11:54AM EST: YWN has learned that the judge has sentenced Sholom Rubashkin to 27 years in jail – Hashem Yirachem!
She will officially read the sentence to the defendant in court tomorrow.
The sentence is greater than the amended recommendation from prosecutors.
FURTHER DETAILS TO FOLLOW…
SUPPORTERS OF SHOLOM RUBASHKIN OUTRAGED BY EXCESSIVE PRISON SENTENCE
Sentence of 27 Years Inconsistent with Calls from Legal Community for Judge to Avoid Disparity of Justice
CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa – Family, friends and supporters of Sholom Rubashkin expressed outrage Monday after the federal court announced a sentence of 27 years in prison for Rubashkin for his bank fraud conviction. The sentence is greater than the amended recommendation from prosecutors, and is inconsistent with calls from throughout the legal community for Rubashkin to be sentenced in a manner similar to other men and women convicted of white-collar crimes.
“The sentence is greater than necessary, indeed, it is greater than what the government asked for,” said Guy Cook, a member of Rubashkin’s legal defense team. “It is unfair and excessive, essentially a life sentence for a 51-year-old man, and is not in the public interest.”
The Hon. Bob Barr announced Monday that Rubashkin will appeal the verdict and the sentence.
“This sentence is inconsistent with the overwhelming view of the legal community, including six former U.S. attorneys general, who have all said a first-time, non-violent offense does not warrant a multi-decade sentence,” Barr said. “The court’s sentence today is even more than prosecutors asked for, which is a very disturbing development.”
Rubashkin’s attorneys had asked the court to impose a sentence no greater than 72 months, noting his positive history and character and his extraordinary family circumstances. They emphasized that Rubashkin’s conduct was not done for personal gain, that he did not intend any loss to the bank, and that a 72-month sentence would allow the Bureau of Prisons to place Rubashkin in a facility with experience in effectively and humanely incarcerating observant Jewish inmates.
Prosecutors, however, recommended 25 years in prison for Rubashkin. The extreme recommendation sparked outrage amongst legal scholars, with more than two dozen former senior Justice Department officials – including six former U.S. attorneys general – criticizing the prosecutors’ recommendation in a letter to Judge Reade. Rubashkin also garnered support from a wide array of political, legal and community leaders, who expressed dismay at the potential for Rubashkin to receive such a harsh sentence.
“It is heartbreaking to see the judge and the prosecution make an example out of Sholom Rubashkin at the expense of his family and his community,” said his wife, Leah. “What has happened today is inconsistent with the idea of equal justice under the law. All we have asked is that he be treated the same as everyone else.”
Rubashkin’s sentence is particularly harsh when compared to others convicted of similar crimes. Mark Turkcan, the president of First Bank Mortgage of St. Louis, who misapplied $35 million in loans, resulting in a loss of approximately $25 million, was recently sentenced by a federal judge in Missouri to one year and one day in prison.
The Rubashkin family and its supporters remain committed to pursuing all avenues towards a fair sentence, including appeal. They continue to call on the Justice Department to investigate the pattern of overzealous prosecution in the Rubashkin case, which included the life sentence recommendation.
“The way this case was handled may go down in history as a permanent stain on American justice,” said Nathan Lewin, an attorney overseeing Rubashkin’s appeal. “Sholom Rubashkin has been targeted by prosecutors in Iowa from the very beginning, and has been treated unlike other similar defendants. We have asked, and continue to ask, the Justice Department to review the numerous instances of prosecutors stepping outside the bounds of standard and decent conduct in this case.”
In addition to the uncharacteristically severe sentence recommendation, Rubashkin has been subjected to numerous instances of harsh or disparate treatment by prosecutors and the government. The Agriprocessors meatpacking plant he oversaw was subjected to a military style raid in May 2008, which had disastrous effects on the Postville community and could have been avoided if Immigrations and Customs Enforcement had agreed to the plant’s offer to cooperate.
After the raid, Rubashkin was subjected to seven superseding indictments and denied bail before trial because of claims by prosecutors that he could flee to Israel because he is Jewish. While Rubashkin was eventually released on bail after no sufficient evidence was found that he was a flight risk, Rubashkin was again denied bail before sentencing and deemed a “flight risk.”
And before trial, the District Judge severed the trial of the 72 immigration violations in the Seventh Superseding Indictment from the 91 bank-fraud charges. Nonetheless, contending that he committed bank fraud when he represented to the bank that Agri was complying with the law, the Iowa prosecutors presented more than two days of highly inflammatory testimony regarding the immigration allegations during the bank-fraud trial. The District Judge denied repeated defense requests for a mistrial.
Rubashkin was cleared by a jury last month of having personal knowledge of, and criminal liability for, the employment of minors at Agriprocessors. That was the only case brought to trial on Rubashkin’s involvement in the hiring practices of Agriprocessors. The federal charges that he was involved in hiring illegal immigrants have been dismissed.
(Yehuda Drudgestein – YWN)
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153 Responses
NOW THIS REQUIRES HAVGONOS LIKE NEVER BEFORE IF WE REALLY CARE
That’s crazy!!! More than the prosecutors called for?! I hope the appeals courts have better judges.
Why would she announce this a day earlier? This is a modern day Dryfus.
I’m devastated at this gross miscarriage of justice. What can we do now?
Hashem Yerachem….
Afilu cherev chado munachas al tzavoro shel odom, al yimna atzmo min harachamin… Yidden – Be mispallel. It’s not too late.
This judge was appointed by George Bush. Let’s be careful and think before we judge our judges as they are being appointed…..
im speechless
And the moser from deal lives like a free man
The biggest ganovim in ottisville got max sentences of 7 years for stealing 50 million from fannie may and freddie mac
Please be Mispallel for Sholom Mordechai Ben Rivkah; Go to the massive gathering tonight 15th Ave. corner 45th Street in Boro Park.
Hashem will do wonders!
time for a pulsa denura…..
Anybody have the email of this judge, or somebody else we should all protest this gross miscarriage of justice to?
Anti-Semite lowlife judge.
Gam zu letova ! Now this will help them in appeal since it shows the anti-semitism of the Judge Reade…..
You gotta be kidding me!
Twenty seven years?
This crime should get 4 years maximum.
I hope they appeal it with the supreme court, and he walks out a free man, and then sues this rashsnta haman for everything she’s worth.
Her and the prosecutor.
Mr. Rubashkin is a convicted criminal.
He has no place amongst the honest, G-d-fearing Torah-observant public. His unethical behavior has been a Chillul Hashem of the first order which deserves our strongest condemnation.
I have been totally mystified by this campaign to find Zchus in Mr. Rubashkin’s behavior and to pressure the justice system to reduce his sentence.
What is going on here? Who is behind this well-orchestrated attempt to somehow make Mr. Rubashkin into a Tzadik when, in fact, he has been convicted in court of some serious and dispicable crimes?
My disappointment with the frum leadership on this matter is very great. Is there no one out there who has the gumption to say that this man and his ilk should not be embraced, but evicted?
Where is the moral outrage against him?
Such individuals do not have a place in the Torah world of honest and sincere Jews who place ethics above making money.
Shame on all those who have not condemned this man.
I’m with you # 1!!!
#15- eatch rabbi zweibel on this video that ywn posted. he very clearly explains your issue.
take 10 minute and watch it.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=57445
what a churban
hafganos NOW
#15 i hope gd strikes you down.
the nerve you have
murderes get 27 years. rapists get 27 years, and #15 above deserves 27 years for that disgusting comment
anta-semit shtick chazer this judge is.
Every DOG has its day.
This judge will leave her position with bushas like never before.
Just let this get to the supreme court.
It will be a funny scene, as thousadns cheer her on as she packs her bags and boxes and will MAYBE be given a job to pull feather in a MEAT PACKING PLANT.
ur commenting. im crying
What is the procedure? How quickly can someone appeal?
In my opinon, there should be 25,000 people at the BP event tonight, and let the media drool all over t.
THATS WHATS NEEDEDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The appeals is starting tonight at the massive gathering tonight 15th Ave. corner 45th Street in Boro Park. Klal Isruel Byachad
Reuven Brauner: You are obviously a computer programmer or a ticket clerk or something. You do not understand that if you own a business, and the govt decides to come after you , they can turn ultra minor infractions into major conspiracy charges. This is a complete miscarriage of justice
Reuven Brauner, you do not know the facts. The government is charging bank fraud eventhough the bank is not claiming fraud. Now do you know why? What is your problem; got to get along with your counterpart in the Justice Department?
Mr Reuven Brauner ( thats not your real name ) , you are a dispicable “human” being. Your absoloute hatred that you posess for a fellow Jew is beyond comprehension. The issue at hand is the excessiveness of the verdict, not the crime. We are up in arms because similar crimes have not warranted this type of sentence.
When you die, you will be held accountable for your actions and your sins. Would you want to be punished by G-D, without mercy or would you want to be judged leniently? According to your theory, if you do the crime, you must do the time but not just do the time, do it a lot longer than it should be served. if thats the case I pray that you rot along with the judge that sentenced Rubashkin so unjustly and that G-D has zero mercy for any of your sins and that you get punished excessively in olam haba
to #15, Mr. Brauner..Are you normal???? Are you Jewish??? Can you read english? Do you know anything about this trial???? YOU are the criminal for giving false testimony about a fellow Jew!!!!
Rubashkin is guilty of falsifying 2 invoices and that’s it. Everything else is a fairytale concocted and convoluted by no other than the US government agents in order to justify the costly and unjustified raid they bungled in 2008. And who signed off on the raid? No other than the Honorable (????) Judge Linda Reade herself, who by the way should have excused herself from the trial since there was a conflict of interest. Obviously she also wanted to justify her approving the raid.
Did you ever cross the street against a light? That’s criminal? Drop a paper on the street instead of the trash can, against the law? Ever go over the speed limit? Hire a shikse in the house and not pay taxes for her? Again illegal. Shall I go on?
Shame on you for saying what you did! Moderators should remove your post.
#28 – No. He must be a cappo from aushwitz. That’s what he must be. No frum person can say such a thing at a time like this.
Any info on tonights event in BP/
Reuven Brauner
Your comment is childish, and lacking a basic understanding of our judicial system, the Torah’s judicial system and the definition of (i quote u) “serious and dispicable crimes”
If he was convicted of bank fraud, hiring minors, hiring illegals, making and selling drugs (as in original charge) I might agree with your concept, not the tone of it, at this time.
But the facts are everything was either thrown out, dismissed, or found not guilty. What he was found guilty on was basically lying on his loan application, he didn’t steal any money, he didn’t do it to live a lavish life style, or any of that. not that lying on a bank application is OK, but it’s not “a serious and dispicable crimes” your attitude for a petty crime (yes over inflation net worth is a petty crime) is mind boggling, this isn’t even about him being a yid, for the American government to “pick” on someone and make his life hell, is not what democracy is about.
Today it’s him tomorrow it’s you for speeding, they can throw onto it unsafe lane change, not blinking, aggressive driving, tailgating, i have news for you if a prosecutor wants a person can go to jail for speeding, will you say i deserve it i committed a “serious and dispicable crimes”
Yemach Shemom Vezichrom, it is time to stand up and fight for our brother, not allow the Nazis of Iowa to prosecute him unfairly and unjustly.
I think this can be a big “tovah” for rubashkin because now that she showed her real face, everybody will understand that she had a major ridiculous hatred against the jewish rubashkin
Just like Jonathan Pollard. Non-Jewish criminals are sentenced to much shorter terms for the exact same (or worse) crime.
Please everyone come tonight to Bais Yakkov to support him.
The conduct of the State of Iowa towards R’ Sholom is in line with the conduct of goyim in general over thousands of years. Chazal say that if the umos haolam would understand the importance of the Beis Hamikdosh to their well-being they would surround it with armies to protect it. Not only ddn’t they do that, they became part of the churban. During the Middle Ages the countries of Europe all saw how ecomically enhanced they became with a Jewish presence, yet periodically would throw the Jews out, resulting in economic ruin for that country. Agriprocessors was the main employer in Postville, bringing millions in economic relief and jobs and taxes to the community. The ingratitude of Iowa is appalling. The viciuosness with which the prosecutors went after him, the egregious nature of the judges, is all amazing. Hopefully R’ Sholom will prevail on appeal to saner judicial authority. Hashem Yazor.
this judge is nothing more than a helen thomas.
hope they both rot in HELLen
Brauner…Is this is your real name? Because now we know what you are. You think you will be received nicely in your Shul & by your neighbors? I feel sorry for your family to be associated with such a heartless, cruel, rigid, ignorant person. You disgust me.
#26 is right.
we should have 25,000 people in bp tonight!
Nothing less.
shut the streets down.
I think many of us have forgotten that we still live in Golus. We may have also forgotten, our basic fundamental belief, that Hashem runs the world according to his will.
I rarely see articles or comments making a point of the fact that anti-semitism is the will of Hashem and is a call from above that we need to do Teshuva. We somehow think that if we yell, scream, and kick our feet we can always attain that which we seek. It isn’t true. Certain Heimesha newspapers are terribly misleading in this sense. They purport to pass the message along of Hashkafas H’torah, but when you read through them, there is barely a mention of true hashkafa, in proportion to the outcries of anti-semitism. It is misleading to our younger generation, and a big shame.
Notwithstanding, my heart goes out for Mr. Rubashkin. I will continue to keep him in mind in my prayers. May Hakadash Boruch hu help him gain the strength he needs in the aftermath of this terrible besura.
To YWN: For the honor of Mr. Rubashkin and his family please remove comment # 15 immediately!!
TO Reuven Brauner:
Are you not embarrassed to post such a comment?? A man with no criminal record has been attacked from day 1, just because he is an “Orthodox Jew” 1) Military style raid 2) Denied bail 3)Recommendation of LIFE SENTENCE!! 4)Denied bail 2nd time (he was even aquitted in the state trial) and when he receives a 27 YEAR PRISON SENTENCE!! Hashem Yirachem!! thats 2 years more then the harsh recommendation from federal prosecutors!! you can still say that?? we dont condemn poor Mr. Rubashkin but we condemn your horrible, heartless comment!! I hope you do tshuva soon!!
Persecutors wanted Life; they got their Life.
What a blood libel; but no surprises.
If they could, they would hang the Jew.
OJ lached zich ois.
Now it’s time for Rubashkin to get his dream team together to find constitutional and procedural flaws.
that’s full of רשעות. the best person i ever heard of should be SENTENCED like that ?????? and that didn’t happened in 1950 or before. i was sure that he will go out free, that Gov is full of Corruption, we can only be Misspallel more and more and try to help out with supporting the family and to give money for Klal Yisroel Fund they should be able to go ahead and appeal the court
מי שאמר לעולמי די יאמר לצרותינו די
We must be mispallel NOW with all our lev, as we now see more clearly than ever at what is at risk. Ain od melavdo. WE MUST NOW be mispallel for Sholom Mordechai Ben Rivkah, let us not forget who is realy in charge. Till it it is official it is still bederech hatevah and reasonable for a change to be. The gates of tears/ are never closed.
There is a simple way for the State of Iowa to understand what will happen to them if this 27 year sentence is carried through. Let any big frum companies there-that is you Heshie Freidman, who took over the Postville plant-go to the surrounding states (Nebraska, Kansas)and tell them: what can you offer me in the way of tax breaks etc to move my operation to your state? Then tell Iowa that the their unemployment rate is going to go up because you have found a better place to run your business-and would rather avoid the possibilty of a witch hunt in the future.
It is amazing how effectively this will work-no state in the union can afford to see a town evaporate economically.
#15 stop showing off
everyone who is upset at the judge has the right to be but just realize who the real judge is making all the decisions.
Response to #15 Reuven:
People are simply asking that he be treated the same as any other criminal. They only ask that the justice system be blind to his yarmulke and beard and treat everyone equally. When someone is demarcated for harsher treatment under the law because he practiced a certain religion, this is called discrimination and it violates everything that this country was founded upon.
I do not know all of the details of this case as I was not at the trial but the growing consensus seems to be that Rubashkin was treated harsher than similarly situated criminals.
where and what time is the asifa tonight?
Every yid in Boro Park has to be tonight at 15th Ave. corner 45th Street. Klal Isruel Byachad
BS”D
Please do a search on the surname Brauner in Boro Park. I believe that this Brauner is a troll who purposely is using that particular surname.
As for Rubashkin, America, love it or leave it. I left it. Time for anyone who is of an entrepreneurial mindset to do the same. Overregulation and the rise of the looney left and do-gooders like Moore and PETA will leave you in the poorhouse – or the jailhouse – if you anger some fringe lefties out there who make noise.
They should have opened in Mexico and shipped up North. I hope the next generation of Rubashkins does just that.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=62994
thats the only way !!!!!!!!!!!
please please be mispallel
שלום מרדכי בן רבקה
למנצח מזמור לדוד יענך ה’ ביום צרה ישגבך שם אלקי יעקב ישלח עזרך מקודש ומציון יסעדך יזכור כל מנחותיך ועולתך ידשנה סלה יתן לך כלבבך וכל עצתך ימלא נרננה בישועתיך ובשם אלוקינו נדגול ימלא ה’ כל משאלותיך עתה ידעתי כי הושיע ה’ משיחו יענהו משמי קדשו בגבורות ישע ימינו אלה ברכב ואלה בסוסים ואנחנו בשם ה’ אלוקינו נזכיר המה כרעו ונפלו ואנחנו קמנו ונתעודד ה’ הושיעה המלך יעננו ביום קראינו
By having Reuven Brauner not respond even once to all the comments made to him, we see his motive was not to really want to understand, he rather unfortunately was successful of having his message come through (perhaps he’s a member of Hechsher Zedek – conservative). He got all of his attention he seeked for. However, B”H Lo Almon Yisrael, even though he didn’t deserve to be answered, it is a chizuk for us how united klal Yisrael is and “Netzach Yisrael Lo Yeshaker!
And to you Mr. Brauner, your “Am Horatzes” is just in high standard…. Even if you were to be right (which we all know your not) about the crimes he did, the halacha of pidyon shvuyim is not about someone who is inicent. It is davka nogeia to a criminal who is sentenced to jail. (unless murder), so your totally wrong with your comment even “leshitoscho”.
This calls for massive protests topping 100,000 minimum to gather support. In the New york area, this is not that hard. And perhaps to have thousand attend the hearing, line up the streets in Iowa, “for some its losing a day of a week, but for others losing years in a day, hangs in the balot”.
Also lets not forget to daven.
And to #15, guranteed your not getting by techiyas hamesim!!
Robasei, be careful. The judge did not read her verdict yet. We perhaps are all playing into her corrupt hands when she reads these posts and perhaps quotes them tomorrow to show what type of people are supporting Mr. Rubashkin….I might be wrong but why else did she leak the news before the verdict ?
Rabosei, be careful. The judge did not read her verdict yet. We perhaps are all playing into her corrupt hands when she reads these posts and perhaps quotes them tomorrow to show what type of people are supporting Mr. Rubashkin….I might be wrong but why else did she leak the news before the verdict ?
Everyone on this blog pick call/email your congressman, senator, especially Sen. Schummer he is on the Judiciary committee, Tel.212-486-4430 email: schumer.senate.gov, express your outrage on this injustice and ask that congress investigate the Iowa prosecutors and the judge.
Watch out!! Judge Linda reed is reading all the coments here she is #15 I dont think anyone else besides here could write such a “RISHESDIGA” comment, so please for your own sake every body should watch what you write on, she can go after you, and to you # 15 I am waiting for the day I will be able to visit you in prison for a sentence for at least 150 years every body should answer amen
If anyone doubted this judge’s intentions, I don’t think anyone can disagree that she is one huge anti-semite. She went against recommendations from across the political and judicial spectrum and even ignored the recommendations of the prosecution and did what she set out to do from day one. H-shem has His ways. The achdus and the Tefilos and the maasim tovim that were done will ultimately overturn this gezeirah – it may just take a little longer. And this judge will have whts coming to her. It really is beyond comprehension that despite it all she did what she did.
Let us resolve to unite in achdus in the merit that the decree should be abolished
Vayichan sham yisrael…k’ish echad b’lev echad
To some up the actions of this Judge Linda Reade CHUTZPAH !
27 year sentence for a 55 year old man is a LIFE sentence.
Lets start working on President Obama to pardon the sentence in three years, before he leaves office.
Pollard’s case is different in nature, and scope. Rubaskin’s case is financial.
Lets all march down to Iowa, let’s have a million man march.
i am broken-hearted
CAN SOMEONE ANSWER? I HAVE A SIMPLE QUESTION ABOUT THE LAW.
What is the law if the judge drops dead tonight, will the verdict still be read and excersized, or will a new judge need to look at the case, and provide a new verdict?
Also, Is the verdict signed by the judge? If yes, what happens if the original signed verdict gets lost or burnt?
I’m ready to go demonstrate.
Somebody organize something asap.
so is the rally tonight for women or not?
To # 15:
Who are you to judge?? You should be ashamed as a fellow Jew to sign your real name (assuming it is your real name). The punishment does not fit the crime, plain and simple. We all make mistakes. Let’s hope your turn doesn’t come around for your sake.
Bruaner just so i can understand your comment above. What do you think of Pollack still in Jail after 24 years while russian spies were exchange? Also what do you think about the fraud in fannie and freddie what should these guys get. I final thing why do you think it is good for him to get 27 years instead of 5 or 50 years What do you know about peta and seiu union being involved in getting the government to raid the place. Now do you still think 27 years is right. Does the judge have any prejudices also
Let the achdus of klal Yisroel that is united with SM Rubashkin in his pain, be a zchus for his ultimate speedy redemption when he appeals this verdict.
And the suffering of Rubashkin, that this cruel, heartless witch of a judge Reade caused, will be repaid in kind by the True Judge. Her suffering will be an eternal suffering that all enemies of the Jews get.
My Dear Fellow Jews,
Did I miss something here? What is all this attack against me personally? But, for those of you who may have missed my point, I will reword what I meant.
In my humble opinion, the frum community has understand that it must place the concepts of honesty and truthfulness in the forefront of its mission. We, as Torah-observant Jews, must be sensitive to the fact that our entire purpose on this earth is to observe G-d’s commandments as meticulously and seriously as possible. And a prerequisite for that is to be honest in our words and business dealings. If we fail to make that our standard, all else that we do is meaningless. Kedoshim T’heiu!
I found it curious that all those who are objecting to me (I am not the issue here) fail to see that by mounting a public campaign on behalf of someone who has not been all that Kosher with his business dealings, the frum community is, in some small way, giving its “Hechsher” to his misdeeds. I find that totally objectionable. We must distance ourselves from him and make it known to the world that he does NOT represent us.
I feel sorry for him and his family that he got them into this mess. I have no way to evaluate if his sentence is too high or too little. That was not my point. My point is that we should not make a public stand in defending him.
Is there no one out there who understands this issue? Are there no frum Jews out there who have a sense of morality and ethics and integrity? I find it hard to believe that there are so many individuals who have been swept up in this campaign that they no longer can see that this is not what the Torah wants of us.
I apologize if I offended anyone, but I feel that there is a serious distortion going on here and the world, our world, our frum world, should know that there is another Deioh.
Finally, Reuven Brauner is my real name.
To # 32 & 35;
Aside from the merit of the case itself,
I request you refrain from using NAZI adjectives.
They gassed my grandparents, and burnt their bodies.
AS FAR AS RUBASHKIN;
This is obviously a tragic turn of events, and it seems obviously a case of the judge being beholden to the unions,
THAT WHY SHE ORDERED THE RAIDS AND ISSUED THIS VERDICT.
IT IS THE UNIONS WHO WANTED TO TEACH A LESSON; DON’T HIRE NON-UNION MEMBERS OTHERWISE WE’LL GET YOU!
I am afraid they succeeded, because even if Rubashkin goes free tomorrow, who now dares stand up to the unions?
FYI you people are n u t s. In fact the whole response to this case is nuts and showes a complete lack sadly of understanding of jewish history. Any and i going to say this as clear as i can any comparison of Sholom Rabashikin to Pollard or dryfus is Dead wrong and very sad for our community. I feel very sorry for Rav Shalom he has commitied crimes and while the punishment is harsh we have to remeber Jonathin pollard is still sitting in jail for no crime at all they were just jewish same with what happend Dryfus. Joathin Pollard has been sitting in jail for LIFE and has recived little or no help from the community in recent years.
Point 2 I’m perplexed i think all people reading this site are aware of jews some frum that are sitting in prison for crimes of varying levels. They have all needed our help some have family’s that could use help where have we been for them.I myself have been aware of a rav who was in prison there was no support at all for him or his family, but i’m not here to dwell on the past. We have started something special with rave shlom protecting fellow jews dosen’t end with him we need to start this for everyone that needs our help.
To the grammatically correct #15; You said “in fact, he has been convicted in court of some serious and dispicable crimes?” First you spelled despicable wrong. Second your statement is not true. His innocence very well may still be proclaimed as the the verdict has not been officially announced. Why are you jumping to conclusions? Were you ranting about the child labor charges as well?
It’s so hard to understand how a man that everyone is saying such great stories of his acts of kindness is getting sentenced to 27 years. He essentially was living the American dream. Built a large company from nothing and gave jobs to an entire town.
Yet this judge feels it neccesary to give him the maximum sentance ?
Maybe she was jealous of what R’Ahron Rubashkin and his family were able to accomplish ???
#15 All I could say is shame shame on you!! Whoever you are, you are a heartless despicable individual.
Reuven Brauner
what don’t you get?
there is a difference between protesting a guilty verdict, which no one here is doing, and an absurd sentence!!
i asked you before and you didn’t answer, if you were sentenced to 25 years for speeding should someone protest the sentence? or say dina da malchusa dina, and if you can’t do the time don’t do the crime, or he’s a criminal, lets not stand behind him??
PLEASE!!! PLEASE EVERYBODY BE CIVIL WITH YOUR COMMENTS!!
THOSE COMMENTS CAN BE SEEN AND USED AGAINST RUBASHKIN BY THE MEDIA OR JUDGES. ANYBODY WHO HAS ANY INTEREST IN THE RUBASHKIN CASE WILL SURELY FIND YESHIVA WORLD, YOU JUST GOOGLE RUBASHKIN AND THIS PAGE COMES UP. BY NAME CALLING AND CURSING YOU ARE JUST HELPING THEM, SO THEY WILL BE ABLE TO SHOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE SUPPORT RUBASHKIN. (please also respond with restraint to the person calling himself Reuven Brauner.)
COURAGEOUS, G-D FEARING, TRUTHFUL, AND MONEY HATING TORAH’S REQUIREMENTS FOR A JUDGE. EXODUS 18:21
Apparently Ms. Reade didn’t get the memo.
to #75(#15) I dont think anyone is saying that he should be totally be left off the hook, we’re just saying he should be judged fairly meaning if found guilty not more than 3 yrs and that was not the case here at all. There is anti semitisim all over this case and that is why he got such a rediculous sentencing.
Does anyone know if there is going to be any protesting in Israel?
REUVEN BRAUNER: I agree with you that frum or not frum, anyone that breaks the law deserves to be punished. However,you are making the assumption that Sholom Rubashkin is “guilty” of all the charges issued against him. Furthermore, even on the chance that he is guilty, what happened to the punishment fitting the crime? Why should Sholom Rubashkin get the equivalent of a life sentence for a crime that usually gets 1-3 years? Is it just because he looks different, i.e. religious, that he deserves a harsher sentence??? It is this injustice that we are protesting! For when even one American is denied a fair and equal trial without bias, we are all denied our rights!!! This case demonstrates a gross injustice of our judicial system and everyone should be outraged!
To Hon. Judge Linda Reed Sorry! Reuven Brauner, it looks like you have a total blockage or never grown up but the best way to describe you is an intelligent “RUSHA” and make no mistake I don’t use this word to often but I never met a person with so much Rishos,let me make clear, (1) Sholom Mordchai Rubashkin is admitting he did something wrong he is only asking that he should be treated the same way of other people who committed the same crime, (2) we all know that every one in this country has the right for a fare trial but in this case the judge denied a fair trial by all means (3) if major attorneys are all seeing as this sentence is out of proportion who are you to say that R’ Shoulom Rubashkin don’t deserve klal yisroel should help him, and let me tell you why you see it the opposite way because you are a siner you probably eat “CHAZIR TRIEF” I have no doubt even I don’t know you
To Mr Brunner:
“מהרסיך ומחריביך ממך יצאו
How sad that we are over 2000 years in Galus & it still aplies to our day in age!!
lets riot in washington!!!
This is deserving of a peaceful march/demonstration in Washington.
BH Greetings & Blessings to all. I must state that this fellow Mr. Brauner appears to be a true am ha’reta. He certainly does not know halachah. It is quite clear, regardless of the crime, ALL Jews are required to do everything possible to see to it that a fellow Jew never goes into prison – all the more so, a prison owned and regulated by nonjews. It is a clear halachah. WE have the obligation to do all we can to keep Mr. Rubashkin amvsh, our of prison. Does this mean he is totally innocent? It is NOT our call, so to say. Only The True Judge can make the decision of guilt or innocence. However, The True Judge is looking at Klal Yisroel at this very moment (as He always does), but now He is looking to see what WE do to help this man. Will Klal Yisrael throw their hands up and say “what can be done”? Or will Klal Yisroel stand together, united, as stated above – b’lev echad – as we were at Har Sinai – and literally fight for justice and The Torah way !!! Sometimes HaShem give us the opportunity to show that we can come together w/ respect for each other, to unite for a cause that is L’Shaym Shomayim. It is really our test – will we unite & continue to fight – not each other, Gd Forbid, but together, fight for Torah Justice, not human justice. We must answer this call to action, HaShem is providing all of us with a chance to show Him that we can come together to aid a fellow Jew. Let us not let Him down! For those that live in the environs of New York City – your job is to attend this rally tonight. For those of us that live elsewhere, across the USA, if we are not able to make our own rally where we live, at least call your senator, your congress person, and yes, even call the White House. In addition, we must, en masse contact the so-called “Leaders” of Jewish America – and calmly teach them the neccesity for their involvement. These Jews have the “ear” of the White House, they have direct contact with people in the White House. Wouldn’t this be the most opportune time for the President to “score points” so to say, with the Jewish world. So far, he has botched things w/ us, but if he chooses to get involved, I am sure HaShem and even many Jews will remember this for a long time. The President has two choices – pardon someone, which means to declare them innocent and they can leave prison and no one in the USA can ever make claims against said person for the same crime/s ever again. He can also choose to commute someone’s sentence. This means, The President can state, this person, although still guilty of the crime/s, I believe he has served his sentence, and therefore he changes the sentence to “time served” and the prison must release the prisoner without delay. The person is not declared innocent, but he is declared free based on time served. The difference being, one who is pardoned has their “record” cleared as if nothing happened, and one that is given a commutation, will still have a “record” on him, but he is immediately freed from prison based on time served. It is often “easier” to convince the President to commute a sentence than to pardon a person. This way, the President doesn’t have to make the vital choice of innocent or guilty. All he has to do is commute the sentence given and release him from prison. Once again, I am pretty sure the person could not be tried for the exact same crime again. Our job, right now, is not only to rally, but to contact our government representatives, including the White House, and to hound them with calls and emails and faxes – but always be calm and respectfull to them, so they will hear the message and not the messenger – our campaign must be direct & sincere, and we must, at the same time, pierce the Heavens begging HaShem to hear our prayers and to answer our prayers by releasing Mr. Rubashkin. And while we are at it, releasing Mr. Pollard is also a good thing, too.
Let’s show HaShem we can stand together. And let’s show ourselves that we can overcome our petty differences & work together. Last thought for now, how beautiful it would be if we can also convince our brothers & sisters in Israel – to join us in the fight. They never seem embarrassed to ask us to join them – they always want our support for all sorts of “campaigns”, and now it their turn to help us. This is not the time to think, I will only act if it makes me feel good. This is the time to do something positive, regardless of how it makes us feel. JUST DO IT!
Office of the Attorney General Public Comment Line – 202-353-1555
Mr. Brauner,
I just don’t get it. You come forward under your own name, yet you act surprised by the animosity we feel towards you for your hateful comments? Amazing! Are you really so naive you think we, as frum Jews, believe this travesty is justice? Just how stupid do you think we are?
I condemn you for your heartlessness in judging this man based upon your skewed concept of justice. Do you really think he deserves more punishment than drunk drivers who decapitate 4-year old children? Your priorities are so out of whack it’s incredible to believe you really stand by your opinions.
Remember:
Jews can have differences of opinion. Not everyone who disagrees with you deserves to be struck down by G-d (#20), or to be compared to a rapist or a murderer and condemned to “27 years for that disgusting comment” (#21). If one disagrees, that person is not secretly non-Jewish or somehow illiterate, and his comment does not deserve to be censored from our discourse, as #31 suggests.
A difference of opinion is a difference of opinion, and it is not necessarily “childish,” as #34 has said. And #41, do you really think Mr. Brauner is “a heartless, cruel, rigid, ignorant person”? Must you really be disgusted by a difference of opinion? And #32, “a cappo from auschwitz”? Really?
Maybe Mr. Brauner does not have all the facts of the case. Maybe he does, and he has come to a different conclusion than you have. No matter the case, he should be treated with the same respect with which he made his comments. Some of you have done so. But others among you have written things that make my heart ache. Tzinaz chinam is obviously alive and well in the Jewish community.
There is room for plurality in Judaism, and for polite debate that does not devolve into personal attacks. Unfortunately, there might not be room for it on this website.
To paraphrase some remarks that have been made earlier on this page, the ultimate court is the court of shamayim. We must all remember that as we begin to pass judgement on our fellow Jews, whether they are Sholom Rubhashkin or Reuven Brauner.
Shalom Mordechai Rubashkin has been chosen by Hashem to be the messenger to get Klal yisroel to do Teshuva & return to Hashem without saying WHY IS THIS HAPPENING. we can all clearly see that right now in this generation that we are clearly missing the bond & responsibility of one jew to another is very bad. when the entire klal yisroel bonds together as one & does teshuva then we are all ready for help from Hashem & the Ge’ula UNTIL THEN hashem is waiting & begging us to do teshuva & return to him. May the Ge’ula be here very soon
Reuven Brauner,
you seem a little desperate for some attention no need to get it this way, its not so nice.
Is there any gathering in Monsey to protest this gross miscarriage of justice?
#93 some_jew, didn’t you say about a cheredi that was put into a coma by Israeli thug police that “cheredim are thugs and brought it on themselves”?!?!
And now when some self hating Jew, so viciously attacks Rubashkin who’s worst crime is about equivelent to speeding on an empty highway, suddenly YOU defend the self hating Jew (or perhaps non Jew posing as a Jew, for
all we know) and talk about “respect” ?
I see liberal hypocrisy all the time.
For all practical purposes liberal=hypocrite, anyway.
But YOURS still stuns me, since it is so blatant and so painfulluy obvious.
It is unbelievable that if someone disagrees with the sentiment on the this discussion, he is labeled a “cappo” and wishes for him to burn and be overlooked for techiyas hameisim is what is lobbed at him. What has happened to us as a people? So he has a strong opinion about crime. If this was about someone who ran a company that forged a credit application to a heimish business, you’d all be screaming to jail them forever, etc.
This is the American system and as previous poster put it, love it or leave it. Protests are also the American way as are appeals, etc.
Instead of attacking Mr. Brauner, try to understand what he is saying. Don;t agree with it? you can let him know RESPECTFULLY! Shame on all of you who have wished him bad!
#90: “ALL Jews are required to do everything possible to see to it that a fellow Jew never goes into prison”. Really? For any crime? Never? What is your halachic source, I would really love to know.
hereorthere:
I have never said that, nor would I never say that.
I defy you to prove that I did.
I abhor violence in all of its forms, unless absolutely necessary.
It looks like the comment you are referring to was written by someone named “Frummy McFrumerson,” who, I can assure you, is not me. You can find it here:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=61061
While I admit that were you to plum the archives of this website, I’m sure you might be able to find examples of incidences in which my tone may not have been as respectful as could be, but I am reasonably positive that I have never resorted to the name-calling that you seem so comfortable with.
Now that I have disposed of your crude attempt at libel, please do not make this argument about my supposed “blatant and so painfulluy obvious,” as I have just shown you to be, at best, misinformed, and at worst, intentionally distorting the truth.
It saddens me that your comment so quickly dispenses with my call for respect in favor of the name-calling and vitriol that I am trying to end. Your comment only makes things worse.
#15- burn in gehenom
some_jew
You just proved my point again.
You complain about my so called “crude attemopt at libel” and then hypocritically complain about name calling.
You keep doing EXACTLY what you complain about.
This is how Liberals are, they try and pretend to be above all those they attack and think their hypocrisy will go unnoticed.
So aparantly you were not the one to make the comment I thought you made so I apologise for THAT.
You clearly here, are defending someone who make extremly disrespectful remarks and the only thing YOU can say is that those who give him back some of what he so happily dished out are so terrible according to YOU, but the first one (the one YOU hypocritically defend) to MAKE disrespectful comments gets not only a free pass from you but is DEFENDED by you.
Your last line applies to you, not me.
It is YOUR comments that are making things worse as hypocrisy, always does.
#93 – Good point, and well said. It’s nice to see some intelligent, thought-out comments.
Chief Judge: Linda R. Reade
Address: 4200 C Street SW
Cedar Rapids, IA 52404
Phone Number 319-286-2330
Fax Number 319-286-2331
Judge: Reade, Linda R. 319/286-2330 [email protected]
Judicial Assistant: Diane 319/286-2330 [email protected]
#99
Yes sir it is a clear halacha that has already been repeated over and over by gedolim involved in different cases in the past years when they bumped in to people like you.
You asked if for any crime. The only crime that there is no chiyuv of pidyon shvuyim is “deliberate murder of another Jew” since this person is a “Sakonoh” for the world. And even by murder there is a chiyuv to prevent him from being killed.
Can #90 please give a source for this Halocho in Shulchan Oruch.
Dear All,
Hopefully, this will be my last post on this issue.
However, I find it particularly noteworthy that all those who attack me (and I am not the issue here nor ever was) with terminology and curses that would make the Chofetz Chaim wonder if anyone out there ever read his Seforim (Chofetz Chaim and/or Shmiras HaLoshon, etc.)- not one bothers to sign his own “real” name.
Everyone, it seems, hides behind some odd pseudonym. Why is that? What are you afraid of? Please come clean and let me know your real names. If you call me all sorts of nasty things, at least have the decency to sign your real name otherwise Kol Haposeil, B’Mumo Poseil.
Be that as it may, it is also telling that among the readers of this site, there are obviously many individuals who have not learned Derech Eretz and Kavod in language. You may disagree with me, as I disagree with you, but I do not lower myself to your level and use disgusting insults. What you are doing is very much the antithesis of Torah and no less the Chillul Hashem that I have spoken of here.
And what of the Chillul Hashem caused in this case? Why have you dismissed that aspect?
It would be behoove The Yeshiva World site to monitor itself better and block those who use such despicable (got it right this time) language as it is unbecoming of a “frum” site to allow this sort of talk.
We must show the world, as ourselves, that the Kedusha and Tahara of our lives as Ovdei Hashem who observe His Mitzvos raises us above hateful speech and actions.
Yitamu Chatoim Min HaOretz U’Reshoim Od Ainum…
hereorthere:
I never called you a name. I never called you a Nazi or decided that you are a self-hating Jew, or must not be a Jew simply be the nature of your comments. I never condemmed you to hell. I never called you a hypocrite. All of these are things that you are either defending right now or have done yourself.
I called what you did to me “a crude attempt at libel.” I was not talking about you, but your actions. I was not reacting to something you said about a political situation or a community event, but to your false accusation of me. Forgive me if I used words with negative connotations. Nevertheless, I think there is a world of difference between what I have said and the tone of some of the comments on this page.
Lastly, I feel that my phrase was entirely accurate. Did you not attempt libel against me? Did you not do so in a crude fashion?
We call ourselves “The Yeshiva World.” Is this really the way those within the Yeshiva World comport themselves?
Reuven, you are 100% correct and you are far more courageous than those of us who spout insults and ad hominem attacks without the guts to use our real names. Many here should be ashamed.
Reuven Brauner: Two points;
#1 You signed on here with ‘A’ name.
It may or may not be a ‘REAL’ persons name.
But there is absolutely no proof whatsoever that it is YOUR, name.
Since this is the internet and I point out things against liberal terrorists who love to physically GO AFTER those they hate, I will NOT put ‘MY’ real name on here and under such conditions you cannot find any Gadol Hatorah who would pasken that I am doing anything wrong by NOT using my ‘REAL’ name under these ciscumstances.
#2 You talk about derech eretz and kavod and chillum
H-sh-m.
And yet YOU were the one smearing Rubashkin calling him a criminal and saying he “had no place among honest people” and DEMANDING that “everyone must condemn him or be ashamed of themselves”.
some_jew
I did not say any of the things you mentioned either against you either, so what is your point?
But you DID attack me, without suing the most crude language you STILL tried to smear me in order to marginilize what I had posted.
And since I apologized for having been wrong on one particular point, I was far above “being crude” as you falsly accused me of supposedly being.
And lastly, you cannot even answer my point about you defending someone who started the crudeness and then attacking everyone else for giving him BACK what ghe so happily dished out.
That is pure hypocrisy and there is no nicer way to say it.
#104
I normally dont post but I just wanted to let everyone know that You are not supposed to call/email the judge according to http://justiceforsholom.org/ (on the web its says that contacting the judge makes it worse) idk- mb something changed now….. also i just wanted to make a point that althought I think #15’s opinion is wrong and I am devestated by the injustice taking place, I am shocked by the comments that are being posted! I dont understand what give you the right to speak like that and show that type of sinas chinam just because you feel that another jew spoke out with sinas chinam. We have to remember that we are a nation, and with everyone’s tefillos b’achdus, iyh moshiach will come.
hashem should have pity on him and his family.
Reuvain Brauner has a point. The language used against him is hoorrible. The same people who profess a love to fellow Jews use the most vulgar language against him. And yes he has a point that while Rubashkin does not seem to deserve 27 years and while yes we should all daven and work on his behalf, he should not be made into a hero either. His actions should be condemned but not taken out of porportion.
hereorthere:
I never smeared you. You attempted to smear me, and I responded in kind.
You did say some of the thing I mentioned. You accused me of hypocrisy. While you may not have called me a “hypocrite,” the distinction is meaningless. And while you did not call me a “self-hating Jew,” you called Reuven that, and that has dragged down the level of this discourse.
You say that you “apologized for having been wrong on one particular point.” I take issue with the fact that this “particular point” was a purported comment upon which you attempted to build the case that I am a hypocrite. And you apologize for “having been wrong?” I don’t think that’s what you should be apologizing for. The first time you apologized, it’s unclear what you’re apologizing for. You should be apologizing for committing lashon harah, if anything at all. Or does lashon harah not apply to people you disagree with?
The reason I cannot answer your point about “defending someone who started the crudeness” is because I do not believe Reuven started the crudeness. He spoke his mind, and while what he said may not have been what people here wanted to hear, the manner in which he was attacked was in no way deserved for what he had to say. He did not call anyone here a Nazi, nor did he condemn them to hell. In no way was he given “BACK what ghe so happily dished out.” He was given something far worse.
Lastly, and it troubles me that I have to reiterate this, I never once accused you of being crude. I stated that you made a “crude attempt at libel,” a statement which I believe remains true. I maintain that your attempt at libel was made in a crude fashion, as defined by the 4th definition by Merriam-Webster: “rough or inexpert in plan or execution.” http://mw2.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crude
Do you disagree with that characterization? Was your attempt at libel conducted smoothly or with expertise?
# 94
You have the most intelligent and inspiring comment!
Enough petty talk already!
Let us stay focused on the real issue – which is R’ Shalom.
To “Reuven Brauner,” I say the following:
Assuming that you are sincere in your comments, and not simply trying to purposefully stir things up to bring out everyones emotions, I would agree with you up to a point. However, while I don’t think anyone is necessarily attempting to nominate R’ Shalom to one of the Lamed-Vovniks, we should definitely stand behind him at this time. Besides, even a tzadik occasionally falls to sin, as the pasuk states.
Yes, he made mistakes. But he was alsdo under duress. He already has and will continue to pay for those mistakes.
You seem somewhat familiar with the seforim of the Chofetz Chaim. Then perhaps you are also familiar with the laws of judging people. The Chofetz Chaim writes that a beinonee type MUST be judged favorably. R’ Shalom deserves no less. He is certainly still included in the category of “Amcha.”
For this reason, we are all OBLIGATED to exert whatever pressure we can to ensure that he receives a fair trial and sentence. PERIOD. Love your neighbor as yourself. What if he were your brother?! (Hint: he is!!)
ה׳ עוז לעמו יתן ה׳ יברך את עמו בשלום
some_jew
You started off smearing everyone on this thread and I was the one who responded in kind, NOT YOU.
And “Reuven” sided with all those who have a political agenda and care nothing about doing right or about following halacha.
THAT by definition is being a self hating Jew.
I did not just “accuse” you of hypocrisy I
PROVED it.
And if the difference between accusing someone of something and calling them a name, is meaningless, then you are hoisted by your own petard which again PROVES hypocrisy on your part.
And again that one comment was not the only hypocrisy of yours, and if anyone said Loshion hara, it was you but of course since you see yourself as totally innocent and me as totallt guilty, you will not let the facts get in the way of your false accusations against me.
Of course Reuven only “spoke his mind” of course of course, and anyone who dissagred with him was “saying Loshon Hara” yeah sure.
And I have a bridge to sell you.
You say you never once accused me of being crude just that what I said was supposedly being crude (of course
those you hypocritically defend could never be crude only those who defend themselves against such attacks) but above you said there is no practical distinction, so as I said you are hoisted by your own petard.
And here another “meaningless” distinction, you say he never condemned anyone to Hell, but he DID demand that EVERYONE condemn Rubashkin in the harshest terms.
More of that “hoisting”…….
Tell me; Is YOUR hypocritical attempt at libeling ME, being done with smoothness or expertise?
some_jew
By the way Reuven starts off calling Rubashkin names and since you call THAT, being crude by YOUR definition, therefore he was being crude even according to YOUR arguments.
Hoisting…hoisting…hoisting…
mr. brauner or whatever your name is the point that was trying to be made is that you and no one else has a right to say why or what if rubashkin is guilty or not. we ae supposed to unite as jews against the world because we are in golus and first of all be careful, be very careful of what you say write or express because everybody is listening and watching and second of all what happened to the one above???let him make the decisions, its our chiyuv to daven to beg and to cry to hashem to help us not to pass judgment and say who is right and who is wrong. its true mr brauner people should have not called you names but really what did you expect after reading your post??? its only natural that people got upset. the point i am trying to make is daven daven and daven and hopefully hashem will give him the right verdict!!!
i am also surprised at you people in the offices of yeshiva world and yes i know who you are that you would let such a thing be written on your website. i thought you moderate everything and preread all the blogs. what happened!!!!
hereorthere:
What name has Reuven called Mr. Rubashkin? He did call him a “convicted criminal,” but that is not a name. That is a statement of fact.
You never “proved” me to be a hypocrite. You wrongfully accused me of saying something appalling in order to dismiss my calls for decorum. Again, I ask: how am I a hypocrite?
One of the first responses to Reuven was:
“#15 i hope gd strikes you down.
the nerve you have”
I am merely stating that what he said did not justify so vicious a response. Do you think it did?
The only person who thinks this argument is about me and my supposed hypocrisy is you.
And what I said about lashon harah was in regards to your false accusation against me. It had nothing to do with Reuven.
Where have I committed libel?
This is a very sad day. I have no doubt that at least twenty years of the sentence is due to the fact that he looks like a Jew. His dress and his beard. I know someone who was almost beat up by a gang when one of gang members stopped the rest of them and said, he doesn’t have a beard, he is not Jewish! So what did that Yid do, he grew a beard.
May hashem grant that this injustice is righted very quickly and he look forward to a reduced sentence.
Attention “some_jew” and “hereorthere”:
Quit bickering. Enough of the “he said she said” nonsense.
This issue is too important, and its ramifications to far-reaching to be caught up in petty arguments. Everyone should daven for Mr. Rubashkin and his family. Everyone should do a kind deed or kind deeds on behalf of them. Try to treat everyone with respect. Just be good and Hashem will help.
hereorthere:
Putting this simply:
Reuven’s harshest words for the people here were:
“Shame on all those who have not condemned this man.”
Words of that nature do not warrant the viciousness of the comments that rained down upon him. His death has been called for, he has been called subhuman, a “cappo from Auschwitz”, and has been told to burn in “gehonom.” If you want to call him a “self-hating Jew,” go ahead. The phrase has lost all meaning at this point anyway.
However, my point is this: there is absolutely no equivalency between what he has said and some of the comments levied against him, nor is there one between my phrase “your crude attempt at libel” and the way some people here have acted.
If you cannot concede that point, then this is meaningless.
http://gazetteonline.com/breaking-news/2010/06/21/judge-says-shell-sentence-rubashkin-to-27-years-for-fraud
this is what the goyisha world is saying.
I’m still trying to figure out what Rueven said wrong?
Ok, I agree 1 million percent that our duty is to do everything possible to help Rubashkin… that should be the final word on the subject… its our duty.
However, we all have opinions, some share them more eloquently than others… some opinions we agree with and some not…
There are many examples of what to do… so let us all ask Moshe Rabbeinu what to do… what would Torah expect of Rubashkin and what would Torah expect from each of us? And if by chance we fell, chas v’shalom… what would Torah say the punishment should be… and what would Torah want of the tzibur?
After reading all comments posted, its as if we, the Yiddin just showed up… that we do not know the difference between right and wrong… that we do not know how to behave when something like this takes place… we would be better off returning to the Yeshiva, Kollel, Shul etc to further our studies… do so in Rubashkin’s name, now that would serve Hashem, Rubashkin, the community and you…
that at least would be better than words that could tear down the walls of the Beis Hamikdash…
Tell your Rabbi to put away his political hat for a moment and explain this situation clearly to you… they know… sometimes, I’m afraid to say… we sound more like the taliban than Yiddin of Hakodesh Barachu fame… shame on us for not being smarter
time to study
some_jew
If calling Rubashkin a convicted criminal is a statement of fact the so is calling Revuen a self hating Jew.
You can’t have it both ways.
What Loshon Hara or libel did I say?
I said nothing about you that was in any worse then what you said about me and especially what you said about everyone else o this thread.
I made no false accusation against you, I ASKED a question about one thing I was wrong
about but you cannot prove any “accusation” i made against you especially one I never apologized for and if you will not accept my apology for the QUESTION I asked that was wrong then you are guilty of sinnas chinnom as well as Loshon hara and libel.
Aghain if you cannot conceed that I said nothing any more “crude” then what you are defending, then indeed this is meaningless (except for me to set the record straight against your false accusations against me).
Moderators I think this thread is causing a lot of sinas chinam and should be stopped.
The last thing which will help Rubashkin is to cause fighting over his innocence. We should be trying to do things as a zechus that the gzeyrah should be lessened.
Reuven Breneur posted about Rubashkin; “He has no place amongst the honest, G-d-fearing Torah-observant public. His unethical behavior has been a Chillul Hashem of the first order which deserves our strongest condemnation.”
This is not just an opinion this is a psak Din and reuven is no Posek Hador to be making such psakim.
Only a self hating Jew would claim that Rubashkin was ‘making a chillul H-sh-m just for running huis business of providing kosher meat.
Reuven also posted;
“My disappointment with the frum leadership on this matter is very great. Is there no one out there who has the gumption to say that this man and his ilk should not be embraced, but evicted?”
So now he is claiming the entire frum community including the G’dolim, are not following Torah and he is further calling them all (again including the G’dolim) cowards.
Again only a self hating Jew could possiboly even THINK of saying this about the G’dolim and that is every bit as much not “name calling” but actual FACT as calling Rubashkin “his Ilk” and “convicted criminal”.
Nazi Germany called Jews “convicted criminals” just for existing as well.
Any power can ‘convict ” Jews of anything they want.
What is the chiddush?
Hashem knows what He’s doing. The only thing we can do is pray and do teshuva. ENOUGH ARGUING on here already!
mr. brauner: although you were wrong in suggesting we shouldn’t back Rubashkin, the others are definitely wrong for their condemning you and the hurtful language against you.
to all the commenters who are doing nothing but talking and spreading lashon hora: don’t tell him he knows nothing about halacha when you clearly are not following halacha. it is assur to condemn him and call him names no matter what his opinion is!!!
i know the point of this whole thing is about Shalom Mordechai Rubashkin, so instead of all the lashon hara going on pick up a tehilim and daven for a shorter or nonexistant prison sentence, and maybe pick up a phone and try to get government officials on rubashkin’s side.
May Hashem answer our Tefilos and may we see the geulah speedily in our days amen.
some_jew & hereorthere & Reuven. Hi guys. I actually registered so I can thank you all. I am so grateful that you put some laughter back into my saddened day. Reuven, what was the point of your message? Did you think that anyone would read it and agree? Causing other to talk not nicely (which you must have known would happen… come on) would seem to be “Lifnai Eevar”. Your opinion was lovely (I’m oozing sarcasm), but the fact that you posted it shows that there is something definitely lacking. I love you anyway.
Some_jew & hereorthere. You guys rock. You’re obviously young siblings, which would explain your infantile rivalry. Do you even know what you’re arguing about? However, I enjoyed your illogical and hypocritical bantering as it gave me a chuckle. Now, both of you go back to bed. By the way, being upset at me won’t help much since I’m not going to post again. Seriously though, quit arguing. You’re both right, and we’re all proud of you.
Everyone else. – Do you feel the “Chevlei Moshiach?” If not from Sholom Rubashkin, then from all these “Hartzigeh” posts? Boy, we got to really start Davening. Let’s get the Blackberries & Iphones turned on and to the right screen. Oh, before anyone responds to this post. I have seriously extremely low self esteem, and if you insult me I might feel bad. Please be nice to me. Uh oh….my mom is coming. Got to sign off.
I agree that the sentence is totally outrageous and unfair.
But can someone please tell me why there has never been a call for a huge demonstration in support of Pollard, whose sentence was even MORE unfair and outrageous?
Anyone????
Hello Reuven Brauner
You seem to be the only educated person on this post.
But just realize your comments might be provocative for many reasons:
1. YWN is for people who basically read and act and don’t really think
2. these people tend to be a bit impulsive
3. anyone who writes in proper English with coherent sentences tend to be annoying to us
I happen to disagree with some of your points, but “hey,” we can disagree as long as we keep it from a personal level.
I am actually glad that Rabbi Rebashkin got such a ludicrous sentence.
alright stop writing me hate comments i haven’t finished explaining yet.
Why am i glad.
You see now there is a better chance that he can appeal to a higher court and get a new judge.
I fully support and agree with Reuven Brauner.
SO DOES RAV SHIMON SCHWAB !!!
See the following article:
http://www.stevens.edu/golem/llevine/rsrh/chillul_hashem_r_schwab.pdf
titled ‘Chillul Hashem’ by Rav Shimon Schwab was written in 1975 and was reprinted in the book ‘Selected Writings: A Collection of Addresses and Essays on Hashkafah, Jewish History and Contemporary Issues’ by Rabbi Shimon Schwab, Publisher: C.I.S. Publications, 1988, ISBN 0935063498
although reuven is wrong, that doesn’t mean we have to condemn him. he was misinformed.
also,
there was recently a drunk driver in philly who killed a young bochur. he got 2 years in prison.
this discrimination and anti-semitism is completely ridiculous. its like a modern-day dreyfus.
Next time that we say Shma Koleinu, stop for a moment, shed a tear and daven for Sholom Mordechai ben Rivkah. Next time you say Av Harachman, shed another tear. And don’t you ever stop dropping those tears. It is not just Sholom Mordechai that got 27 years, it is his wife Leah, his children, his elderly father and mother who already lost one son before. It is his brothers and sister and all of us,that got those 27 years. How can we go to sleep without crying for the Jewish nation.
Tate, Rachem Nah, Kaper Nah. Ki Rabu Avonoseinu.
I agree with #15-Reuven Brauner. I know i will be greeted with baseless insults and such but you can’t intimidate me. Unlike most of you, I am a very well educated, well-read, OPEN_MINDED person and most of you sound ignorant and ridiculous. Please open your mind and read the outside world news. Thank you
10-Luchos,
You won’t post again?
Good then you will just have to ‘listen’ like a chastized child who stuck his nose intio someone elses conversation and did not know what he was talking about.
So what you are saying is that YOU are the hypocrite, signing on here for no othe rpurpose then to call other people names.
Nothing I said was hypocritical and the proof is that instead of comming up with something all YOU can do is
more of what you are hypocritically complaining about.
Now go away like a good little child, and stop bothering the adults with your petulance.
TO LeighLeigh
“Unlike most of you, I am a very well educated, well-read, OPEN_MINDED person”
if after all you read above you can still post this comment you sound pretty STUPID to me and im sure many others would agree.
justme says:
June 21, 2010 at 10:39 pm
“Hello Reuven Brauner
You seem to be the only educated person on this post.
But just realize your comments might be provocative for many reasons:
1. YWN is for people who basically read and act and don’t really think
2. these people tend to be a bit impulsive
3. anyone who writes in proper English with coherent sentences tend to be annoying to us”.
Lets see calling the G’dolim “cowards”.
Wow that has to be a real “educated” person. LOL
Next comment #1 here…Oh you mean like someone like YOU who is posting here?
OK.
Next point comment #3 the beginning sentances of both comment #’s 2 and 3, are niot capitalized as they should be.
So much for proper English.
Also saying Reuven is supposedly the only educated (what a laugh) person in this “post”, is not very coherent, since each person is ‘the most educated ‘ in each of their posts.
What you probably meant to say in your INcoherent way, was probably that you (erroniously) thought he was (supposedly) the most educated on this THREAD, not this “post”.
So much for “being coherent”.
Liberals just love showing off their hypocrisy.
Then there is #139 who hypocritically says “unlike YOU” (talking about him/herself, to the rest of us)I am open mimnded and educated.
Oh yeah that is such an openminded and educated statement.
Gee, I really needed to go to college to know how to try and make myself feel (no logic or facts just feelings) good, by putting everyone else, down.
Typical liberal post.
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha
We must all remember one thing, the judge in this case is delivering a message from the True Judge. What that message is we need to look inwards. As I have asked others, is Shalom Rubashkin’s plight perhaps a periscope image of our Din? A periscope is an instrument that uses reflection and magnification to make visible what is hidden. Is what has happened to Shalom Rubashkin a wake-up call to a supposedly Orthodox organization that tramples on the Torah of Parshas Mishpatim by afflicting a widow and using secular courts to intimidate its critics? The leaders of this organization know who they are and if they really wish to help Shalom Rubashkin they will do what they are supposed to and perhaps Shalom Rubashkin will be freed in that merit.
Herorthere;
Kudos! You hit the target, especially in post nos. 142
139, ‘LeighLeigh’ (My, what a sophisticated pseudonym, lol)
One would think, consistent with your haughty,over confident post, you’d at least have the courage to log in with your real name:)
In any case, as someone pointed out previously, no one condones what he did and he certainly should pay the price.
HOWEVER, most of us are hurt by the absurd,excessive sentence he received.
Perhaps if you opened your heart and bragged a bit less, you would have made a better impression.
As the old adage goes;
Better to keep ones mouth shut and appear stupid, then to open it and remove all doubt!
I just came home a couple of hours ago from the kinus in Boro Park. What a Kiddush Hashem! Always a delight to hear Nat Lewin speak. He is a brilliant attorney as well as a talmid chochom.
I received an e-mail from the Justice for Sholom website. They are passing around an e-mail address to the Justice Department. Folks, go show the Justice Department that what is being contemplated for Sholom Mordechai is an absolute miscarriage of justice. The judge Linda Reade should recuse herself immediately for displaying such a clear bias and prejudice towards the defendant!
hereorthere – What are you doing? Why do you feel the need to insult and smear anyone and everyone who disagrees with you? Do you think perhaps, it might be possible for somebody to disagree with you and be still (get ready for this one) be a good jew? Reuven raised a good point – isn’t it a Chillul Hashem to back a convicted criminal? Now, obviously he hasn’t looked into this case much (as he himself says (paraphrasing) I do not know if this is a long or short sentence (pertaining to the crimes that Rubashkin purportedly did)), and I very strongly disagree with him. However, just because I think he is wrong doesn’t mean I think he is a “self-hating jew”. Somebody can be wrong without being evil.
the sad part is if u know the feds system even if he appeals he still get the same judge
10-Luchos,
I agree with nearly everything you say, but I really don’t think Reuven deserves to the blame for the way people here responded.
Your sister(re comment 147): let me just suggest that to people considering writing the judge, etc. please use an established recommended nusach, unless you are personally articulate and able to write in a reasoned while that will be mekubal. Such letters are not the best place to channel the unbridled passion and pain that many are feeling; tefilla is.
I have read that Judge Reade has the habit of delivering harsh sentences. A prosecutor who has been with her on many cases, stated that her sentences are not based on justice, but on her temperament.
If so, has she ever been evaluated by a psychiatrist?
Maybe she was abused as a child, raped, who knows, and she’s taking her revenge on the society.
Sadism is a mental condition.
If we could prove this, she would be thrown off the bar.
It’s definitely an avenue to explore.
#147 – Whats the email address?