Chareidi rabbonim have come out against yeshiva high schools operating in Beit Shemesh, schools that teach secular studies and offers one a matriculation diploma.
According to the Kikar Shabbos News report, rabbonim from the entire chareidi community, litvish and the Eida Chareidis, are counted among those opposing the schools; Mesivta Beit Shemesh, Yeshiva Arzei Levanon and Yeshiva Meorot.
It is unclear what prompted the pashkavilim in the past weeks since all of the above-mentioned schools have been operating for at least a number of years.
It is also added that Yeshiva Arzei Levanon does not offer a matriculation exam but does offer a more ‘relaxed’ curriculum than a standard chareidi yeshiva ketana.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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27 Responses
Those who oppose providing chareidi talmidim the basic academic skills and knowledge that will allow them to earn a parnasah are misguided. The Chareidi tzibur obviously needs frum men and women to be trained as doctors, teachers, attorneys, and a wide range of other professions much less basic ability to use a computer that is critical in just about any job in the 21st century. Unless they deliberately wish to keep a whole generation dependent on welfare and handouts from yidden in America (as one recent article implied), there is no reason why certain secular subjects cannot be taught in conjunction with limudei torah. The needs of the chareidi tzibur will not be magically met by doctors, engineers and teachers sent down from shamayim like man in the midbar.
I would be fine with them protesting this, provided that they also make a ‘takana’ for all roshei yeshivos and rabbonim and all mosdod haTorah, that they may not receive nedavos from anyone who has had any secular education or training of any sort.
Keep them ignorant and relying on handouts. Slavery is alive in charadei culture. In another 2 generations who will be funding you? You are only viable until you run out of OPM – Other People’s Money
They’re mostly foreigners, newish Olim, and it’s taking their business away, consisting of families that may pay something toward tuition.
They don’t really want these kids anyway, but “Business is Business”.
@Gadolhadorah,
Isn’t that Rav Hirsch’s Shitah? I don’t know that it’s truly widely accepted. I think there is a Daas that the Eibishter with take care (“Torah Only”).
They are in violation of the halacha that fathers must provide for their children education to learn a trade or profession. Lelamdo umnus. Also they have no ahavas Yisroel, and that allows them to dictate poverty to their entire flock. How shamefull that these are the people we are meant to follow.
Those that undersigned are the most most extreme elements of the Eda . The ring leader dengrated Rav Shteinman in the worst manner .If they condemened it must be that these institutions provide a valuable service for the religous community .
@Dr. Uhberschnitzel ,
Then I are we insructed lelamdo umnus? Ain somchin al haness! According to you, when they collect money for their mosdos, they should be told that we don’t give them anything, because to go and collect is bitul Torah because The Eibishter with take care. But no, they only have emunah when others are paying the price. Don’t get me wrong, I am a frum chenyok, but I don’t like our leadership, to put it mildly.
I do agree with you and at the same time to subscribe to Rav Hirsch’s Shita, though still need to recognize that there are other opinions which do have a good argument, naturally.
Most important – Asseh Lecha Rav and take that proper derech.
Back in Hungary, when a young man went off to school, he became an oizvorf, no matter how observant he was. He was ridiculed, called names, thrown out of the town shul, and denied shiduchim, until…….he returned with a diploma of Herr Doktor.
Then he became a very prominent member of the kehila, if not the president, was asked for advice on matters he truly knew nothing about, and was displayed as the pride and joy of the community. His money, of course, became completely kosher with that diploma being the kashrus certificate, even if he by then was barely religious.
The moral of the story is – if you want to remain a member of your kehila in good standing, do not get a secular education, unless your are prepared to study all the way to the terminal degree of doctorate.
Who are these gedolim that are so against yidden earning a permitted, productive and healthy livelihood. They are ruining the lives of a whole generation. We in America have had the likes of Torah VeDaas for almost 90 years without any dangers to their talmidims rochnius.
I had the zechus of learning under Reb Chaim Shmuelevits, who was fundamentally opposed to these small minded and potentially dangerous kanoyim. He often spoke about the last Dor before Moshiach being led by (kevayochel) dogs. He’s been proven so right.
There needs to be many more such yeshivas like arzei halevonon. Mekomos hatorah like this are saving yiddisher neshomos. The little bit of secular eduction taught in a heimisher environment can’t be compared to the education these boys would be taught in the state schools. The warmth care and love these bochrim are getting is second to non with guidance from many gedolim.
Keep it up
I am so sick of these thugs who invade our neighborhood and interfere in things that are none of their business. Instead of lighting the biggest, heaviest, most ornate solid silver Menorahs I have ever seen, why isn’t the money used to provide training for the melamdim in their yeshivot to do a better job? They should be looking at their own decrepit mosdos and leaves our professional ones alone. Nobody wants your kids in these schools – you don’t either. So why do you care?
I am one of the founders of Arzei Levanon. I made aliya 15 years ago and recognized the need for a balanced Chareidi education. From before the yeshiva opened, we consulted closely with mainstream Chareidi rabbonim who also saw the serious need for this type of school. Many “yeshivish olim” are not cut-out for the intense all-day Torah curriculum, and many more need a warm, supportive environment to help them shteig and recognize they too have a chelek in the Olam Hatorah. Not to mention basic “life-skills”, as we call them. Without this type of yeshiva, many boys would fall through the cracks or lose interest in Torah learning. We are very proud of the yeshiva we created, and continue to receive daily guidance from Chareidi rabbonim
You can learn more at http://www.arzeilevanon.com
@zbb
@Dr. Uhberschnitzel
You had said, “They’re mostly foreigners, newish Olim, and it’s taking their business away, consisting of families that may pay something toward tuition.”
That is correct, we are newish olim, but we do not in any way take “business away” from mainstream Israeli Chareidi yeshivas. Most of our families and talmidim would never even have considered them in the first place.
For those who don’t live in Ramat Bet Shemesh, the Mesivta has been around for seven years already and the bachurim who graduated and are now learning in yeshiva gedolas are proving that learning math and English is not a stirah to shteiging and being a serious ben torah. That is what is making the kanoim nervous. They are worried that more Chareidi parents will now decide to send their sons there since they see how great they are doing. The rabbonim who signed this pashkevil have no connection to the parent body at the Mesivta or the other schools mentioned. They are just trying to warn their own people not to copy the Americans and open-minded Israelis who send there.
My Son started at Arzei this year andbis a transformed child, he has motivation to learn where he never had previously. He is thriving and excelling in his learning and getting an average of 100% in all his tests.
The yeshiva is just what the doctor ordered, they believe in my son and give him the Cheshek and motivation to learn it is the best thing that happened to him. The environment is relaxed yet serious and the Rosh Yeshiva is always thinking god ways to instill a love of learning Torah in the boys by means of insentive showing the boys that Torah is a priority. I could go on and on ! Arzei Halevanon is an outstanding Yeshiva and I’m proud to have my son in it.
That’s why kids go out of tora life and fined them self in the street frustrated thank God there is places like this that give the option for kids to stay in the tora world and work Hashem and have a meaningful growth I am extremely happy with my son yeshiva arzi halebanon they teach the kids values self confidence and hand the love of tora in an loving way with less pressure it’s a great yeshiva and its an amazing yeshiva ketana they learn for bagruyot and they put a lot of money and hurt for every talmid like it’s there own son thank G-od for places like this.
I need to correct, they do not learn bagruyot in arzi halebanon.
AFAIK, Rav Kupshitz is not from the Eida.
Rav Mordechai Goldstein is American, son of Harav Tuvia Goldstein ZT”L.
Perhaps they know/understand something that you don’t know/understand.
One should know that two weeks ago,the English Mishpacha
had a big splashy article on Ramat Beit Shemesh,and the schools involved.I wonder if that might have triggered some responses.
All of the above very thoughtful and informative comments, with one or two exceptions, agree that there is a “balance” that can readily be achieved in terms of providing yeshiva students (both boys and especially girls who increasingly are the ones supporting families) with basic secular skills needed for a good job. Those who have exception skills can seek more advanced education and come back and serve the Chareidi community in a variety of ways with professional services needed by EVERYONE in modern society. Every yeshiva bochur or beis Yaakov grad cannot get a job in chinuch for lemudei torah and likewise, the tzibur desparately needs, doctors, dentists, accountants, lawyers, engineers, etc.
It’s nice that there are a group of people who sign a declaration, and we all have to care. I don’t know who they are, and frankly, it’s irrelevant who they are- when the RECOGNIZED GEDOLIM sign a declaration then it’s nogeah to gantz klal yisroel. If certain yechidim want to have their own hakpados for themselves, they’re welcome to do so. However, why must we all share their concerns?
As the mother of the Rosh Yeshiva of
Yeshiva Arzei Levonon, it is most disturbing to see that chareofi “zealots” have nothing better to do than collecting signatures of prominent chareofi rabanim in order to condemn a Yeshiva that is instilling true Ahavas Hashem, Ahavas Yisroel and Ahavas Hatorah of its talmidim.. These Kanaim are motivated by simas chinom and a desire to polarize the beautiful Ramat Beit Shemesh community.. They should visit the Yeshiva for one day so they can observe the hasmada and genuine love for Torah exemplified by the Talmidim. Perhaps they will then realize how unjustified they are. May Hashem help all of us intensify our Avodas Hashem and Ahavas Yisroel in our constructive efforts to hasten the Geula! Condemning worthy Torah institutions may Chas v’sholom have the opposite effect!
My son has been learning at Arzei Levanon for almost two years ,He gets excellent grades on Bechinos in Gemara that include very complex questions ,including Rashi , Tosefos ,Rishonim ,Achronim and many of the Nosei Keilim.
The boys are on a Torah level well above most boys thier age .
They are taught life skills alongside Gemara , Halacha Chumash AND how to be a Mentch. My son has eleven siblings ‘We are a Chareidi family that adheres to Daas Torah.
My son,together with his older brothers volunteers distributing food boxes during Bein HaZemanim and excels in Bein Adam LeChaveiro. He was born here and speaks better Hebrew than English .He has a father that works for a living and gives all of his Maaser money to needy families and Kolelim.
May Hashem grant us the ability to “see the light” and do our best for our children . Chanoch LaNaar Al Pi Darko by the way is learned from the same Torah that is learned in all Yeshivas !
Have any of these people that signedthis actually sat down with the Rosh Yeshiva to understand what this Yeshiva is really about? Of course not, because if they did they would know just how much every Rebbe cares about the Talmudic and how every decision is thoihht through and made totally lsheim shamayim. I implore these gedolim to sit down and speak with Rav Sussman to understand what he is about and what his goals of the Yeshiva are. Maybe they would even pick up a tip or two about Chinuch.
Arzei Levanon- keep up your amazing work and may Hashem bestow upon you Bracha to continue your avodash hakodesh in this crucial area !!
here is a link to the yeshiva arzei levanon’s new recruit video- which will give you a sense as to what is going on there.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxy7uuOme4ZGZTEwV2VONl9QLXM/view