On erev shabbos, HaGaon HaRav Yaakov Yosef spoke out regarding Emanuel for the first time, agreeing to an interview with Kol Chai Radio. Following main portions of that interview.
KOL CHAI: Why do you need this, the Emanuel affair?
R YOSEF: From a personal perspective, it is the last thing I need. I enjoy the quiet life, learning with 1,000 people weekly, busy in our Gan Eden HaTachton, but we learn in Gemara Gittin about Kamtza and Bar-Kamtza and that the rabbonim may not remain silent”.
I simply must speak out, unable to permit the current status quo continue. An injustice was committed and the girls were ridiculed – the pure and holy little girls. Together with 33 rabbonim, we discussed this and decided something must be done. We met and decided what must be done and how to respond”.
Why is the school divided and the unacceptable concept of two teachers rooms, for Ashkenazim and Sephardim. After all the the teachers all learned together in the same seminaries and now to compel them to remain in separate rooms was absurd and unacceptable.
When I first heard of the situation I did not believe it, certain it was a fantasy, inaccurate, but later learned that painfully, the facts as presented were accurate. I then spoke with a Yemenite yid who built the physical barrier, on chol hamoed no less because he was told it was a mitzvah and it was urgent. From that day on, the Ashkenazi girls turned their backs on their Sephardi peers, former friends.
The statements released by Slonim officials are simply not true and the separation is indeed ethnic, nothing more and nothing less than discrimination. After hearing many ideas and speaking with Slonimer officials, nothing resulted in change and today we find ourselves in the current state of affairs.
KOL CHAI: Are you certain? After all, the Slonimer Rebbe Shlita is truly a holy man, one who distances himself from politics and such mudslinging
R YOSEF: It appears that here, the soton is not sending a messenger, but has decided to make a personal appearance. I asked repeatedly to speak with the Admor Shlita but each meeting that was arranged was canceled. It appears they are afraid to permit me to meet with the Admor, perhaps aware I will explain and clarify a few things and then the Admor will open his eyes and realize who those around him really are”.
KOL CHAI: They say the rav is the one that canceled the meetings.
R YOSEF: Chas v’sholom. I have been running after them for three years to meet. I have no personal interest in the case. I am not looking to become the rav of Emanuel or open a kollel in the community.
Does Yoav Lalum have an interest in Emanuel one way or the other? No, but the moment they transgress Torah laws we may no longer remain silent. We are compelled to speak out and compelled to act. Where are all those rabbonim who signed? For three years they remained silent. Why are they speaking now? Let them remain silent.
KOL CHAI: How did this land out in the Supreme Court?
R YOSEF: For three years I called for setting up a beis din to adjudicate the matter internally and quietly. The beis din would have maintained ultimate authority, above the heads of the Beis Yaakov but Chinuch Atzmai was adamant in its refusal.
Regarding the school administers involved, they are wicked and Chinuch Atzmai not only did not distance itself from them, but gave them support. We have a 40-minute tape containing the ugly statements of the administrators, yet Chinuch Atzmai continues to give its backing to them. Chinuch Atzmai is acting foolishly. This entire affair has already cost over NIS 1 million and for what. A beis din could have been appointed, G-d fearing individuals that did what halacha instructs.
KOL CHAI: Perhaps the rav had demands that they simply could not adhere to.
R YOSEF: absolutely not. The Torah instructs us that if a side wishes to adjudicate a monetary matter, one is compelled to hear both sides in the case. We mustn’t rule without hearing both parties. This is against Torah Law. I am not aware of anyone that came to me or Yoav to hear our side. Not a single person.
Who says that which is reported in newspapers is correct? I do not judge the Moetzas HaTorah in the United States. Perhaps all the reports are lies.
The 33 rabbonim who heard both sides told Yoav that he must continue and may approach the secular courts.
KOL CHAI: It appears there are a number of other avos beis din that approved approaching the secular courts. Is this true?
R YOSEF: Yes, it is true but I will not reveal their names as to avoid their having to endure that which I must now endure. Included in the 33 are Ashkenazi rabbonim who also feel the pain, aware of the situation.
Sadly, they try to instill fear. I was the first one burned here. That is why I released the phone message to the media that I am pulling out. We are dealing with people who act like underworld elements.
KOL CHAI: What about all the Gedolei Yisrael who signed against the rav yet the rav continues?
R YOSEF: This is the work of the soton. That is the only way to explain it. Why didn’t the gedolim summon us, to speak to us, to hear the other side? They are signing without hearing the other side. Can this be? Perhaps the secretariat forged their names and signed or the yetzer hora in his full glory signed. We continued offering concession and compromise. Why didn’t Gedolei Yisrael respond? When they asked Rav Grossman last week, he wanted to compromise and we agreed. He didn’t know that a physical barrier existed in the school.
We will accept any and all compromises, but not one at the expense of the girls who have been tainted. It is simply awful and if we remained silent, it would continue around the country.
KOL CHAI: What does the rav have to say regarding Judge Levy’s ruling and the fact that he does not require rabbinical endorsement?
R YOSEF: I think the stormy emotional atmosphere pulled him in. after all, discrimination is a sickness and since when do we send sick individuals to jail? We are also dealing with their rabbonim and they were compelled by the Torah to be heard among brothers. We are all brothers and all in the same boat. That same Persian goy wants to wipe all of us out.
It is a sickness that requires medical attention but I for one still do not know of any psychologists capable of curing racism.
KOL CHAI: What does the rav have to say regarding his father’s words on motzei shabbos against going to the secular courts?
R YOSEF: I am pained that abba did not explain it all. There are times when we are indeed permitted to turn to the civil courts. There was a case 16 years ago of a girl and they did not wish to accept her to the school. After everything possible was done, abba said turn to the Supreme Court.
I am indeed pained that they went to prison but their leaders should not have instructed them as they did, not to sit with Sephardi girls for a few days, preferring to go to jail. There is a limit to just how far illogical actions can go. Some of the parents who were slated to go to prison signed and as a result, they were not imprisoned. I personally would not have sent a single parent to jail. This is not a crime but an illness.
KOL CHAI: But why go to the court. The Ashkenazim simply don’t want to learn with Sephardim. Why not just get your own schools?
R YOSEF: In the merit of the court in this case, this will come to an end nationwide. I am not opposed and would welcome the establishment of 1000 talmidei torah but at this very moment, such a reality does not exist.
During the last decade, the frum chareidi chinuch has expanded dramatically. Yes, I want 1000 talmidei torah but we must find a solution now, today.
KOL CHAI: Many say Rav Yaakov Yosef is Kodesh Kedoshim but Yoav Lalum led him astray.
R YOSEF: I know Yoav Lalum many years, a frum man, a G-d fearing man. He is only gaining pain and suffering from this entire matter. He remains the most threatened in the entire matter. The police are protecting him, aware of the constant threats against him.
Can I remain deaf? Dare I remain silent and abandon my friend Yoav Lalum? I am not led astray, not left or right and my signature will not be found where it is not intended to be.
KOL CHAI: What does your father, HaGaon HaRav Ovadia Yosef have to say about the entire parsha?
R YOSEF: Abba feels the pain of discrimination. Generally speaking, he does speak out against taking matters to the Supreme Court as do we. But when left without alternatives, certainly abba agrees.
(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)
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19 Responses
“Abba feels the pain of discrimination. Generally speaking, he does speak out against taking matters to the Supreme Court as do we. But when left without alternatives, certainly abba agrees.”
I thought HaRav Ovadia Yosef Shlita was AGAINST going to secular court. Am I missing something? Can someone please explain if HaRav Ovadia Yosef Shlita DOES think in this instance it’s OK?
It’s interesting that the Rav’s son doesn’t mention the Sephardi parents who went to jail & who, in his eyes, are also “guilty of discrimination.”
I am becoming more & more confused over this issue.
I agree with no.1. It would seem that ikkar chaser min hasefer as long as R. Yosef didn’t explain how this can be discrimination if Sephardi parent themselves also went to jail over this….
“KOL CHAI: What does the rav have to say regarding his father’s words on motzei shabbos against going to the secular courts?
R YOSEF: I am pained that abba did not explain it all.”
He admits he is going against his father, Rav Ovadia Yosef! That says it all.
I live in Emanuel.
Attorney Mordechai Bass was sent by the ministry of education to investigate here. He states, percentage of Ashkenazi families in the original school is 23%, and in the new (Chasidi) school, 73%.”
(Footnote at bottom: “Such figures are not totally accurate – firstly, the schools do not note the ethnicity of their students in the registration – and this is a good thing! Secondly – this figure was…partially based on the tenor of the family name, which can also be inaccurate.” )
Were any families refused admission to the Beis Yaakov Chasidi, Emanuel?
“All parents wanting to sign up their daughters to the new school, and were ready to accept upon themselves the school’s conditions, were accepted (lit. “not refused”). Since there was no rejection (of any applicants), where is the discrimination?”
Attorney Bass also states that accusations of physical barriers between the two schools were exaggerated and that indeed there was free access between the girls of both schools. He notes that the new school occupies (the third floor) rooms which were unused. (The third floor had housed the high school, and was vacated in September 2004 when the high school got its own building.)
That is what he said.
Thank you YW for presenting the other side of the issue as well
There is a well known story told of a man driving home on the thruway when he gets a call from his wife. WIFE: I just heard on the traffic report about some crazy driving in the wrong direction on the thruway, please be carefull! HUSBAND: ONE guy driving backwards?!?!? But… EVERYONE is driving backwards!!!!!
We as Jews don’t believe in following the gentile way just because they are the majority (see harav Elchunun ZTL HYD in the begining of kovets hu’uros) but when it comes to our own Rabunun usually NOT EVERYONE IS DRIVING BACKWARDS!!!
I meant Kovetz ma’amurim not Koveitz Hu’urus!
I just want to remind everyone, that 300 years ago, the Sefardim of Yerushalayim discriminated against the Ashkenazin, banning any community needs, in as far as using the Arab rulers to ban the Ashkenazim from living in Jerusalem. This was the reason that many Ashkenazim of the time ended up in the Galil. This is mentioned in many writings of the time.
Also, What I’ve heard is that the girls have not been using the school for a least a year if not more. In fact they’re not even learning in Emanuel anymore. Also, the school parents of the “under privileged “ children took a petition and 80% said that they prefer for it to be separated. So why does the Rav’s son feel that there is a mishandling here? Not to accuse, but did R’ Yaakov Yosef make a through investigation in to the case, not only from Lalum. He didn’t said that he did. Wouldn’t that make sense being that it seems that everyone else is on the other side?
Not only in Yerushalyim 300 years ago, but also in England, and probably wherever else they were the majority. R’ Ovadiah Yosef recently said that when Mashiach will come the Ashkenazim will have to use the Sefardi pronunciation. Imagine an Ashkenazi rav saying something similar…
this interview was an hour long. by not bringing the interview in its entirety, YWN is adding fuel to the fire. many questions that were asked here have been answered by the rav himself in the interview.
Msseeker:that’s because the sephardi pronunciation is the correct way. Many ahskenazi rabbonim say that too so relax
“In the merit of the court in this case, this will come to an end nationwide.”
In the merit of this secular court case the secular Israel Supreme Court has permission to interfere in religious education.
The precedent that was set was “discrimination by result”, meaning that even if many sefardim attended a new chassidic school, if the percentages don’t match the local community, it is illegal.
Does anyone realize how broad this ruling can be applied?
“In the merit of the court in this case, this will come to an end nationwide.”
In the merit of this secular court case the secular Israel Supreme Court has permission to interfere in religious education. Something that it did not have before.
The precedent that was set was “discrimination by result”, meaning that even if many sefardim attended a new chassidic school, if the percentages don’t match the local community, it is illegal.
Does anyone realize how broadly this ruling can be applied? I am not aware of any country in the world that requires religious schools ethnic composition to match that of the local community.
The main problem is that the sefardim feel themselves inferior to ashkenazim. They have to go to ashkenazi schools and seminaries. They have their own mesora, it is not a matter of discrimination, they are not allowed ot change and should keep to it. The chinuch atsmai for financial reasons and to give ashkenazim parnoso have taken on the sefardim. This is wrong. Now they have come unstuck. One never hears of ashkenazim going to sefardi schools or yeshivot. They have to stop this inferiority complex and accept that they are in no way lower (less civilized) or subservient to ashkenazim.
This reporters “reporting” of this story is reminiscent of the BBC and its Israel reporting.
To the one who raised “sephardi discrimination of 300 years ago” are you suggesting that this is juistified payback? Please clarify your point?
How could the sefardi pronunciation be “the correct way” when the sefardi havarah doesn’t differentiate between a kamatz and a patach and a tav and a sav?
Where is the logic in that?
I find it difficult to imagine that Moshe Rabbeinu spoke Lashon HaKodesh in an imprecise manner. May we all be zoche to find out at the geulah shieimah BB”A.
#8 Your historical perspective is missing some fine details. There was a loan taken out by Ashkenazic kehillah from the Arabs over 500 years ago that was not repaid and therefore they were not given housing in the old city.
The Yemenite havarah is the correct way. It has all the sounds.