Peleg protestors can claim that police come to arrest them and force them into the military. They place them in jail to break their spirits.
והרי גדול המחטיא את האדם יותר מן ההורגו. והבא להורגך השכם להורגו. קל וחומר הבא להחטיאך – השכם להורגו.
More than this. Police treat them with Amalek-type cruelty. Take the mounted police for example. They also treat the yeshiva world as Amalek did and we know this is not a certain people, but a derech, a certain path seen in each generation to take down the spirit of Judaism. Hence, the police have the same din as Amalek.
So then one may kill police or those who dispatch them (Minister of Public Security of Defense Minister) based on two laws; one who comes to kill you and the din of Amalek.
Can any of the honorable readers reject this argument? And if not, it would be justified, Heaven forbid, to shed blood. And so it may be as the struggle continues.
We have long ago passed the red line. It began with throwing stones and objects at police. At recent protests police were injured, some requiring hospitalization. This too is a form of ‘shvichas damim’! As the struggle continues it will continue to escalate. Protests, arrests, more protests, more arrests. The chareidi hate increases as is justification to harm police or their agents and this will become increasingly realistic and tangible.
In response to a previous article I wrote regarding the hard hand that must be used in dealing with those blocking roads and the waning yeshiva image that is being lost, I met with a prominent rav who back the Peleg. I have no intention in increasing the machlokes (and that is why I am not revealing everything that was discussed in our conversation) but I also tried to understand the course of the demonstrations.
In his words, there is a silence today as during the Holocaust and the demonstrations are aimed first and foremost at preventing this silence. The chareidi askanim who are opposed to the Peleg Yerushalmi are causing this silence and are deceiving the Moetzas Gedolei Torah and its rabbonim who agree only b’dieved (retroactively) without a choice to the law which sets quotas for thousands of chareidim [to serve in the IDF]. The Admorim and heads of the various chassidic courts did not know about this and in any case, they encourage followers to go to work but they are not afraid of mishaps in the recruitment process.
However, according to the rav, the process of receiving a draft deferment is built in a sophisticated fashion which effects the weak among the bochrim. It is those who fall into their net. The protest of one million against the draft yielded less results than the cottage cheese protests. This is how they destroy what has been for over fifty years.
To my question, if the shutting down of roads was done in response to direct instructions from HaGaon HaRav Shmuel Auerbach Shlita, the rav responded Rav Auerbach said to make a noise in the entire world, and the committee which is comprised of askanim and young rabbonim, have decided that shutting down roads is a legitimate act.
Will the protests gain momentum as appears will be the case? This may lead to shvichas damim. How does one see Kiddush Hashem and mesirus nefesh in this? This is shvichas damim and nothing more.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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21 Responses
Halbertal offers some veryinformative insights into the forces and emotions that are driving these protests but leaves us with the clear impression that Rav Auerbach is clueless as to the violence being committed in his name. Instead, his very general instructions to “resist” the efforts to conscript yeshiva bochurim for the draft have been distorted into these mindless hafganot which constitute a major chilul hashem. Perhaps if Rav Auerbach went out and observed what is happening in his name there would be an immediate outcry to stop the violence before it C’v results in serious injury or deaths.
Shutting down a road is pure גזל, and a big one…
Totally incomprehensible article.
Emes!!! So what will u do to prevent bloodshed?!?
I reject his argument that the police have the same din as Amalek. Amalek is a certain nation, made up of descendants of that grandson of Esav. How did the police “convert” to join Amalek? “Af al pi she’chatah, Yisroel hu!”
I believe what you meant is “shfichas” as in שפיכת. Not “shvichas” which isn’t a word.
I am not understanding the point of gadol hadorah-Our gedolim are generally not totally inaccessible to the general public. Why can’t someone level headed like Rabbi Halbertal go to Rav Aurbach and just show him the chilul Hasham that is taking place in the streets? Do these wicked askanim really have such a chokehold on Rav Aurbach that they don’t allow anyone to speak to him ?
The whole thing just does not make sense! And why are we not hearing protest against the protesters from the other gedolim who disagree with Rav Aurbach ? Can someone please explain!
there’s one major difference here…everyone still has a choice and that is to not live in the country where they don’t like the laws….where as in Germany you had to escape…the choice here I think is pretty clear stand with the country or leave…if you beleive in your learning and it’s important to you then it should be important enough to leave for….it’s not our country anyways if it was this wouldn’t be happening.
Let them protest and threaten to kill IDF officers outside Rav Auerbach’s home then. Because that’s what they are doing to the Rashi family in RBS. They said Rosh Chodesh Nisan is the perfect day to start again, so we are ready. If the mayor and police won’t do anything, we will. Peacefully, but we will stop them.
This is a very important topic but unfortunately parts of the writing are incoherent. Some of it makes sense but many phrases are confusing and some even seem illogical. It sounds a bit like something translated from another language by Google translate. Considering the important content, it would be worthwhile for someone to rewrite it.
To Rabbi Dov Halbertal – the one point that I, like many others, am not clear on is whether Rav Auerbach, shlita sanctions these forms of disruptive protests or not? From your article it appears he gave to askanim control over how to protest.
Perhaps I am wrong, but I feel this form of protest is counter productive. Instead of trying to garner world sympathy and criticism against the Israeli government it is turning people away in apathy to our struggles to maintain a religious life style free of anti-religious coercion. Even among us Chareidim there is disdain instead of empathy towards these protesters. I think more people would join in the protests if it was handled respectfully protesting peacefully from the sidewalks with sign about anti-religious coercion, etc. Peaceful demonstrations with sizable numbers has an affect, an affect that will bring embarrassment to the Israeli government (which is highly sensitive to world opinion) and thus can result in a backing down of the government and positive reforms instituted.
Do not understand what this article is saying
Is Rav Sheineman not enough?
I wonder what Rav Aurbach Shkita really says and once called HaPeleg to ask with no answer
agree with number 3. who translated this from the original language?
And by defining the police as “Amalek” and thereby justifying violence (or worse, c”v) on them, his words could be seen by the police (don’t assume they aren’t reading this) as a threat and thereby to take even more extreme actions against the demonstrators.
Who is he?
I am impressed with Rav Halbertal signing his name and writing with the respect that he does. However it is very difficult to argue against a man like Rav Aeurbach shlita.
Why dont the Rabonim at the highest level go to speak with him and apprise him of what is going on and challenge him if necessary at their own level. Just as Raboinm have disagreed respectfully for centuries.
To the “not so realisticguy”: Firstly not everyone can leave as most countries wouldn’t offer them asylum. Secondly they protest to protect the weak bochrim who are being intimidated to join the army and drop their yiddishkeit. Drafting bochrim into the army is not a matter of law, it’s a matter of strategy to decimate the growing heimishe community.
First off, very hard to understand wether he considers the police amalek or is just being cynical or I dont know what.
Second, with all due respect to Rav Auerbach, what gives them the right to steal? What gives them the right to risk peoples lives. Do you know how many ambulances are delayed because major arteries in this country are closed due to these protests? I am sorry but they have lost their minds. Whats so hard to get a defferment? Since when did Jews not have to serve in the army? Do you people not learn Tanach? I am sorry but I feel sickened to be a part of the same religion as these so called “frum” Jews.
Can someone clarify from a Halacha view. If they block a public road and I need to pass what can I do.
See B”k daf 28A regarding someone entering my property “לנקוט פזרא וליתיב” רש”י: יקח מקל וישב does the same apply here. Maybe drivers should keep some clubs or paintball guns in their car. I think this is permitted ע”פ הלכה
If you disagree please explain.
@david….countries wouldn’t give asylum? what are you spewing….there are places all around the world they can go and be received….and so can the weak bochurim…living in eretz yisroel inot this day and age is a privilege not a right…it’s only that when Hashem decides it is….so in the meantime choose to stay or go but if you stay then obey….just like the Halachos of following the rules of any other Medina in the world….this does not mean I agree with idf…but it does mean I don’t agree with this way of fighting back…nobody can take your Yiddishkeit from you, only you can do that.
Shvichas Damim?
I think you mean “Shfichas Damim”
The former means to lie down in blood. The latter is to shed blood.
The Wolf
Being that their are Gedolei Hador behind them, I think it would be wise to try to understand where they are coming from before spewing out our hatred for them. The facts are that this is not the first time that gedolei hador have said to protest in public places knowing full well that this would inconvenience a lot of people. In a Teshuva written by Rav Elyashiv (printed in Kovetz Teshuvos) he strongly supported the illegal demonstrations against a theater that opened on shabbos in Petach Tikva, the demonstrations went on for two years with a lot of violence I remmember the Jewish Observer reporting on the demonstrations, there was a picture there of the Rav of Petach Tikva R’ Boruch Shimon Sollomon being arrested by the police I’m sure we would all have been say “chillul Hashem” “Gezel” “violence” etc. but it seems Rav Elyashiv didn’t feel that way (maybe because the street is a rishus harobbim and if the torah feels there is a need to protest than that is the right of the rabbim to protest just like all the funerals in yerushalayim for the past 70 years were not done with permits and probably caused people to miss flights, ambulances to be delayed and the like and no one ever said that you can’t walk with the niftar in the street). Obviosly these gedolim feel that there is a very big danger to yiddishkeit in the draft law passed by the governmant and therefore they say to protest. I spoke to a a very big talmid chacham who has been mekarev thousands of people to yiddishkeit about this topic and he told me that we have to realize that our feelings about what is going on may not be coming from such a great level of love for Hashem and care that his name not be desecrated but rather it may be coming from a lack of realization of the severity of yiddishkeit being threatened and a lack of beleif in the words of chazal “geater is the one who causes another to sin than the one who kills him” and only a gadol – who has that apppreciation for both chillul hashem and the severity of yiddishkeit being threatened – can really decide on such a topic. The fact that there have been cases of injury is very sad but can people not protest when they feel they are being religiously persecuted because police may act violently and that may cause someone (probably not an innocent bystander) to get injured. The fact is that from the many protests there was very little reported vioelence and if we judge the peleg by those few people, we are being no different than the antisemites whom we’ve been dealing with for thousands of years.