4:15PM IL: Over 100 chareidim have been detained on Monday in response to ongoing stormy protests in Jaffa seeking to halt ongoing excavations which protesters insist are desecrating kevarim. Among those detained by police is the Khal Chassidim Rebbe, Rav Avraham Chanun Shlita. Some of those being detained are expecting to be released while other will be placed under arrest. Some reports put the number as high as 120.
The Eida Chareidis announced on Monday it is unwilling to capitulate and rabbonim indicate they will continue protests to halt the chilul kevarim in Jaffa. Ordering a continuation in protests under the banner “we will fill the jails,” it appears police are more than willing to cooperate, detaining dozens of protestors.
In Monday’s arrests, police were prepared and headed off the buses arriving with protestors, detaining the over 100 people without confrontation. Tel Aviv police commanders have announced that anyone coming to the excavations area will be placed under arrest, that simple.
35 suspects arrested earlier in the day were brought before a Tel Aviv court and the court ordered them held over for an additional five days, a decision that will most likely result in more protests and violence. It appears the 35 refused to cooperate and identify themselves when asked to do so by police, prompting the decision to extend their detention.
Back in Yerushalayim, the Eida is planning a major protest for Tuesday. Thousands are expected to attempt to make their way to the excavations site, led by GAVAAD HaGaon HaRav Y. T. Weiss Shlita. Organizers indicate there will be 500 or more people willing to get arrested.
(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)
Join the official YWN WhatsApp status
23 Responses
Any of these idiots who cause damage and waste our tax dollars should be forced to pay for the damage they cause…
in addition, these bored people who get arrested and who are not working and obviously not learning and just being a leech to society should lose all the benefits that come along with being an israeli, funded schooling, money per child every month, health benefits etc…then they will learn to appreciate and be thankful rather than biting the hand that feeds them
while chanun is not exactly an “admor” (and is more of a trouble-maker) he still is the manhig of “k’hal yerusholayim”. Twenty five years ago, when he was a young man, he and his cronies persecuted the stoliner rebbe viciously to no end – and then opened a “competing shul” to try to bury him – when it became apparent that the stoliners were accepting money from the israeli government to support their mosdos haTora. Based on that, now he’s “an admor”. i guess if his “chasidim” are not enjoying this arrest – with the related publicity – they can either bail him out, or alternatively, they can exert enough pressure to have him immediately released, as a leader…
Chazal say, “Talmidei chachomin marbim sholom bo’olam.”
Protests, burning garbage, destroying property, throwing stones, etc. etc. are real wonderful works of sholom.
isn’t it already over, the bones were reburied, what will they get from this?
Posters,
Fools, they are REMINDING you that there is a problem here. If everyone would be quiet and just let things happen, the NON-FRUM SECULAR govt would be oyver EVERY avayra for the sake of “zionism.”
This is totally fake kanoyos. Notice a few facts:
1) The bones are not known to be Jewish for sure at all.
2) These protesters are showing the world that they care more about bones from 1000 years ago than they care about people suffering TODAY under the Zionist regime.
3) These protesters and their leaders always complain about how they are treated by the Zionists, but they NEVER go to the UN, the World Court, the US, Amnesty International or anywhere else. Never.
4) These protesters are like people in Greece and Thailand who are against certain laws of their own country, but who will live comfortably if the situation changes.
5) They are NOT protesting against Zionism or the Medinah.
THEY AND THEIR LEADERS ARE A BUNCH OF PHONIES AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS HEFKERUS.
This sounds like another Eida publicity stunt. It is really getting boring. What would happen if they held a protest and NO new media showed up?
BH
Number 7 = marvelous idea! But I think it might be difficult to carry out b/c most of the media is anti religious & they love to capture these revents so they can show it to all the world. If there was a way to have all the media sit back for 2 or 3 of these “protests”, I agree, most of them would fizzle out.
If the bones are from Jews, then they do have the responsibility to protect them. But most likely this could be achieved calmly w/o the protests & rhetoric. This borders on chillul HaShem. You cannot do a mitzvah while creating a chillul HaShem while doing it!
I’ve said over & over. If the religious Jews in Eretz Yisrael can get their act together & vote for other religious Jews – we would see a major shift in the Knesset & the govt. The more religous Jews in the Knesset, the greater influence we will have. But when
someone is nominated, everyone else must vote for them. But most vote Likud and similar parties and then whine that they aren’t religious enough. If the religious Jews in Israel can get their act together and form a coalition, they can take over the Knesset and many communities. If they can only put their prejudices away, this can be accomplished!
it is unbelievable how most of your comments are so against Judaism one by one you all condemn the riots, i agree that there is probably another way to prevent these things from happening. but you people don’t even think straight, imagine that it will be YOU that is berried there and in a 100 years from now they will just remove your bones because they want to build build some factory, museum, medical, center, etc… how would you feel about that. Makes no difference what it will be!! You think that European governments don’t look at Israel that they are removing bones from all different places?? You think that tomorrow when they want to remove graves from various places they will not point fingers and say look at your own country they do it why shouldn’t we do it!!! Did you ever think how many millions of dollars is being spent by people for legal battling to prevent this from happening in Europe and then they will just point fingers at Israel which we call our country!
Don’t get me wrong i am far from a kanoi and far from yerushalmi i don’t even live in Israel, I understand all the claims that they are burning garbage and people in the area have health conditions and that they are old people who are scared to go out in the streets while these riots take place, but we have to understand the danger of our country doing these acts against the toire.
(there were many options for brazilai to build the emergency room without taking away the cemetery, Jewish bones or non Jewish for the 5% chance that it was Jewish bones it wasn’t allowed to happen)
I guess it’s going to be very quiet in Meah Shearim, starting Tuesday…
Inerpol, finally someone in raising his voice to condemn this unheard of kfira that are being commented here.
To #3 – the possuk proclaims on pinchus “es brisi SHOLOM” so what did he achieve with his Knoes acts that had lots of people like you claiming “chilul hashem”? you know what! “SHOLOM”! Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying which acts are right and which are wrong. However, there are actual “Kanoes” acts – depending on the situation, that are considered “sholom”.
to #4- The bones of Yaffe are also reburied???
To #6 – I hope your statements are rather lack of knowledge than chas vesholom deliberate kfira. It seems like you don’t understand that there’s no difference between a desecrating a body of a niftar from today and one from 1000 years ago even if it’s a small chance of being Jewish. Rebono shel olam! it’s heartbreaking to see observant Jewish people being so ignorant on such ikrei hadas! What’s going on here!? because there are differences of opinions on “HOW” to deal with the problem, why are they rather “mezalzel” in the etzem horrifying acts done by the government? Hashem Yerachem!
To #8- sorry to say, but who are we to determine which acts are considered “chilul Hashem”? This doesn’t work with emotions. I can’t go into this at length, but Chilul Hashem is ONLY when it’s klapei shmaya an aveira. In the history, should it be when the Talmidei Chasam Sofer proclaimed the Orthodoxy, or when the Briske rav turned his head away from Ben Guryon etc. even if to your emotional feeling the acts were in contrary of ethical manners, but since it was done with a broken heart to scream out the “vey geshrey” that boiled in them on the Chilul kvod shomayim, it is then, aderabah, a kiddush Hashem. Now, we can’t say as a klal that we know what’s in the hearts of ALL protestors. I’m sure there is a nice amount of them who are really hurt on what’s going on. And why not say the opposite, the removals of the grave is a Chilul Hashem!
In reply to #9 you don’t live in Israel so you cannot fully understand the situation. I lived in Mea Shearim for 6 years and still have mispacha living there. I can tell you that the hatred felt for those who are not one of them is far worse than that I felt from the goyim in Chul Lo’aretz or even the chilonim here.The lack of leadership shown by the Rabbonim and their inability or unwillingness to codemn the actions of these thugs just further erodes the respect of many many people.
The Ramchal says that every act a person performs does one of two things. It brings you closer to Hashem or chas vesholom don’t tell me that throwing stones, burning garbage cans and causing mass damage brings a person closer to Hashem.
In reply cdkra it seems that you should spend some time learning to disprove your lack of knowledge of what kefira is. As for Pinchus and his acts of kanous he was scensored by Chazal, and it needs a person on his level to do what he did. Most rational thinking people are sick of these lunatic trying to force thier warped derech of yiddishkiet on others. It’s so clear why the chilonim hate us.
please do not get me wrong the chilonim are no tzaddikim and I do not condone what they do.But one has to be pragmatic and realise thattime does not stand still. We cannot live in the past.
“please do not get me wrong the chilonim are no tzaddikim and I do not condone what they do”
In which way do you not condone what they do? If you think it’s good enough by not giving them right on what’s wrong, then why don’t you do the same to the Charedim?
On the other hand, I specifically did not give right to them, I just said that we are not the ones to give “wrong” to everyone of them – to the community as a whole, since there were always and there still is situations that differ from others, and I think you are wrong with the phrase “We cannot live in the past” “Zos Hatorah LO tehey muchlefes”!! If we wouldn’t stand up for our Torah rights in the past (as I said, where its appropriate) we couldn’t stand as we are today. As for kfira I was rather relating to the other comment that was mezalzel in 1000 year old bones!… Please admit on that!
Doing it nicely didn’t work, did it? The Gov’t didn’t give 2 hoots what UTJ wanted. And, once it worked out so nicely in Barzilai, they went on to the next step-Yaffo.
I agree that hooliganism is not the way to go. If the cholinim would give another option, I’d condemn it along with everyone. But, the only thing that makes an impression on anyone is violence, so if that’s what it takes, what choice is there?
Cdkra: kol hakavod!! Well said!
#12: where was pinchas “scensored” (sic) (I’m not sure what that word is even supposed to be, but he was not censored, and where do we find him being censured? God approved!
I would like to add to my ealier post, that I may well be that these hafganot are uncalled for, or done incorrectly. However one cannot call most acts wrong BECAUSE they are a Chillul Hashem, its vice versa, acts that are a Chillul Hashem, are so because they are wrong!
Consider that even though Yosef Hatzaddik was thought by all of Egypt to have been an attempted rapist, RaMBaM calls that story a Kiddush Hashem…..
First of all kefira is a halachic term with clearly defined peramiters not a something to loosly throw around.
And what does “Zos Hatorah LO tehey muchlefes” have to do with anything. If you knew any history there is a concept of evolution in halacho.
Does acting like animals achieve anything? We need to be pragmatic and we would be much more effective by engaging in dialogue and not dictating to the majority. Reb Mottel Weinberg o.b.m. once said in a shiur that we have not yet realised that we are a small minority and we cannot dictate to the majority. If we do it will only cause a backlash and we will end up worse than where we started.
#9 and other apologists: This is not Judaism. It is a weed in the garden of deracheha darchei noam. As to the definition of chillul Hashem, lets just call it bizayon haTorah. The leaders of these groups title and regard themselves as the pinnacle of Torah existence. When their followers riot, mayhem, and damage the public, with tacit validation or absent disapproval, this in not very good advertising. There is a secular effort to boycott the Eida hechsher. I believe a such a boycott is not far from spreading to the broader charedi community. I for one would rather eat Rabbanut, than support a group that drive people away from Torah and from anything associated with it. IOW, if a group regularly engages in hooliganism, why would you trust their kashrus?
To rexford
1) i did live in Israel for 5 years and i lived just round the corner from meah sheorim so i know exactly what goes on there, and i didn’t like it believe me, the smell of that burning garbage and the rest of it!
2) i did not justify the riots i said “that there is probably another way to prevent these things from happening”
To Rexford,
Al rishon rishon ve’al achron achron.
I actually did take the halachic view of a well beknowned godal hador from the previous generation (not Satmar rebbe nor related…)who at a speach in 1957 when the Israeli authorities started with these actions and sent off bones and body parts to Africa and other countries for research, and this posek did indeed pasken that being mezalzel in niftarim is considered kfira. So, its not “something that I’m loosly throw around”. On the other hand, give me one posek even from the ones who were matir the removal of the Ashkelon bones, who were “loosly throwing around” quotes of “chilul Hashem” on an entire community. Again, not giving right to EVERYONE and EVERYTHING, but neither giving “wrong”
Zos Hatora LO tehey…. was quoted on the phrase stating “we can not live in the past” this is a very dangerous quote. this was the begining of the enlightment of the reform movement. Don’t think it started with chilul shabbos. the founders of that movement still came to shul every day and held Shabbos, they just proclaimed with “we can not live in the past”! Evolution in Halacha? what’s that!? where is that term used? perhaps on technoligies that wasn’t invented in the earlier years. but to chas vesholom “Change”. How can someones heart not be bothered when such desecration is going on!?
I never got an answer to my main question. you wrote: “please do not get me wrong the chilonim are no tzaddikim and I do not condone what they do”
In which way do you not condone what they do? If you think it’s good enough by not giving them right on what’s wrong, then why don’t you do the same to the Charedim?
Stop accusing the charedim or join them in accusing the chilonim. It’s either-or.
The vast majority of Charedim enjoy the public services and utilities sourced from the different bodies created by the Government of Israel.
As Torah Jews we have every right to protest when that Government and its agencies does thing which are against Halocho.
However, they are fellow Jews and we have a responsibility to draw them closer to their Creator and His Torah.
Consequently, we must avoid creating Chilul HaShem which will only encourage their non Halochic behaviour.
My cdkra it seems that you really have no idea about real history only the charadi fairystale version. The enlightenment and reform are two different things. There were many reasons for the growth of the reform movement most were external. Correct the Torah never changes, but halocho does. Over the course of history many dinim were introduced, changed or sometimes abbrogated. Please leave history to historians not Roshei Yeshiva.
I never answered your question because I did not understand it. Can you rewrite in a clear and concise fashion.
It seems today that all that counts is one opinion and nobody elses. I saw quoted by several prominent Gedolim that it was o.k. to move the graves, but the others disagreed. I would call that a machlokes haposkim. If my posek disagrees that is his entitlement.
The outcome of the graves was never in doubt. We have to learn to choose our battles if we want to win the war. Teb Mottel Weinberg zatzal once said, we have not yet realized that we a small minority and we cannot dicatate to the majority what to do. If we do it is at our own peril. All we gain is to galvanize the chilonim against us.
I remember several years ago graves that where clearly christian were found in Yerushalayim it didn’t stop the zealots protesting. Why ? Simple the Rabbonim are not in control. The mob rules. Reb Aryeh Levin zatzal was mekarev more yiddim with his approach of warmth than all the zealots put together.
Wow! Rexford! finally you’re getting me. You’re starting to understand that it is wrong that only ones opinion should count and not the others. The only difference is that you want the others to accept that there is your opinion too. How about you accepting that their opinion is also one without calling it “twisted and…”? Heh?
“Over the course of history many dinim were introduced, changed or sometimes abbrogated” (by the way, big speller maiven, “abrogate” comes with a single b). Many dinim were indeed introduced, but please advise me of where they were “changed” (aside from the times of rishonim or early achronim). Is it mentioned anywhere that the “metzius” of “hash’aras Hanefesh” and the halachas of “Kvod hameisim” have changed in todays world, other than in your comment “don’t live in the past?
“Please leave history to historians not Roshei Yeshiva” What are you? a historian or a Posek?….
Was there a Machlokes Haposkim on the Yaffa bones too? Please don’t try to confuse the fellow readers.
I’ll try to explain the question you didn’t understand. you wrote: “please do not get me wrong the chilonim are no tzaddikim and I do not condone what they do”
When you hold that someone is doing the wrong thing, what is your reaction, if your nature is to publicly condemn with the most humiliating expressions, as everyone can witness it being the case here on the kanoim, then why not do the same to the chilonim, since you claim you do not condone their acts? on the other hand if you rather take the position of “shev ve’al ta’aseh”,as it seems you’re doing with the chilonim, then please do the same with the acts of the charedim. Did I explain myself enough? I think I did