Israeli officials said they would enforce abatement measures against increasingly aggressive panhandlers at the Kosel. In 2005, Israeli Attorney General Menahem Mazuz told Kosel Rov, Rabbi Shmuel Rabinovitch to act against beggars employing violent means of panhandling.
The ruling took effect Thursday to deter beggars from clogging the way to the Kosel and duping visitors into paying admission to the holy site, the Jerusalem Post reported Thursday.
“They really went overboard and became brutal,” Rabinovitch said in the Post. “It pains me that we have come to this.”
Visitors to the Western Wall have complained for years that it is nearly impossible to approach the site without beggars confronting them, often assaulting visitors for contributing too little.
A spokesmen for the police department said they would remove beggars from the holy site.
(Source: Associated Press)
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41 Responses
I always found as an american visitor that I couldn’t daven a normal shmoneh esray without being shtupped by collectors.
its about time to remove beggers from the kosel if they actully become aggresive when begging!!!
dont you think “schnorrer” is a derogatory term? its no better than the n- word.
next time try the more politically correct term of solicitor please.
How are they going to distinguish between a chasid collecting for a certain need and a beggar, both of which could be legitimate tzedakah causes?
The Koisel will never be the same.
I think it is sad that people feel this way instead of viewing it as an opportunity to do a mitzvah you should be thankful you don’t have to come to that.Now if they could get rid of the photographers then you could actually Daven without having someone stick a camera in your face
hey biggest anav- isnt “shtupped” an off-color term?
I don’t know what the solution to the problem is, but I do feel,
“יותר מהעשיר עושה לעני, העני עושה לעשיר”
I am very happy to give some tzedakkah before I daven at the kosel. (“Hashem, I am helping to take care of your children, please take care of me.”)
While I do agree there is a problem with the way tzedakkah is collected at the kosel, I am usually very happy to get a ברכת הדיוט from the women I give tzedakkah to.
So I don’t have a solution to the issue at hand, but I think that it is WE who are losing out at the zechus.
EVAIRY GORERES EVAIRY.in normel circumstaincis before you go daven its a big inyan to give tzdoka but when you go the kosl you given chizuk for the ZIONIM so then you dont have the gefil to give zedoka
Why can’t legitimate people collecting for legitimate cause be given “certification ” like they are in Baltimore, 5 towns etc. I am asking this question seriously does anyone know the answer ?
Something MUST be done to stop the harrassing that goes on there. Kiruv groups are now hesitant to bring kids to the Kosel for fear of the huge turnoff by beggars. Many have switched to bringing groups at night when there are less beggars.
The Kosel has the potential to be THE biggest emotional effect on a Yid and I walk away feeling digusted because I was yelled at for not giving enough or because some guy is collecting for his ticket to Uman.
P.S.
I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS ONE
L’havdil do the Arabs allow this to occur on Har Habayis ?
If not then we should learn from them. It is an issue of Covod Hamakom. We are in favor of Tzedakah but please some respect for where you are. Same goes for a shul.
to Harrys. Those “zionim” soldiers are protecting you so that you can daven and give tzedakah at the kosel.
Mabey they should give out the blue Ishur letters from Lakewood Vaad.
not a very charitable bunch, are we tonight? It should be the worst distraction for davening and for the kosel to have aniyim nebach who have to collect for a living – let’s be mechazek our tefilloth so that this remains our worst problem!
Just learned it, Kesuvos 68A, Rav Elazar says,
let’s show gratitude to the phoneys (shnorers), were it not for them we would be Chot’im everyday.
for some reason this does not sit well with me.
the proper word is meshulach, not schnorer, and definetely not a soliciter. he is sent by H-shem who gave him this test, this matzav of having to go and collect to support his family. by having them thrown out will only cause for them to stream the streets before entering the kosel. we definetely shouldnt feel in any way a sense of joy, for not having to give more tzedaka. especially in these times in israel we’re they continue to slash funding from yeshivos and families. tzedake tatzil mimaves!
For those that want to give before davening, there is an easy solution: Put up a bunch of locked pushkas against a wall or something solid as they have in mnay shuls all over the world. Then people can give to their choice and still give at the Kosel before or after davening.
It is the bothering and attitiude of some of these people that caused this law. Then due to these rotten apples, the good ones have to suffer.
It as we saw in the Daf Yomi this past week – that one stopped giving and said that we now have an excuse not to give – a few bads one are ruinig for the others.
I’ve been at the Kosel HaMaravi almost daily for about 12 years and never saw ‘beggars’ ‘clogging the way to the Kosel’.(except maybe beggars and Gabbaei Tzedaka onErev Yom Kippur).YW editor should know better even if that is the way the Associated Press writes.-This goe sfor all their news in general.
The Russian Police at the Kosel don’t differentiate between low lifes duping people to pay to come to the Kosel and Gabbaei Tzedaka.
The Israeli officials are NOT interested in making the Kosel a better place for Davening rather to stop Tzedaka and show their control over the area and the Yidden who come to Daven there.
Many of the beggars at the kotel are not aniyim.They average several hundred dollars per day.They do not have to work because well intentioned people give them their precious charity money which should go to real aniyim.You have to find out who the real aniyim are.Kol haposayach yad nosnim is only a halacha on Purim
It is disappointing that, whats considered a Frum news source, Yeshiva World, would use such a term as “shnorer”. There is no question that it is demeaning and none of us are aware of the troubles and hardships many of these people face.
I often daven at the Kosel, I live in Israel, and at times it can be disturbing. However, I find if one truly wants to have kavanah he will not be distracted. Why not think of it as a reminder as to just how much most of us are blessed with.
This article is missing information. The problem does not lie with the standard schnorrers. As the J post article itself said that the problem lies within an evergrowing group of people that started coming from all over the country, were getting very violent at times.
They are not looking to stop the same little old men who have been there for years.
lets be honest.on the 1 hand we need to be ery grateful for not being in this position of need on the other hand when some one approaches you that “today” his child is becoming bar mitzva and needs tefilin do you really believe it?is this when he started collecting that he claims to need everything. Did no one anywhere else along the way give him anything or is he perhaps not bein honest? do i have to be put on a guilt trip at the kosel by someone who is quirte possiblt dishonest when i wanted to visit the kosel for an uplift.
SIMPLY CREATE AN AREA WHERE THE NEEDY CAN SIT AND THOSE WHO WISH TO GIVE CAN TAKE A FEW STEPS OUT OF THEIR WAY AND DO SO. JUST TO THE LEFT OF THE ENTRANCE IS A GOOD SPOT.
TO ESTHERK. That is the problem you giving thanks for pepole who are APIKORSIM thay don’t beleve in HASCHAM. Let me ask you when you dave schmona asreh when you come to the berocha Velamalschnim & you say “vechol haminim krega yovede the fact that means all this pepole who you think thay protceting you so how can you go to a place like that all this ZIONIM bringing all the “tzoras”.look on on hand you give him chizuk & on the other hand you are mispalel that he should schtarb on tjhe spot . Remember you are not mispalel that he should do tschuva . So next time when you want to go daven go in a reg. Schul & dave to haschem
They are not removing all the beggars from the kosel- only violent ones. We will all be able to now daven properly and give tzedaka to normal schnorrors.
As far as the not legitimate schnorrers go, What percentage of them are not real? 15%? 20%? In business you would take a 15 – 20% risk. So why wouldn’t you take the same risk by giving tzedakah. The ‘return’ on you risk/investment is much greater than a monetary return.
I am more likely to give to someone who is polite and non aggressive. if they sit holding out a hand or a cup and don’t accost you, then I don’t think they should be banned from the kosel.
The arrogance that reek from some of these comments are truly stifeling!
Next time your approached for Tzedakah, and its starts to annoy, just remember ITS ALWAYS BETTER TO GIVE, THEN TO HAVE TO TAKE!!!
Also, what give any of you the right to allude to Someone as a SHNORRER,??
Its Hashem’s will for YOU to be who YOU are and for others to be in a position of need. However, do not forget that a RICH MAN can become a beggar and vice versa!! (Mi Yeoshir, umi Yeoni,,,)
A little story Rav Avrom Twersky once said in a shiur he gave;
There was once a shoemaker, a very poor man who with G-d’s help becomevery wealthy.
When his eldest daughter got married, he made the most austentacious wedding with all the trimmings.
Unfortunately, his newly found wealth, didnt ‘suit’ everyone to the point where someone FELT A NEED to refresh his memory. THAT somebody interupted the chuppah, ran down the aisle
with a pair of shoes and started to cry out to the Mechutan, ‘Please fix my shoes’ , reminding him that he was once just a shoemaker,,,,
I have never been asked without due respect, and if we can contribute, what is the big deal, we are our brothers keeper or just by standers without any kiskes and Abraham Oveinu, never complained but Jews are complaining,on the road to Hell in the Wagon to Aushwitz I pledged that I would help anyone in need and share everything and since returning from Hell, I have done so,if only those claiming to be sincere yiden, should be more generous, we are only temporary recipient of anything and everything, i only spoke a bit of German and I told Dr Mengele after he sent me to the gas chamber that he was mistaken, he looked at me as if I was from another planet and he yelled change side.
Any time, anyone ask me for help i will turn around, treat them with respect and share what ever I can, and sure enough no one is shoving me.
So please let anyone there alone, and give Tzedaka – Sure if the latest figures that 60% of all orthodox jews in Israel have no employment, we need to help more, but if we can give to United Way, and so many other things why not start to help our own people. in the days of the Temple no one would have removed anyone from the Temple.
Have a good hoseh of Kislev.
#23 – I don’t have the source in front of me, but I am quite sure that the Halcha is that whenever anyone asks for tzedaka you are not allowed to turn them away empty handed.
We must all be careful to retain the inborn sensitivity that every Yid has toward another, and not to dull it by decrying frauds and fakers. Better that we should give a couple of dollars to unworthy people than stop feeling the pain of other Yidden.
Kol Tuv and Gut chodesh
ANSWER TO HARRY S (#29). When I get to v’lamalshinim, I think about Harry and his neturei karta buddies. People like that give chizuk to our enemies who would kill every Jew in eretz yisrael. It is the brave chayalim, whether frum or not, who are moser nefesh to protect us.
My nephew is currently in a fighting unit in the IDF. He regularly speaks to his rosh yeshiva to solve the challenges facing a frum Jew in the army. His performs a great kiddush haShem, and the nonfrum soldiers in his unit have learned to respect his devotion to mitzvos and avodas haShem, while they all perform the greatest mitzvah of protecting fellow Jews.
I will continue to daven for his (and his friends’) success and safety. Harry S will continue to daven for their harm (or in Harry’s words “that he should schtarb on the spot”). I have complete emunah that haShem knows how to distinguish between the two types of tefilah.
2 things that I heard on tapes. If memory serves correctly, the first was by Rabbi Reisman and the second by Rabbi M.M. Weiss
1) when we doven and we get disturbed by the collectors, at least during that time period, we have an excuse for not having proper kavana
2) if it wasn’t for the phony collectors, we would have no excuse for having neglected to give to a person truly in need. — I think that this was from a story in the Gemara (I do not remember the exact source).
Wishing all a good Chodesh and may we see B’soros Tovos, by all Yidden.
The Bostoner Rebbe, Shlita, poskened over ten years ago that people should avoid giving these collectors by the Kosel. He wrote that there are many non-frum Jews visiting the Kosel and they are about to experience an emotional and spiritually uplifting event that could (and has often has) lead to them becoming frum. But instead the impression they get is ruined as they are assaulted and abused.
Collectors are not putter from keeping halachos and treating people with derech eretz. The best thing would be if they would in fact behave properly but as they can’t they give Rav Rabinovitch no choice. And he is doing the right thing.
Truthfully, if everyone following the Rebbe’s posak and only give those collectors that did not disturb or assault people maybe it would encourage more collectors to behave.
#37. I beg to differ. There is no such halacha when an unknown person approaches you for money.
The only exception is one day a year; Purim.
TO (38) thae fact of the matter is that our CHACHUMIM had create the tfilah “VLAMALSHINIM” against pepole who are not beliving in haschem that’s excetly what the zionim are thay say KOCHI VEOZEM YODI & thay are bringing all the anti semetisim so only I want to ask you again how can you say that thay are protecting you when you are davning & you ask haschem that thay should “KREGA YOVEDI & MEHARO YIKORISE
#41 – see YD 249:4 and Rema there that you are not allowed to turn away an Ani who asks for help empty handed.
For all you may know all these “innocent beggars” may actually be arabs collecting money due to the loss of a family member in a suicide attack!
White some or most of the schnorors are legit I know there is one Arab woman who collects and the Kosel and appears as a Jewish frum woman. Secondly I told a few schnorors at the Kosel when I was there this past February that I have no money for myself and they still told me I did not give them enough money. Infact one person who claimed he was a rebbe in one of the yeshivos close to the kosel said if I give him $10 u.s. dollars I will be married by Shavuos well shavuos came and it’s now Novenber 11, 2007 and I am still not engaged or married therefore I think that person is a faker because if he was real I would have been married by Shavuos.
EVAIRY GORERES EVAIRY.in normel circumstaincis before you go daven its a big inyan to give tzdoka but when you go the kosl you given chizuk for the ZIONIM so then you dont have the gefil to give zedoka
Comment by harrys — November 10, 2007 @ 10:41 pm
R E P L Y
Those would be the “ZIONIM” who captured the Kotel in 1967 and built the plaza, who guard it and maintain it right? Are those the ones you mean?
Why do we say “Ahrei” before Shacharis, Mincha, and Slichos?
Because we are about the BEG the Aibishter for a favor we do not deserve. We honestly do not deserve to be forgiven for the poor level of teshuva we are doing. Are we REALLY convinced will will not do it again? NO!. So, by the DIN, Hashem does not need to forigive us.
But, in Ashrei, we concentrate on 2 pesukim. The first we all know, but I will talk about the second. “TZADIK Hashem bechol diruchov, V’Chusid b’chol maasav.”
We are saying to Him. “I know I do not deserve for You to even listen to these pleas from me. I am a sinner whose repentance is poor at best. But, YOU, Hashem are a Tzadik, and a Chosid, and “Lididach Dina Hacha”… to YOU, Hashem, because you are a Tzadik and Chosid, You MUST go lifnim meshuras hadin, and listen to our pleas and grant our wishes that we beg of You.”
We come to Him as shnorrers, begging for Him to listen to us.
I for one will give each schnorrer I see first. ANYONE who lowers himself to begging is either financially needed, or emotionally damaged and therefore also needy.
I certainly do not wish to turn my back on a Shnorrer, and they turn my face to the wall, either the one in Eretz Yisroel, or the wall in my shul, and go schnorring to Him.
When I booked my chasuna hall 3 years ago, I told the caterer, that if I hear that any schnorer was “discouraged” from coming in to beg, I would not pay the catering bill. That was my written t’nei in the contract.
Please, don’t any of you take away from me, MY mitzvah of giving to any Jewish shnorrer. I need the credits in my account when I go begging myself. For, I am nothing but a schnorrer going before Him daily, asking Him, over and over again, making the same promises I made last week…..
Do we doubt the honesty of the schnorrer? How honest are we when we schnorr to Hashem? When we say, Slach Luni Uvini Ki Chutuni, M’Chal Luni Malkeini…. and we are supposed to REALLY mean that we will not do it again.
Please Hashem, treat me better that we are treating these schnorrers.
Go lifnim mishuras hadin, and listen to my pleadings, even when they are defective and pathetic. Grant me the forgiveness I do not deserve, and heal those whom I love, and all of klall yisroel.
Why? Because YOU are a Tzadik, and a Chossid, and L’Didach Dina Huchi.
To YOU the Din is that as a Tzadik You Must listen and forgive.
(Yes, I posted this elsewhere first.)