CNN is reporting that last weeks incident (reported HERE on YW) in which Israeli planes reportedly invaded Syrian airspace, was actually an attack on Iranian weapons transferred to Syria. According to CNN, the incident involved an aerial operation that also included ground forces that were meant to mark targets or inspect the damage caused by the attack.
It was also reported that the operation left “a great hole in the ground” in the Syrian desert. The report was based mainly on sources in the American government and CNN said that Israel was satisfied with the operation’s results.
The report said Israel apparently targeted a type of weapon transferred through Syria to Hizbullah from Iran.
Join the official YWN WhatsApp status
46 Responses
kein yirbu
Amen.
why didnt they bomb damascus
There is no yeshua fortcoming from Tzahal or any of the non frum so called leadership in Israel. Our only hope and salvation is Hashem Yisborach.
Tzoorba,
Maybe you should stand in traffic, Hakol Bidei Shomayim, HKB’H allows human beings to do and accomplish things as we see from what the Reshoim Gemurim did on 9/11. We may not believe in the State of Israel, and we know that our only nitzchiusdike hatzoloh will come from HKB’H, but these tinokos shenishbu who are enlisted in the Tzahal are well trained, well informed and capabale of carrying out strategic military operations with syiata dishmaya in the zechus of all the ehrliche yidden in Eretz Yisroel.
i think the IDF should let us know of their secret missions before they go so we can Daven that they should be Matzliach!
Tzoorba, just like Hashem is the Rofeh Kol Basar, yet we still visit His Shluchim – the doctors, so too, Hashem is the Lochaim Milchama for Klall Yisroel, but the Israeli soldiers are His Shluchim. We owe them our Tefilos and Hakoras Hatov, not, CH”V, our disdain.
this is what tzoorba said”
“Our only hope and salvation is Hashem Yisborach.”
those of you who jumped on her should be ashamed
Responses 5-9, you are all missing the point. It’s not that we’re against the IDF because we want only Hashem to protect the medinah in some supernatural way. We’re against the IDF and the medinah because the entire enterprise is a cause of danger to Yidden, not protection. The fact that they do a little to stop the danger is overshadowed by the fact that they cause the whole danger in the first place. If all Jews would be living now in exile in various non-Jewish countries around the world as they were for 1900 years, they would not be in this face-off with Syria, Iran etc.
To use Eliezer’s analogy of the doctor, what would we say if someone took a busload of Jews and deliberately drove them into the middle of a tornado or some other disaster zone, and then said, “Look, I brought along a doctor to treat the wounded!” And what if it wasn’t just a busload of Jews, but 5.4 MILLION JEWS? Rachmana Litzlan.
Don’t believe everything you read in the media (YW excepted, of course).
Is Tzoorba wrong? Is our Yeshuah, hope, and salvation (the exact quantities Tzoorba was talking about) going to come from the idf?
G-d helps those who help themselves.
just curious, by a show of hands, how many of you on YW will daven for the saftey of the yiden in the IDF that they have a safe year?
whether you like it or not they are yiden!
Hersh said: “If all Jews would be living now in exile in various non-Jewish countries around the world as they were for 1900 years, they would not be in this face-off with Syria, Iran etc.”
Those 2000 years worked our really well and safely for us (sarcasm). Learn a little history.
hersh, what exactly do you propose ? Should the Israeli government hand over power to th PA and let the murderous thugs have the access to kill as many jews as possible ? Yes , all gedolim were opposed to the founding of the state of Israel. But now that it is a country and we all know too well that the arabs want us dead and will live up to that commitment when ever they have a slight chance of doing so.
So the IDF is protecting us from that threat. Which godol today will recommend Hamas takes over control and all jews live under hamas?
You say ” if all jews live in various contries we will not be facing off with syria” . Well I have some news for you, we would probably be facing off against pogroms , inquisitions, and everything in between.So I would pick facing off with Syria.
#13 Hersh, I know where you are coming from, but being in exile never saved a Yid from harm. Chmielniki, Torquemada, Hitler and others ymach shmom vzichrom were pleased that the Jews were within their reach. SO saying that if only we hadn’t followed the path of the ikvesoh demeshicho and established a Jewish presence in Eretz Yisroel would have avoided the danger is palpably irresponsible. For better or for worse there is a jewish State. We need to have as much Hashpo’oh on it as we can. We are not a deterministic, fatalistic religion. leave that to the Calvinists. We just read in the parsha ‘lo Bashomayim hee.’ We have a Torah to apply to life, not to be a signpost for leaving well enough alone, and if there’s a pogrom, oh well.
Finally, If Hakodosh Boruch Hu didn’t have a place for the Medinah and Tzahal in his great plan, following your deterministic view, they would not exist. Since they do, they must serve His purpose in ways only he knows. And so they should preserve and defend us, and in so doing, they should be preserved and defended and given victory.
Hersh:
I just so happens that the 600,000 Jews living in Eretz Yisroel during the Shoah were saved. Jews cannot wwear their Yarmulkas on the streets of Paris. England is getting more anti semitic by the day in addition to which they totally expelled us in 1290. So, where has it been safer? Also, by your logic, perhaps we should never have been in EY in the first place during the first and second Beis Hamikdosh so that the Romans and Babylonians would have no reason to attack us.
To Mikedrezz #20:
“Yes , all gedolim were opposed to the founding of the state of Israel.”
So sorry but incorrect, unless, of course, by virtue of supporting the founding of the state makes one ipso facto “ois gadol”, which, of course, you may indeed believe.
The indesputable fact is that today living in the ”medina” is (at least one of) the most UNSAFE place in the world for a JEW to live.
yichudik: No raye. Otherwise your logic would dictate that Hashem had a place for Nazi Germany in his grand plan.
sane: And they survived in Eretz Yisroel during the holocaust WITHOUT the State.
re: 22 and 23:
Yichsdik: I think you missed the point. While being in exile may never have saved a Jew from harm, Hashem put us there and has not, Ch”V, forgotten us. Since the gedolim were against the medinah, and as 50+ years of Zionist treachery and tragedy have made quite clear, establishing the mediinah was clearly the wrong thing to do. Saying that if it exists that it is therefore in Hashem’s plan is questionable, at best. True, Hashem allowed it to happen. He also allowed 9 Av and all of its tragedies to happen. Does that mean that it was the correct thing to happen? Only because we have bechira, and those who wanted the State chose to make it happen. Hashem never said that it was His will that such a tragedy take place.
Now that the state is in existence and the political reality is what it is, the practicalities have changed as, to use a previous poster’s analogy, the Zionists have already driven their bus into their self-made tornado, and so we have no choice but to pray that their “doctors” (IDF) can do their thing and protect the occupants from getting, G-d forbid, hurt. This does not necessarily mean that they should or should not get extra tefilos – that’s up to one’s own Rov.
Sane: It just so happens that because of Zionist treachery, a similar number (more, really) were NOT saved in Europe (lookup Israel’s Kastner Affair in your favorite online reference). It also happens that the Jews living in Arab countries were doing just fine during the Shoah, too.
Nobody said you have to live in England or France or anywhere else in particular, and nor does that make Israel a safe(r) place. Israel has never known a day of peace in its life. Doesn’t sound to me like a utopian haven for Jews.
If the Zionists hadn’t done their thing, you could also live in Algiers, Tunis, Morocco or Yemen without fear of crusades, inquisitions, and the like. Isn’t it interesting how the Yemenite Jews were able to keep their mesorah all the way from Bayis Sheni? I’m sure they were ecstatic to finally be able to join the Zionist paradise and give up their security and their religion. Great idea, right?
There is no need for (indeed, there is an express aversion to) artificial invented “solutions” when Hashem’s solution of trusting in Him and waiting for His ultimate salvation is what He has told us to do. Zionism has been a major disaster since well before 1948.
Your comment about “by your logic, maybe we should never have gone to E”Y” seems a bit illogical to me: Upon our exodus from Egypt, Hashem commanded us to conquer the land; he also commanded us to return to the land after the end of galus rishon. He DID NOT indicate anywhere that we should do so in 1948 CE. What Navi told you Hashem wanted us to go back in 1948 CE? Ezra? Nechemiah? It certainly doesn’t appear that this was His will based on our Torah leaders’ stated opposition to the State as well as the historical fiasco that is Zionism. Rather, we wait, with Hashem’s great kindness, in a Medina Shel Chessed, for His geulah sheleimah, may it be speedily in our days.
yidel, you must know better than Rav Chaim KAnievsky shlita who said that EY is the safest place to live. Also if I remember correctly one fine September morning six years ago 3,000 people were killed in the blink of an eye in NY city. don’t think for a moment that you are safer here than anywhere else. Because g-d rules the world and he decides who goes where and how.
Hersh, When you write “We’re against the IDF and the medinah “, who exactly is the “we”? And do the “we” have a plan for an alternative? Americans are concerned about the bloodbath that would insue if the US military pulls out of Iraq. Are you concerned about what would happen if we shut down the IDF today? “We” all know now that “you” are “against” the IDF. What do you suppose should happen. What does your ideology demand that you do. Post negative comments, or push for an actual change? If you want an actual change, how would your leaders propose that it happens? What would the scenario be? The NK would deliver a bouquet of flowers to Hamas along with the keys to the IDF arsenal? Perhaps your plan is more sophisticated. Please enlighten us. Or is your goal just to proudly proclaim in public how G-d fearing you are by being “against the IDF and the medinah”?
GOM
GOM
Yidel, you are completely wrong. You probobly are just comparing it the US where you live. I doubt you have experience in France, Russia, Ukraine, Yemen, and any of the Arab countries that do not even allow us to be there.
We should all be mispallel for the IDF as fellow yidden albeit tinokos shenishbu,they will get schar be. they mean it l’shem shomayim, however, where have so many yidden been killed in the last 50 years as in eretz yisroel WITH the IDF. Hashem doesn’t need anyone’s help to bring the geulah except OUR teshuva & tefillos, amen, ken yehi ratzon
tzoorba
Don’t ya know that hashem runs every move of TZHAL, the miracles and disasters all come from above.
Dvorah,
What would you do if Syria attacked? Would you depend on Olmert and all the rest of the active destroyers of Israel? One has to be blind not to see that the current leadership and all non Torah leadership has only meant tragedy for the Jews.
Iknowit,
“…but these tinokos shenishbu who are enlisted in the Tzahal are well trained, well informed and capabale of carrying out strategic military operations with syiata dishmaya in the zechus of all the ehrliche yidden in Eretz Yisroel.”
No one is knocking the innocent soldiers (who are facing death daily due to the non Torah rules of engagement of the Israeli leadership).
However, if you believe that they have any ability outside of siyata dishmaya you are sadly mistaken. Just look back to the recent Lebanon defeat of Israel and see what hope we have without the help of Hashem.
Fief un,
“Just remember, Hashem doesn’t often perform open miracles now, He sends His messengers to do them. Tzahal, even though many of them aren’t frum, are still messengers sent by Hashem to protect Jewish lives in Israel, and they will receive their reward for saving lives in the next world accordingly.”
Although this is true and the soldiers are innocent tzadikim for the most part and deserve our prayers as Rav Chaim Shmulevitz z”l used to say on the Yomim Noraim.
However, for us to put our trust in the secular anti Torah system is a grave mistake. The Chovos Helevovos says that one of the reasons that Esther made the party with Haman was so that the Jews wouldn’t put their trust in her. Anything that the Jews put their trust in outside of Hashem Yisborach gets destroyed.
illini07,
“Tzoorba: Your comment reminds me of a tragic story in which nuns at a catholic school had children hide under their desks and pray (during either a fire or a tornado, I don’t recall which) instead of taking affirmative actions to protect them. The result was the death of the children”
You totally misunderstood my intent. We have to do whatever hishtadlus (normal activity) is required but we shouldn’t be deluded into thinking that we can solve the problem ourselves.
Particularly in the current situation where the leadership is anti Torah and openly bent on the destruction of the Jewish people, anyone who puts their trust in them is totally deluded.
We must put our trust in Hashem and especially in todays impossible and dangerous world, we need to pray to Him for His help and salvation.
Hashem is showing us every day in every way that we are totally vulnerable, both here and in Israel and there is no apparent strategic solution. He is guiding us into putting our trust in Him (and doing any activities necessary within the framework of this understanding.
bklynmom,
“tzoorba
Don’t ya know that hashem runs every move of TZHAL, the miracles and disasters all come from above.”
If you understand this, then you basically agree with me. What I am against is putting our hope in Tzahal as an independent force.
However, behischabrecha im rasha paretz Hashem es maasecha. No good can ultimately come out of the leadership of those that don’t follow the Torah and especially those that disdain it.
Despite the sad situation that we are now in, we, as always, have to put our trust in Hashem and he will reward our trust.
jlq, as bad as it may be for the Yidden in the countries you mentioned, in NONE of them are Yidden having rockets fall from the sky on them, suicide bombers killing them and constant and ENDLESS WARS occuring.
And it was the creation of the idf (or more precisely the State, and political zionism even before the State — circa 1898) that CAUSED all the wars, mayham and murder that Jews in the medina face on a daily basis.
So now that the mamzer State already exists, you say the question is what do we do about it? Certainly not hand it over to Fatah/Hamas (just like you wouldn’t kill a mamzer child.) But I don’t purport to know all the answers to these difficult questions. There are Gedolei Yisroel FAR greater than I that do. (And continuing the current zionist political situation isn’t they’re soluton.)
right now the medina has the most jews of any country,appx5.6million.america ,although ,still with a large jewish population is losing jews to assimalation and aliya.the kibutz golus is moving along. the idf is getting frumer every day; the medina is still paying many kollelim hugh stypends daily.we should be mispalel that the rebounds seen in ourlifetime continues until the coming of moshiach.
May the IDF and IAF continue these attacks on the rest of the rishoyim all over the world
May Hashem protect the soldiers of the IDF (both frum and not-yet-frum) who are mesiras nefesh to protect their fellow Jews.
They have far greater zechus than those of us living in chutz la’aretz.
And the biggest zechus goes to those in hesder who protect us both with Torah and with their physical mesiras nefesh.
Yidel:
Those Jew survived in EY during the holocaust and were not eatten up by the Arabs because there was a strong Jewish underground -the Hagana and Irgun, who protected them? Remember Chevron 1929?
I’m sorry insane. Silly me, I always thought it was because Hashem saved them. The Chazon Ish (?) said that it was the tefilos and fasting that caused it, and had they done it the same in Europe they would have been saved there as well. Hmmm, who should I believe?
Shaya18,
I’m sniffing some tziyoinus from your words.
The establishment of the State of Israel was the clearest sign and gift from Hashem that the Jews all over are able to get out of the physical golus and come home. Of course there are certain issues within the government, but you think sitting in Chu”l is going to help anything? If all the frum Jews made aliyah (which is slowly happening, B”H thanks to Nefesh B’Nefesh) than there would have to be changes. Besides for all the political reasons, etc yishuv ha’aretz is a huge mitzvah, and every single person sitting in their comfort zone of America and elsewhere must do a serious cheshbon hanefesh and come up with a serious reason for being allowed not to make aliyah. Shana Tova everyone, hope to see you all here sometime soon!
To those of you extolling the relative safety and virtues of Chutz L’aretz. You seem to be forgetting a few minor incidents, oh say, like the pogroms in Russia, the Holocaust, etc. I understand the oversight, but you should try to be sensitive to the few survivors and family members who may have lost people in the “safety” of Europe and Russia.
Also, it’s, at best historically naive, to assume that the way Jews were treated in the Arab countries 100 years would have remained a constant. (Which by the way wasn’t all the good as they were defacto second class citizens.) Do you really think the Islamic fundamentalism that is sweeping the world today was caused by those “evil” Zionists? If you do then you have good company among skin heads, neo-Nazis, and assorted other “friends” of the Jews.
“Since the gedolim were against the medinah,”
This is false. There was a range among gedolim from Rav Kook’s pro stance, to the Chofetz Chaim’s neutral stance, to the Satmir Rebbe’s anti stance. There were gedolim in each camp, thought the smallest number in the anti camp.
After the UN voted to partition Palestine in November 1947 a proclamation was signed by 150 gedolim of all stripes saying that Jews should support the fledgling state and calling it a possilbe “aschalta d’guela”.
Most Gedolim on all sides have been able to make the nafka mina between the various governments and the Medina. The creation of the Medina was unquestionably b’yad Hashem, to say otherwise is pure apikorsis, the various governments have been b’yad adam and have ranged from deplorable to somewhat ok.
It would behoove you rabid anti-Zionists to learn from the rov of gedolei yisroel and not, of course, from the revision of history that’s being foisted on you all by the current Chareidi establishment.
sharpestnail,
you seem to be sniffing a little more the ‘tziyoinus’
Baki:
Do you actually mean that during the Shoah only those living in Eretz Yisroel were Mispallel for a yeshua, but those living in Europe did not? It should be readily eviden to anyone with a sembelance of sense that Hashem preserved the Yishuv during the shoah so that the state could be established shortly thereafter.
The Chofetz Chaim, like nearly all Gedolim of the time, were completely opposed to zionism and the State.
Those in Europe did not feel as threatened as those in what was then Palestine who were being told by the arabs that they will be wiped out when the Germans come. They therefore did not make the same yemei tefiloh as the those there.
Baki:
Excuse me, but Hitler told the Jews of Europe in 1933 that he would wipe them out.
iminisrael
Thank you for the important mussar shmooze, and you are 100% on the button.