MK Moshe Gafne expressed his viewpoint, his continued opposition to the growing trend of Chareidim attending institutions of higher learning. Gafne made his point during a gathering at Bar Ilan University called “Chareidim and Israelis”.
He stated that while he is well aware he cannot prevent it or stop the trend, he does believe anyone attending college, including a religious one like Bar Ilan, will suffer a decline in one’s Yiddishkheit and therefore he remains opposed.
Gafne has stated in recent media interviews that there cannot be a doubt, that anyone attending a college or university will leave a different person than s/he was upon entering. This he explains is a fact of life and therefore, he cannot join those applauding the chareidi programs in these institutions for he feels that they take a spiritual toll on everyone.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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10 Responses
How many people feel obligated to listen to Gafni as Daas Torah?
My guess is very few.
How many of them would listen to him about such an important question?
Even fewer.
MK Gafne once again shows himself to be a mindless political hack who is totally out of touch with reality. As the economy of EY becomes increasingly dependent on high tech and service industries which in turn demand a highly trained work force with specialized job skills, he would encourage Chareidi boys and girls to go in the opposite direction and remain uneducated and lacking in essential academic training. Maybe Gafne will volunteer to support all the families which cannot earn a parnassah because of his stupid guidance.
In a nationwide high school proficiency tests, frum students do as well and better than their public school counterparts in Eretz Yisrael This is quite remarkable since all frum study only the Torah ,the Talmud and the many commentaries by the sages on these Holy Sefers.
Rabbi Shach, whose gravesite I visited in Yisrael, in a biography of him opined that introducing secular subjects into a yeshiva, a Cheddar or similar educational institutions was detrimental to the frum and eventually destroyed the very concept of the religious schooling. (My words).
Suggest that all frum do more Talmud Torah, more davening and more Chessed—omit secular learning—the Torah was given to the Jewish people as a rope for their survival FOR ALL TIMES AND ALL CIRCUMSTANCES !!!
A goy,
Gerry Mullen
I think everyone here can agree with part of what Gafne says, or something similar — many people suffer some decline in Yiddishkheit when attending college. But that’s true about many other things too. For example, many people suffer some decline in Yiddishkheit when working. Does that mean that no person should work? Some people decline in Yiddishkheit when they have children because they have less time to daven and learn, and have a difficult time making up for it in other ways. Does that mean people should avoid having children? Some people even decline in Yiddishkheit when attending yeshiva — does that mean that no one should attend yeshiva? Of course no one thinks these are the right answers, even if they all agree on some problems.
Gafne’s words might have had more zing to them if he explicitly addressed the many relevant issues, such as those raised by comments here — how will people support themselves? Is he saying, better live miserably poor than even take a chance at university? Are there alternatives, such as a chareidi college that can help both? Does serving in knesset not lead to a decline in Yiddishkheit? Why is he in the knesset. וכו׳ וכו׳ וכו׳
#4 you’re so right. If getting ד׳ מינים or any other מצוה, such as earning a פרנסה would require one to walk outside their insulated neighborhood and be exposed to today’s secular culture, without a doubt ה׳ wants this person to go ahead and try their best.
M your comment makes no sense no one has a decline in yiddishkeit because they are in yeshiva. one may go down in ruchniyus but it can not be because they are in a yeshiva. are you saying that if he wasnt in yeshuiva hed be stronger in ruchniyus?? how does a yeshiva contribute to losing ruchniyus!
A college on the other hand with all its negative influences is a direct cause to go down in your yiddishkeit.
being away from ruchniyus naturally leads to a decrease in ones ruchniyus but college is a direct cause of going way down in ruchniyus the nesset is not. a yeshiva is not so gafnis point remains intact that college is a a place to avoid because it directly is the cause for one to have a severe yerida in ruchniyus. going to work lav davka is a cause to lose ruchniyus just naturally since you are not attached to ruchniyus you will be worse off then if you were atatched to ruchniyus. but work is not cause of a yerida. college is.
To the posters who asked, yes there are accredited chareidi programs available in many fields such as high tech, management, etc. so they would not actually have to go to college.
Does he have any other ideas for parnassa other than being an MK and earning 32k a month?
Hey Gerry,
Would you go on a bridge built by a person who only knew Shas with all of the commentaries by heart yet no engineering degree? Or would you let a brilliant Talmud that spent 30 years only in the yeshiva read a radiograph of someone suspected of suffering from cancer
To # 9 cowdoc:
Those who are frum are highly moral (Torah observant). Lives, property and respect for all humans is paramount.
There are many engineers, MDs, professional people who are not at all moral (Torah observant)!!! Germany was and is one of the most educated countries in the world and look what they did the Jewish people !!! All of the four commanders of the Einsatzgruppen which killed 2 to 4 million Jews in Russia had college degrees. One commander, Oberst Stahlengren, was nickname doctor, doctor. He had two doctoral degrees !!
The USA routinely hires minorities who cannot do the job. I’ll cite a case in point among many. In 1995, in a joint exercise of army and air-force personnel at Ft. Bragg, NC, three F-15 planes crashed on landing at the air base. A number of army and air-force people were killed. At least 40-50 million dollars of damage planes, vehicles, oil storage dumps were sustained. Seven months later, an US Air force Air Traffic Controller (ATC) was deemed the direct cause of the catastrophe. He was judged by the ATC school to be very marginal and was not recommended by ATC school He was black. How many other such travesties occur I do not know—but it is getting worst.
Political correctness (immorality) killed many innocent lives and destroyed ill replaceable property.
You sir, can get on the bridge built by a goy or have a goy do a readout of a radio-graph, I’ll risk my life on a “educated” frum knowing that he would not subject himself lightly to bribes, corruption or graft or political correctness.
One last word, my Robert Mullen, died in 1995, of ALS. No hope, no cure at that time for him life.
Very recently Hadassah hospital, announced that a number of ALS patients had been cured of ALS or had
the disease in remission. Our PC Food an Drug Adm (FDA) announced that the treatments by Haddassah were not
in consonance with standard testing in the USA. The implication is that at least 1/2 of the patients were to be on a placebo—-destined to die !!!
The world is built on morals(Torah observance)—first and foremost—-that is what I learned from frum people–I suggest you learn that too !!!
A goy,
Gerry Mullen