What is the nekuda exactly? Protesting the forced removal of bnei Torah from the yeshiva walls? Or is it a protest against an ” evil zionist entity”? Or is it both? Also, are these gatherings primarily ( or even exclusively) chasidic or do other orthodox groups represent as well? Just curious.
It is heartbreaking to see sfaradim, even if only a handful, who have allowed themselves to fall into the clutches of the Eida. Hashem yerachem.
Every young man who is not involved in full time learning should be directed towards NATIONAL SERVICE whether in army enlistment, medical service, community service corps or chesed organizations. This includes over 50% of bochurim. Do your duty already!!!
Its hard to escape the reality that these demonstrations have a direct correlation with the daily terrorist killings and attacks. If even 10 percent of those misfits pictured in the photos would volunteer to join the security forces, perhaps the IDF would be able to better protect the tzibur. Instead, they have to waste scarce resources controlling a bunch of rabbonim and avreichim screaming about the “Zionist state” and the soldiers who protect them with their lives. At some point, the blood of the victims of terrorism will cry out loud enough so maybe a few of these Chareidi leaders will realize the hypocrisy of their position.
Why don’t the above commentators listen to daas Torah, why don’t they demand that Israeli Arabs who have citizenship as well go and serve in so called “national service”? It is well known that the main goal of the Zionists is to make all Yidden frei and the army is the best place to do so, the Zionist state tortured a Yid named Meir Ettinger grandson of Reb meir Kahane and didn’t allow him to go to his sons bris even, something the Bolsheviks might be capable of. The Zionists army has left the bodies of its soldiers in Gaza, the Zionists army put on trial a soldier who did his job in killing terrorists. It is The ONE ABOVE who protects not Zionists atheists who wish to take away Torah Hakedosha.
#4: Please identify by name the chareidi leaders you are calling hypocrites, so that others here who may not yet realize what you are, find out.
It is a shanda that your posts are permitted on a site that has the word “Yeshiva” in its title.
Hey Karl! You ever daven at the kosel taken back and protected by the evil Zionists, at the risk of, and loss of soldiers’ lives? Have you ever been moser for ANYTHING? Do you walk on the sidewalks built by those evil Zionists? Learned and davened in yeshivas, shuls, and shtieblach built up after 1948 with Hashem’s help? Take a vacation in Eretz Yisrael protected by Tzahal soldiers (with Hashem’s help) who are risking their lives for you?
Moser nefesh for ANYTHING?
Where are the chasidim why aren’t they at this protest. I see mostly litvaks and Hungarians.
#4 your comments are Always Dripping with Bitterness towards Frum People. You seem to be on a vendetta towards your people. I wonder why you even view Yeshiva World, if you have no problem getting your news and entertainment from which ever other website you want?!
#2 “heartbreaking to see sfaradim, even if only a handful, who have allowed themselves to fall into the clutches of the Eida. Hashem yerachem.”
It would make you much happier seeing them in the clutches of the IDF, falling to the lowest level of observance, resembling your non-Jewish neighbor. HASHEM YERACHEM. You have your values distorted, nebech.
For your information, according to an army Rav, only 20% chareidi soldiers come back out as religious as they went in. HASHEM YERACHEM.
#3 That’s against the shita of the Chazon Ish zt”l and Rav Eliashiv zt”l.
#5 You said it well but not only Arab citizens dodging the army are funded by the government and not arrested, over 43% chilonim are evading the army with all kinds of excuses and are not arrested. What do commenters #2,3,4 say about that?
#10 In support of #4 I honestly don’t think he’s out of line. We are talking about 10%. I ask you a simple question WHY SHOULD THEY NOT SERVE.? Imagine if NO ONE served who would protect the Jews in the Aretz. We require soldiers, not necessarily to fight, but in service nonetheless. Why should these people get a free pass? In any other country, they would be considered draft dodgers and go to jail no questions asked. AND to answer your question as for myself I find YW entertaining and besides as the saying goes keep your friends close and your “enemies” closer.
how many of these posters are armchair critics? Karlbenmarx is a perfect example of an uneducated, ill-informed ignoramus. “Everyone knows” these terrible, wicked Zionists want to make everyone frei? Seriously? How stupid & idiotic can your remarks get?
I LIVE in Eretz Yisrael. I am Chassidish & my blood boils when I read such nonsense. You are so delusional it is pathetic. One thing is sure – no army or volunteer service would want such a bigoted, ignorant excuse in their ranks. Perhaps you are poisoned by your awareness of your inadequacies?
#4: Why do you think the army wants misfits?
Moshe B – you are 100% correct.
Zion flag and Gadol hador are suffering from Col. Ofir Winter sydrome… Gadol hador has been hired by the Reform movement to hat the gedolim.
And the punishment for insulting Gadolim is…
Arye;
Fact Check: Kindly tell us which rav said that about only 20%, and please supply his evidence.
Counterbubby: You rock.
Some here are implicitly threatening other voices to be silenced by invoking, Gedolim, Daas Torah, etc.
It’s the oldest trick in the book. Neither Daas Torah, nor Gedolim is a unanimous point of view. There are Gedolim, yerei Shomayim who hold opposite opinions and always have on almost everything.We shouldn’t have to feel like we’re in the old cheider with the rebbe holding a kantchik. We’re not falling in line, because you guys want it that way.
#13: Allen: I have to tell you that your advice about the bnei yeshiva from the vantage point of the U.S. really sounds, well, absurd. If it’s so important — well, you know what you should do about it. I understand that you have all sorts of reasons for not coming here and volunteering to serve in the IDF. So, by the same token, the chareidi bnei yeshiva — who are following the decisions of their Roshei Yeshiva — also have their reasons for not enlisting.
And seeing that you apparently don’t live in E.Y., I will take the liberty of pointing out that the IDF has too many soldiers to fill all the available jobs. Every combat soldier needs 5-6 “non-combat” soldiers (known as “jobniks” around here). Another important point is that the IDF released figures showing that about 47% of conscriptable youth DO NOT enlist. Nearly every other youth does not serve. And one more point that I’ve mentioned in numerous comments on YWN, is that the army is NOT interested in forcing guys who don’t want to serve to be in the army. NO ONE can force someone to be a soldier against his will. The army knows this, and has never clamored for the yeshiva bochurim to be forced into he army. For the simple reason that the army knows that it’s a waste of time and effort. There is an entire cottage industry of avoiding army service. Many professional athletes, entertainers, singers, artists, either do not serve, or do shortened service “close to home” so they can continue practicing whatever it is they’re doing. There are psychiatrists who, for a fee, will create fake mental problems for a 15 year old kid, so that when he gets his call up papers, he can show that he’s not suitable for army service.
If you are still determined to see the yeshiva students in the army, I’d suggest a meeting with some of the gedolei hador, and try to convince them that you are correct, and that they should change their minds. Not very likely, but go ahead and try. That’s the only way to get the bnei yeshiva and their Roshei Yeshiva to change their minds. Sitting in the U.S. and criticizing people whose ideology and lifestyle you do not fully understand, is a big waste of time.
#14, I present facts, facts that #11 presented about soldiers going off the derech. #13, halevay no one would serve the Zionists and rather would learn Torah Hakedosha.
Define;
I’m not taking sides on the following, but as one example
of big rabbis fighting each other, what do you make of one calling the other Zokein Mamreh?
I know, I know; You might respond that it was never said by the party himself. Rather it’s he said, she said, they said. Is there any way for us hoi-poloi peons to get by the hang-oners and shleppers to know who said what?
It is completely untrue and immoral to blame terror attacks on Chareidim for not going to the Army – Arab terrorists are to blame for terror attacks. Government and IDF policies that protect terrorists at the expense of soldiers are to blame for terror attacks. The army works very hard to keep Nachal Chareidi recruits busy. And as military technology advances the IDF will need less, not more, personnel.
American-Yerushalmi;
What you write may well be true, however:
1)Why are yeshiva boys who enlist called Roaches, attacked, spat upon and thrown out of shuls? ( The “cottage” industry” who may enlist are not bothered by anybody.)
2) The “cottage industry” is not an organized ant-Zionist leadership community, while the Chareidi opponents is, albeit not by all.
3)If, as you write, the IDF doesn’t need them, then they won’t be drafted. Period. So why the hullabaloo, media circus, chillul Hashem tactics?
4)You mention Gedolei Hador. Please, as I wrote earlier, be aware that there are Gedolei Hador and Roshei Yeshivoas who disagree and whom you choose to ignore . Quite the opposite: They wish to render hakoras hatov to a country who defends them, allows for yeshivas, pays for yeshivas, collects their garbage and gives them running toilet water.
Let it then be an issue with individual bochorim who wish to register & the IDF, not the Rosh Yeshiva. His job is to teach Torah and inspire Yiddishkeit, not wage attention getting drashos . The war and hate against the IDF goes deeper than your explanations and excuses, which we already know about.
#24 All good points..
“one more point that I’ve mentioned in numerous comments on YWN, is that the army is NOT interested in forcing guys who don’t want to serve to be in the army. NO ONE can force someone to be a soldier against his will. The army knows this, and has never clamored for the yeshiva bochurim to be forced into he army. For the simple reason that the army knows that it’s a waste of time and effort”
SO WHY TAKE A DAY OFF TO DEMONSTRATE IF THE ABOVE IS TRUE!!
#25: Some of the people on the lectern look like they probably have more daas Torah than “bklynmom”.
To #24 ZionGate:
1. I am not sure the rabbis condone this sort of behavior, and I am not their spokesman or apologist, but I think that they view those enlisting yeshiva boys the same way you view Mordecai Vanunu. You are probably mature enough not to spit on him, but it would be understandable if you wanted to. They are viewed as collaborating with those (the govt., the army, etc.) that seeks to change their lifestyle.
2. The cottage industry of draft evasion doesn’t need or want to be organized. The less attention they get, the better it is for them. They don’t want to be seen as a large group because the authorities might take action against them. But, the matter of drafting the yeshiva students is a threat to their avodas Hashem, so it’s understandable that the chareidi opposition to the draft is more “organized.” They want to be acknowledged as a large group whose ideology should continue to be respected by the government.
3. They rightly suspect that the army might draft at least some of them, just to “make a point and “to show who’s really in charge.” As it is, there are huge numbers of soldiers that are seriously under-utilized, literally “bumming around” doing little or nothing on the army bases. It’s not 1948 anymore, Israel is a (maybe the?) regional superpower, the more technologically developed the army becomes, the less the need for “every able-bodied man” to serve. We all know that the draft was formulated from the beginning as a “melting pot” for the newly born state. Its nearly seventy years, times have changed, it’s anyway not a melting pot, and the IDF really and truly does not need every single 18 year old young man. So, at least stop bothering those who anyway don’t want to serve, and are probably not too useful as soldiers. You want them to make themselves “draftable?” I’d suggest first tackle the ostensibly easier group: the secular lefty “tzfon-boniim” who are opting out in droves, many by actually violating the law (something the yeshiva students technically are not doing; the army is granting them deferments). These secular kids should be easier to persuade. When the chareidi tzibbur does not feel threatened by the army trying to seduce their boys into joining, perhaps those in uniform will be treated differently in shul and in the community.
I will comment on your #4 in a separate comment.
To #27 American_Yerushalmi;
I appreciate your lengthy response and just want to acknowledge that I’ve read it. Being that this thread is quickly rolling into the back pages here, perhaps we’ll continue this debate at another opportunity. There are points you make that I agree with, but I’m not sold on others.
Bottom Line: We, frum Jews, must make an extra effort to show ourselves, our Torah, our values and our lifestyle in a positive light, a la Rav Aryeh Levin & Rav of Rabbi Lau’s uncle Z”TL , as examples, who dealt with secular vs. religious issues with warmth, understanding and humility.. Even if we’re right on some or more issues, the reactions may not be the right way to accomplish.I’m bothered by the hateful rhetoric and really, even by outright lies and distortions that many of us frum, Chareidi, Yeshivish use vis-a-vis the Israeli government on a daily, shiur by shiur, shalosh seudot by shalosh seudot , asifah after asifeh , often vile and vicious baiting, using words like Amalek & Nazis. It’s horrendous. Then they us we shouldn’t question their judgement; It’s Daas Torah, don’tcha know. I’ll go on the line and even say that “some” rabbonim are scared- Scared that they’ll lose customers, scared that the money will dry up and their institutions ( and kavod?)will suffer if they lose bocharim to the IDF. They don’t mean it Lishmah. It’s control, is what it is.
Gut Shabbos
This is perhaps the only time in my recollection that this topic is being discussed on YWN civilly without rancor, ad hominum attacks, and irrelevant remarks. A huge yashar koach for that. There’s one more installment of mine that I submitted regarding your #4 remark in comment #24. Part of the problem discussing this topic is that it’s rarely a cerebral-only conversation (most conversations are not purely intellectual). There’s a huge amount of subjective matter — emotion that gets injected into the discussion. If the Moderators are willing, I don’t mind if they give you my email so we could communicate more directly. Shutting down for now. It’s Shabbos soon. Have a gut Shabbos!
Well, thank you, Yerushalmi.
Part of emotionalism has to do with the inherent nature of blogging, and I guess I’m as guilty as anybody from time to time.
Boy, I’m just jealous that you’re in Yerushalyim now. Shabbat Shalom
Don’t mind if Moderators give me your email at all.
Join the official YWN WhatsApp status
30 Responses
What is the nekuda exactly? Protesting the forced removal of bnei Torah from the yeshiva walls? Or is it a protest against an ” evil zionist entity”? Or is it both? Also, are these gatherings primarily ( or even exclusively) chasidic or do other orthodox groups represent as well? Just curious.
It is heartbreaking to see sfaradim, even if only a handful, who have allowed themselves to fall into the clutches of the Eida. Hashem yerachem.
Every young man who is not involved in full time learning should be directed towards NATIONAL SERVICE whether in army enlistment, medical service, community service corps or chesed organizations. This includes over 50% of bochurim. Do your duty already!!!
Its hard to escape the reality that these demonstrations have a direct correlation with the daily terrorist killings and attacks. If even 10 percent of those misfits pictured in the photos would volunteer to join the security forces, perhaps the IDF would be able to better protect the tzibur. Instead, they have to waste scarce resources controlling a bunch of rabbonim and avreichim screaming about the “Zionist state” and the soldiers who protect them with their lives. At some point, the blood of the victims of terrorism will cry out loud enough so maybe a few of these Chareidi leaders will realize the hypocrisy of their position.
Why don’t the above commentators listen to daas Torah, why don’t they demand that Israeli Arabs who have citizenship as well go and serve in so called “national service”? It is well known that the main goal of the Zionists is to make all Yidden frei and the army is the best place to do so, the Zionist state tortured a Yid named Meir Ettinger grandson of Reb meir Kahane and didn’t allow him to go to his sons bris even, something the Bolsheviks might be capable of. The Zionists army has left the bodies of its soldiers in Gaza, the Zionists army put on trial a soldier who did his job in killing terrorists. It is The ONE ABOVE who protects not Zionists atheists who wish to take away Torah Hakedosha.
#4: Please identify by name the chareidi leaders you are calling hypocrites, so that others here who may not yet realize what you are, find out.
It is a shanda that your posts are permitted on a site that has the word “Yeshiva” in its title.
Hey Karl! You ever daven at the kosel taken back and protected by the evil Zionists, at the risk of, and loss of soldiers’ lives? Have you ever been moser for ANYTHING? Do you walk on the sidewalks built by those evil Zionists? Learned and davened in yeshivas, shuls, and shtieblach built up after 1948 with Hashem’s help? Take a vacation in Eretz Yisrael protected by Tzahal soldiers (with Hashem’s help) who are risking their lives for you?
Moser nefesh for ANYTHING?
Where are the chasidim why aren’t they at this protest. I see mostly litvaks and Hungarians.
#4 your comments are Always Dripping with Bitterness towards Frum People. You seem to be on a vendetta towards your people. I wonder why you even view Yeshiva World, if you have no problem getting your news and entertainment from which ever other website you want?!
#2 “heartbreaking to see sfaradim, even if only a handful, who have allowed themselves to fall into the clutches of the Eida. Hashem yerachem.”
It would make you much happier seeing them in the clutches of the IDF, falling to the lowest level of observance, resembling your non-Jewish neighbor. HASHEM YERACHEM. You have your values distorted, nebech.
For your information, according to an army Rav, only 20% chareidi soldiers come back out as religious as they went in. HASHEM YERACHEM.
#3 That’s against the shita of the Chazon Ish zt”l and Rav Eliashiv zt”l.
#5 You said it well but not only Arab citizens dodging the army are funded by the government and not arrested, over 43% chilonim are evading the army with all kinds of excuses and are not arrested. What do commenters #2,3,4 say about that?
#10 In support of #4 I honestly don’t think he’s out of line. We are talking about 10%. I ask you a simple question WHY SHOULD THEY NOT SERVE.? Imagine if NO ONE served who would protect the Jews in the Aretz. We require soldiers, not necessarily to fight, but in service nonetheless. Why should these people get a free pass? In any other country, they would be considered draft dodgers and go to jail no questions asked. AND to answer your question as for myself I find YW entertaining and besides as the saying goes keep your friends close and your “enemies” closer.
how many of these posters are armchair critics? Karlbenmarx is a perfect example of an uneducated, ill-informed ignoramus. “Everyone knows” these terrible, wicked Zionists want to make everyone frei? Seriously? How stupid & idiotic can your remarks get?
I LIVE in Eretz Yisrael. I am Chassidish & my blood boils when I read such nonsense. You are so delusional it is pathetic. One thing is sure – no army or volunteer service would want such a bigoted, ignorant excuse in their ranks. Perhaps you are poisoned by your awareness of your inadequacies?
#4: Why do you think the army wants misfits?
Moshe B – you are 100% correct.
Zion flag and Gadol hador are suffering from Col. Ofir Winter sydrome… Gadol hador has been hired by the Reform movement to hat the gedolim.
And the punishment for insulting Gadolim is…
Arye;
Fact Check: Kindly tell us which rav said that about only 20%, and please supply his evidence.
Counterbubby: You rock.
Some here are implicitly threatening other voices to be silenced by invoking, Gedolim, Daas Torah, etc.
It’s the oldest trick in the book. Neither Daas Torah, nor Gedolim is a unanimous point of view. There are Gedolim, yerei Shomayim who hold opposite opinions and always have on almost everything.We shouldn’t have to feel like we’re in the old cheider with the rebbe holding a kantchik. We’re not falling in line, because you guys want it that way.
#13: Allen: I have to tell you that your advice about the bnei yeshiva from the vantage point of the U.S. really sounds, well, absurd. If it’s so important — well, you know what you should do about it. I understand that you have all sorts of reasons for not coming here and volunteering to serve in the IDF. So, by the same token, the chareidi bnei yeshiva — who are following the decisions of their Roshei Yeshiva — also have their reasons for not enlisting.
And seeing that you apparently don’t live in E.Y., I will take the liberty of pointing out that the IDF has too many soldiers to fill all the available jobs. Every combat soldier needs 5-6 “non-combat” soldiers (known as “jobniks” around here). Another important point is that the IDF released figures showing that about 47% of conscriptable youth DO NOT enlist. Nearly every other youth does not serve. And one more point that I’ve mentioned in numerous comments on YWN, is that the army is NOT interested in forcing guys who don’t want to serve to be in the army. NO ONE can force someone to be a soldier against his will. The army knows this, and has never clamored for the yeshiva bochurim to be forced into he army. For the simple reason that the army knows that it’s a waste of time and effort. There is an entire cottage industry of avoiding army service. Many professional athletes, entertainers, singers, artists, either do not serve, or do shortened service “close to home” so they can continue practicing whatever it is they’re doing. There are psychiatrists who, for a fee, will create fake mental problems for a 15 year old kid, so that when he gets his call up papers, he can show that he’s not suitable for army service.
If you are still determined to see the yeshiva students in the army, I’d suggest a meeting with some of the gedolei hador, and try to convince them that you are correct, and that they should change their minds. Not very likely, but go ahead and try. That’s the only way to get the bnei yeshiva and their Roshei Yeshiva to change their minds. Sitting in the U.S. and criticizing people whose ideology and lifestyle you do not fully understand, is a big waste of time.
#14, I present facts, facts that #11 presented about soldiers going off the derech. #13, halevay no one would serve the Zionists and rather would learn Torah Hakedosha.
Define;
I’m not taking sides on the following, but as one example
of big rabbis fighting each other, what do you make of one calling the other Zokein Mamreh?
I know, I know; You might respond that it was never said by the party himself. Rather it’s he said, she said, they said. Is there any way for us hoi-poloi peons to get by the hang-oners and shleppers to know who said what?
It is completely untrue and immoral to blame terror attacks on Chareidim for not going to the Army – Arab terrorists are to blame for terror attacks. Government and IDF policies that protect terrorists at the expense of soldiers are to blame for terror attacks. The army works very hard to keep Nachal Chareidi recruits busy. And as military technology advances the IDF will need less, not more, personnel.
American-Yerushalmi;
What you write may well be true, however:
1)Why are yeshiva boys who enlist called Roaches, attacked, spat upon and thrown out of shuls? ( The “cottage” industry” who may enlist are not bothered by anybody.)
2) The “cottage industry” is not an organized ant-Zionist leadership community, while the Chareidi opponents is, albeit not by all.
3)If, as you write, the IDF doesn’t need them, then they won’t be drafted. Period. So why the hullabaloo, media circus, chillul Hashem tactics?
4)You mention Gedolei Hador. Please, as I wrote earlier, be aware that there are Gedolei Hador and Roshei Yeshivoas who disagree and whom you choose to ignore . Quite the opposite: They wish to render hakoras hatov to a country who defends them, allows for yeshivas, pays for yeshivas, collects their garbage and gives them running toilet water.
Let it then be an issue with individual bochorim who wish to register & the IDF, not the Rosh Yeshiva. His job is to teach Torah and inspire Yiddishkeit, not wage attention getting drashos . The war and hate against the IDF goes deeper than your explanations and excuses, which we already know about.
#24 All good points..
“one more point that I’ve mentioned in numerous comments on YWN, is that the army is NOT interested in forcing guys who don’t want to serve to be in the army. NO ONE can force someone to be a soldier against his will. The army knows this, and has never clamored for the yeshiva bochurim to be forced into he army. For the simple reason that the army knows that it’s a waste of time and effort”
SO WHY TAKE A DAY OFF TO DEMONSTRATE IF THE ABOVE IS TRUE!!
#25: Some of the people on the lectern look like they probably have more daas Torah than “bklynmom”.
To #24 ZionGate:
1. I am not sure the rabbis condone this sort of behavior, and I am not their spokesman or apologist, but I think that they view those enlisting yeshiva boys the same way you view Mordecai Vanunu. You are probably mature enough not to spit on him, but it would be understandable if you wanted to. They are viewed as collaborating with those (the govt., the army, etc.) that seeks to change their lifestyle.
2. The cottage industry of draft evasion doesn’t need or want to be organized. The less attention they get, the better it is for them. They don’t want to be seen as a large group because the authorities might take action against them. But, the matter of drafting the yeshiva students is a threat to their avodas Hashem, so it’s understandable that the chareidi opposition to the draft is more “organized.” They want to be acknowledged as a large group whose ideology should continue to be respected by the government.
3. They rightly suspect that the army might draft at least some of them, just to “make a point and “to show who’s really in charge.” As it is, there are huge numbers of soldiers that are seriously under-utilized, literally “bumming around” doing little or nothing on the army bases. It’s not 1948 anymore, Israel is a (maybe the?) regional superpower, the more technologically developed the army becomes, the less the need for “every able-bodied man” to serve. We all know that the draft was formulated from the beginning as a “melting pot” for the newly born state. Its nearly seventy years, times have changed, it’s anyway not a melting pot, and the IDF really and truly does not need every single 18 year old young man. So, at least stop bothering those who anyway don’t want to serve, and are probably not too useful as soldiers. You want them to make themselves “draftable?” I’d suggest first tackle the ostensibly easier group: the secular lefty “tzfon-boniim” who are opting out in droves, many by actually violating the law (something the yeshiva students technically are not doing; the army is granting them deferments). These secular kids should be easier to persuade. When the chareidi tzibbur does not feel threatened by the army trying to seduce their boys into joining, perhaps those in uniform will be treated differently in shul and in the community.
I will comment on your #4 in a separate comment.
To #27 American_Yerushalmi;
I appreciate your lengthy response and just want to acknowledge that I’ve read it. Being that this thread is quickly rolling into the back pages here, perhaps we’ll continue this debate at another opportunity. There are points you make that I agree with, but I’m not sold on others.
Bottom Line: We, frum Jews, must make an extra effort to show ourselves, our Torah, our values and our lifestyle in a positive light, a la Rav Aryeh Levin & Rav of Rabbi Lau’s uncle Z”TL , as examples, who dealt with secular vs. religious issues with warmth, understanding and humility.. Even if we’re right on some or more issues, the reactions may not be the right way to accomplish.I’m bothered by the hateful rhetoric and really, even by outright lies and distortions that many of us frum, Chareidi, Yeshivish use vis-a-vis the Israeli government on a daily, shiur by shiur, shalosh seudot by shalosh seudot , asifah after asifeh , often vile and vicious baiting, using words like Amalek & Nazis. It’s horrendous. Then they us we shouldn’t question their judgement; It’s Daas Torah, don’tcha know. I’ll go on the line and even say that “some” rabbonim are scared- Scared that they’ll lose customers, scared that the money will dry up and their institutions ( and kavod?)will suffer if they lose bocharim to the IDF. They don’t mean it Lishmah. It’s control, is what it is.
Gut Shabbos
This is perhaps the only time in my recollection that this topic is being discussed on YWN civilly without rancor, ad hominum attacks, and irrelevant remarks. A huge yashar koach for that. There’s one more installment of mine that I submitted regarding your #4 remark in comment #24. Part of the problem discussing this topic is that it’s rarely a cerebral-only conversation (most conversations are not purely intellectual). There’s a huge amount of subjective matter — emotion that gets injected into the discussion. If the Moderators are willing, I don’t mind if they give you my email so we could communicate more directly. Shutting down for now. It’s Shabbos soon. Have a gut Shabbos!
Well, thank you, Yerushalmi.
Part of emotionalism has to do with the inherent nature of blogging, and I guess I’m as guilty as anybody from time to time.
Boy, I’m just jealous that you’re in Yerushalyim now. Shabbat Shalom
Don’t mind if Moderators give me your email at all.