18 Responses

1. The leadership of Peleg from the top down have obviously lost touch with reality. Why would ANY business want to cooperate with a bunch of mindless hooligans who ate encouraging violent demonstrations that are disrupting the lives of frum and secular yidden. Can you imagine if Hamas or PA terrorists wanted to lease the convention hall to conduct their own kenos chizuk for a new Intafada…those leading these demonstrations which paralyze the city and threaten national security are not much better.

2. Excellent plan for cancellation!

3. Being that their are Gedolei Hador behind them, I think it would be wise to try to understand where they are coming from before spewing out our hatred for them. The facts are that this is not the first time that gedolei hador have said to protest in public places knowing full well that this would inconvenience a lot of people. In a Teshuva written by Rav Elyashiv (printed in Kovetz Teshuvos) he strongly supported the illegal demonstrations against a theater that opened on shabbos in Petach Tikva, the demonstrations went on for two years with a lot of violence I remmember the Jewish Observer reporting on the demonstrations, there was a picture there of the Rav of Petach Tikva R’ Boruch Shimon Sollomon being arrested by the police I’m sure we would all have been say “chillul Hashem” “Gezel” “violence” etc. but it seems Rav Elyashiv didn’t feel that way (maybe because the street is a rishus harobbim and if the torah feels there is a need to protest than that is the right of the rabbim to protest just like all the funerals in yerushalayim for the past 70 years were not done with permits and probably caused people to miss flights, ambulances to be delayed and the like and no one ever said that you can’t walk with the niftar in the street). Obviosly these gedolim feel that there is a very big danger to yiddishkeit in the draft law passed by the governmant and therefore they say to protest. I spoke to a a very big talmid chacham who has been mekarev thousands of people to yiddishkeit about this topic and he told me that we have to realize that our feelings about what is going on may not be coming from such a great level of love for Hashem and care that his name not be desecrated but rather it may be coming from a lack of realization of the severity of yiddishkeit being threatened and a lack of beleif in the words of chazal “geater is the one who causes another to sin than the one who kills him” and only a gadol – who has that apppreciation for both chillul hashem and the severity of yiddishkeit being threatened – can really decide on such a topic. The fact that there have been cases of injury is very sad but can people not protest when they feel they are being religiously persecuted because police may act violently and that may cause someone (probably not an innocent bystander) to get injured. The fact is that from the many protests there was very little reported vioelence and if we judge the peleg by those few people, we are being no different than the antisemites whom we’ve been dealing with for thousands of

4. However I am old enough to remember numerous demonstrations in the 70’s to free soviet Jewry, and oddly enough the Gedolim in those days were opposed to these demonstrations.

5. #3 Since there are many Gedolim AGAINST these demonstrations we can surmise…

   “such a great level of love for Hashem and care that his name not be desecrated but rather it may be coming from a lack of realization of the severity of yiddishkeit being threatened and a lack of beleif in the words of chazal “geater is the one who causes another to sin than the one who kills him” and only a gadol – who has that apppreciation for both chillul hashem and the severity of yiddishkeit being threatened – can really decide on such a topic”.

   Please read about the demonstrations in Petach Tikveh against the movie theatres,& you will see that the people were not blocking intersections, stopping emergency vehicles, causing destruction to Egged buses, inconveniencing hundreds, thousands of people.

   Since we are aware that enlisting and asking for an exemption has worked for the CHaredi kehilla for the last almost 70 years and still works today. No one is threatened with SHMAD or any religious persecution.

6. Gadolhadorah,

   Do you really not see a difference between Hamas and HaPeles? Is protests really on the same level as Intifada? Is blocking traffic similar to blowng up buses and stabbing Jews to death?

   I know you’ve been on this forum for many years, and you tend to take a left position on issues, but do you really consider the protestors “mindless hooligans?” You don’t think they are doing it because, at least in their heads, they are protecting the mesoret of yidishkeit of thousands of years?

   I try to at least understand everybody, and I am trying to understand you, and I cannot. Will you explain yourself?

7. Reply to No. 3

   Vey helpful and informative posting. While I don’t agree with your conclusion that these demonstrations are justified under either halacha or civil law, you provide the most rational and coherent effort to justify what is happening that I’ve seen to date. Ultimately, in a civil society, you cannot invoke the beliefs of one segment of the population to disrupt the lives of others on a continuing basis no matter how passionately you adhere to those beliefs and no matter the “gadlus” of the rabbunim who seek to impose their shita on others. EY is and shall remain a society governed by civil laws adopted democratically by a majority of the population with many provisions (kiddushin, gittin, geyrus, etc.) taking into consideration the realities of a “Jewish” state. However, the current tensions resulting form the Peleg’s unilateral efforts to achieve their political agenda on the streets will end badly, not only for Rav Auerbach’s followers but for the chareidi tzibur overall.

8. Face it. No true gedolim back these hooligans.

9. Peleg and their leaders have deviated from what the gedolim have said and done for years. The leaders should be incarcerated and their yeshivot should be shut down!

   This is NOT the derech of the Torah that states: “darchaha, darchei naim v’kal nesevoseha shalom” – all the paths of the Torah are pleasant and its paths lead to peace!

10. That should be the first step, now you have to stop all the funding towards them, and anyone who funds them should be boycotted, get them at the wallet.

11. I’m curious if Gadolhadora is equally incensed about Israel Broadcast Authority employees blocking the streets during their violent demo a few days ago. Or the violent demo protesting delays in moving the ammonia storage tanks in Haifa. Items that were, of course, not reported on YWN, because only news relevant to the Chareidi yeshiva world gets reported here. How could we expect someone not living in E.Y. to know about such things? Just as long at they continue providing their learned, balanced opinions on what the frum Jews are doing or not doing in E.Y. Which YWN obediently publishes as if it’s Torah mi’Sinai.

    Moderators Note: For the sake of honesty….the protest against the Haifa Ammonia Tanks were in fact published by YWN. Multiple postings. But that won’t stop you from distorting the facts. Carry on.

12. The expression “Gedolei HaDor” is thrown about wildly these days. How many Gedolei HaDor are there? Who decides who is a Gadol HaDor? With the greatest respect to Rav Shmuel Orbach, his saintly father was a universally acknowledged Gadol. His son is certainly not so universally respected. The Peleg children are causing untold losses to thousands of people. I was delayed getting to a chassuna last week for 40 minutes by a Peleg protest. That is 40 minutes of time that was stolen from me; time I could have spent learning. What mechila is there for this? Come Yom Kippur all these children are going to be in a very difficult position. We are not talking here about Chillul Shabbos, an issur d’oraisa, but people refusing to apply for a benefit, i.e. an exemption from the requirement to serve in the army. If you apply and qualify, you get the exemption, if not, not. That is not in any way the same as public chillul Shabbos r”l.

13. So they want to protest indoors, but aren’t allowed to?

    Hmmm.

    And whatever you think of the actions of the Peleg protestors, likening them to Hamas as GodolHadorah did is as bad as calling police Nazis, and women shiksas.

14. The Peleg HaYerushalmi who have enough yeshiva bochurim and young men who are in draft age and do not enlist to the IDF offices and can fill up an entire Jerusalem Convention Hall auditorium proves that they are not only a few dozen men but are bli ayin hara a huge crowd of thousands of men and therefore deserve equal rights like the Peleg HaBnei Braki. In short, the Pele HaYerushalmi are not a minority!

15. הישיבה המאתיים-ושלושים-וארבע של הכנסת השלוש-עשרה
    יום שני, י”ח בתמוז התשנ”ד (‎27 ביוני ‎1994)
    ירושלים, הכנסת, שעה ‎01:16
    ב. דברי פרידה של חבר הכנסת מנחם פרוש

    במערכה נגד גיוס בנות ושירות לאומי שלח לי הגאון חזון איש על דש מעטפה: “ר’
    מנחם, איהר זאלט פלוטעווען” – תעשה דברים לא שגרתיים. הוראה זו מילאתי אז, ותמיד היתה זו ההכוונה, בכל המערכות.

16. Dear Moderator: for the sake of honesty, I honestly didn’t recall that article from February. I was referring to a demo earlier this week in which some protesters in Haifa got pretty riled up and also blocked streets. That demo went unreported, even though “streets were blocked.”
    This is not the first time the YWN moderator has ‘defended’ the Gadolhadora against one of my postings. I’m getting the feeling that the Gadolhadora must have some serious clout with YWN to deserve this. As long as it doesn’t distort the facts. And as you wrote, carry on.

17. bklynmom
    1.I don’t know where you get your information from, but you can ask anyone who was around by the demonstrations in Petach Tikva against the theater and all over Israel against ‘nituchei meisim’ and many other demonstrations and they will tell you that there was a lot of violence, blocking of roads, inconveniencing of scores of people injuries and more. In the Teshuva I quoted by Rav Elyashiv (printed in קובץ תשובות חלק א’ סימן מ”ד) he writes to a Rav in Petach Tikva who wrote to him that he feels that the demonstrations should be stopped because of the VIOLENCE which they have caused, the HATRED that flares up between Jews due to them and the lack of any good coming out from them, (SOUNDS FAMILIAR?) and Rav Elyashiv responds, imploring him to take back his opposition to the demonstrations and to take part in leading them himself. I heard myself from a participant of the hafganos against ‘nituchei meisim’ that were held in the city of Yafo and were with the endorsement and PARTICIPATION of MARAN HARAV AHARON YEHUDAH LEIB SHTEINMAN SHLIT”A, (I can send you pictures) about the tremendous violence that went on at those demonstrations.
    2. You write “Since we are aware that enlisting and asking for an exemption has worked for the Charedi kehilla for the last almost 70 years and still works today. No one is threatened with SHMAD or any religious persecution.”
    The fact is that 3 years ago when the moatzos gedolei hatorah of Agudas Yisrael, Degel HaTorah and Shas met together, everyone was able to go to the enlistment office like in the past almost 70 years before and as you would surely say, no one was threatened with shmad, and nevertheless all the gedolei yisrael from all the moatzos wrote “אף שבטוחים אנו שנצח ישראל לא ישקר ותלמידי הישיבות והכוללים לא יתגייסו לצבא, לא ייכנעו לפיתויים ועונשים, ולא ישתפו פעולה עם תוכניות הצבא במרכז מיון חרדי ושאר תוכניותיהם. אלא יעמדו איתן על משמרתם להגות בתורתנו הקדושה יומם ולילה. אך בראותנו כבלע את הקודש, בניסיונות בלתי פוסקים של הממשלה והעומד בראשה, לעקור ולקעקע את לימוד התורה, ואת יסודות הדת והאמונה בכל העניינים הנוגעים ליהדות, בכל הדרכים העומדים לרשותם ובראשם הגיוס בכפיה, אנו רואים בדברים אלו הכרזת השלטון על מרד במלכות שמים ועל מלחמת דת, כפי שנעשו ע”י משטרים אפלים בתולדות ההיסטוריה”. The yated Neeman quoted Maran Harav Aharon Leib Shteinman “דהוי גזירת שמד” it seems pretty clear that if there is a law passed with the purpose of reaching “שוויון בנטל” and that according to this law ultimately 70 percent of the chareidim will serve in the army, which is something that – in the eyes of the gedolim – is against their religious beleifs, and the lawmakers state clearly that the only way to bring this about is by having a period of a number of years of הסתגלות in which hundreds of millions of shekel will be spent on funding to convince chareidim – mostly from weak backgrounds – by way of their coming to the enlistment office and other ways, to enlist in the army, the numbers of chareidim in the army will increase year by year until ultimately most of them will be in the army, that is a גזירת שמד as was stated clearly by Gedolim from all spectrum’s of the chareidi society. Saying that right now no one is being forced, is ignoring the whole purpose of the law. The above is very clear to anyone who reads the law that was passed, please read it. The Bagatz is not stupid and they will not except a law that does not achieve “שוויון בנטל” obviously they feel this law is going to do the job, which in the eyes of the gedolim means “גזירת שמד” – Although there may be disagreement about how to go about fighting it-. If the lawmakers would hide their intentions we would have what to argue about but they don’t, they say clearly what their goal is which in the eyes of the Gedolim means:
    גזירת שמד.

18. Dear Moderator I’ll try to translate the hebrew and send again.