The secular media has jumped a discussion that took place in the Knesset Finance Committee on Tuesday (6 Tishrei) headed by MK Moshe Gafne. Committee members discussed the Trachtenberg Report’s recommendations for social-economic change. The media reported that in addition, they also discussed budgetary matters addressing NIS hundreds of millions, including NIS 2 million, allocated budgetary funds to the chareidi sector, to avreichim. It is the last topic that made the news, once again implying chareidim take without giving.
Gafne appears to have had his fill, telling the media on Wednesday (7 Tishrei) that funding for many causes were discussed at the meeting, including for Yehuda & Shomron, higher education and more, yet the media manages to find the NIS 2 million allocated to chareidim to make an item. He decried the constant hounding of the chareidi tzibur, adding “maybe we should just throw everyone in the sea”.
He explained that committee members sat and fulfilled the committee’s responsibilities, allocating funds for a wide array of organizations, cause, government offices and so-forth, but only the allocation to chareidim is newsworthy.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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15 Responses
He shouldn’t give them ideas….
when people contribute they get back….
you cant invest if you dont have money…..
if they want money back then they need to put money in….. if they do NOT put money in then the government will go bankrupt….
what happened to work hard and make money?
we all know the israeli economy is doing amazing and stood out when world fell… however charidim and arabs fell more in debt… if the chariedim wish to excel like the dati leumi and secular they can very easily…. they need to remember that work is not a 4 letter word!
Ramat shilo how many hours do you think your bussines along with the rest of israel would function if all the chareidim toiling in torah stopped doing so?
Even Parogh in Egypt understood the value of the priestly caste studying, and hence shevet Levi was exempt….
To comment #2. to express mt thoughts mildly I would like to say, learning torah ‘GIVES’ into the economy more than anything else. A true baal emuna believes that. for further refrences check uot the story in the bible about the mun.
I’m going to go with #2. A balance of torah and work is ideal. Learning 100% without working at all can lead oneself into complete poverty, marital problems, and hardship. It’s hard to say just torah gives more to an economy than anything else… very hard to picture.
to #5, true work and learning is ideal to most people (according to r’ yishmael see Berachos 35b) but by reading many blogs an this and other jewish website I see lots of am aratzos (and apikorsis) from people who don’t believe talmud torah kneged kulom and talmiday chachomim marbim shalom baolam. people should only realize the importance the torah is to the world (and yes, to the economy) and people should stop comments that border on apikorsus then the world will be a better place
#3,4,6, it is Chillul HaShem of major proportions — to try to keep everybody in kollel on government money in the face of the open and bitter resentment of the majority of the country.
there is NOTHING wrong with working… one can live a very balanced life learning and working… god doesnt expect us to learn all day… he expects us to work and learn and be good people…. taking advantage of others is wrong and causes “anti chariedi sentiment” and chilul hashem
Whether you understand the importance of limud hatorah or not, this idea that Chareidim live of the government is simply not true. The Kollel stipend is tiny — both objectively per family and as a proportion of the budget (compared to for example funding for cultural institutions, sports arenas, etc. which the chareidim as a group generally do not use). Israel does not have welfare programs similar to food stamps, WIC, low-income housing assistance, medicare, etc. So the only government money these families are getting is the small Kollel sitpend as well as the child subsidies that are paid through Bituach Leumi for everyone regardless of income. Health insurance also works on a sliding scale, so they are paying less then others with higher incomes for that — although in the U.S. a very low-income family gets free health insurance, which doesn’t exist here. (A kollel family in the tri-state area could probably be eligible for more government funding simply due to their low-income and the extensive U.S. welfare system then a kollel family gets from the Israeli government.)
Additionally most Charedi WOMEN work! So a vast majority of Kollel households have a working adult, albeit often at low salaries as teachers, secretaries, babysitters, etc. These women pay income tax like everyone else (again, the Israeli tax code is very different then the U.S., and even low income earners pay taxes.) Israel also has a VAT system of taxes, which means that consumer goods are taxed at a very high rate, and Chareidim with their larger families are obviously paying their fair share in VAT.
I can go on — most Chareidi families send their sons to Chadarim which recieve much less government money then mamad schools, and pay a higher rate of tuition, thereby taking less then if they would be sending to schools completely funded by the government. . .
The point is that yes, some government money goes to help support those learning in Kollel. But the main way people survive here in Kollel is a combination of the wife’s income, living very simply, and private tzedakah. (And of course not paying rent because the parents buy an apartment, which is obviously a different discussion!) To say people are staying in Kollel “on government money” is extremely inaccurate.
#5 — Do those living in Kollel have higher rates of marital problems? I’ve never heard of any studies indicating that, and my very unscientific observations do not seem to show that in any way. (Divorce rates are actually lower among “chareidim”, although there are other factors that may contribute to that.)
Number 7 you don’t know what you are talking about my friend. First the number of people in Kollel is minute, Second if everybody was in Kollel Moshiach would come and the goyim would support them. Third, because of people sitting and learning, yeshivas, and seminaries monies flow into Eretz Yisrael from other countries by parents, grandparents, friends, relatives, or collections by the Yeshivas. Fourth, Hebrew University is getting much money from schnorring and from the Israeli government plus after they are educated there they go outside of Israel to make money; while religious Jews stay. Fifth religious Jew and kollels spend lots of money in Israel, food, appliances, cars, etc etc. Stop the Kollel bashing once and for all
If one used American-style definitions, then most people learning in kollel would be considered employed. In the US teachers are considered part of the work force but in Israel that is not the case if they are working for yeshivos. Similarly, a graduate student (typically in mid to late 20s, often married) who is on a fellowship that pays more than tuition, and often has duties in addition to study such as assisting in the teaching of younger students, is also considered employed. Many kollel students engage in income producing activities “on the side”. The charge that the Hareidim are “parasites” is pure nonsense.
Of course, they might be engaged in massive tax evasion but in general Israelis are known for taking their tax system with a “grain of salt” (except for American immigrants, of course).
RS- you again come put your antichareidi feelings on display. i understand that you love to show off your infallible logic, but the gedolsi yisroel say otherwise. Get a grip.
#12 – you have no clue what you are talking about…making up norish….. besides you are missing a critical point… people who are in college in the states or here will eventually join the workforce and make money and contribute to society.. In israel – more so than USA, without an education, without a niche no one will touch you… there is no reason to, people who went to the army, people who went to college have alot more to give nevermind being more disciplined and generally are “not trying to beat the system”
#13… not anti chariedi @ all.. i am realistic… i am involved in many tzedakas here and i see reality.. i see who is coming and i see the despair in peoples eyes when they go for job interviews and are offered 22NIS an hr… people come to my door daily and they are 30-35 years old and should be in their prime but they are begging… they waited 10 years to start working to avoid army and then they wake up with 5 kids and a wife and no money and they need help…they cant go to school because they need to work—however without an education they are getting min wage…catch 22….
#11, the nember of E.Y. people in kollel is minimal? Which planet are you from? I never meant to diminish the greatness of Talmud Torah, but you have to worry how things look to the outsiders!!! The bottom line is men do not work there and the government has to keep them afloat!