The following was written by Rabbi Berel Wein, and posted at RabbiWein.com.
I rarely if ever comment or disagree with pronouncements or public statements of other rabbis. These are people who are driven to publicity and even sensationalism and I never feel inclined to spoil their fun. However, every so often there comes along a rabbinic pronouncement so outrageous and damaging that even my reticent nature forces me to respond.
A rabbi is reported in public print and electronic media to have claimed that only one million Jews died in the Holocaust and that because of assimilation and intermarriage, the other approximately five million victims were not “real” Jews.
This claim is outrageous on numerous grounds – certainly in outlook but moreover in the sheer stupidity of not realizing the harm that such a statement by a rabbi can have in today’s anti-Jewish and anti- Israeli world. The rate of Jewish intermarriage in pre-World War II in Eastern Europe was relatively small – probably less than five percent. Even amongst the Communist Jews in Russia, the intermarriage rate before the war was low and only grew substantially later as a result of the war itself.
Thus, the three million Polish Jews, the million Jews of Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine were all Jewish even by any stretch of halachic exclusionary stringencies. The Jews of Slovakia, Hungary, Bohemia, and Romania were more assimilated but not in the main intermarried. One has to remember that intermarriage requires two to tango and in anti-Semitic pre-World War II Europe, the non-Jews were loath to marry Jews even if the Jews were unfortunately willing to do so.
So the overwhelming majority of people whom the Nazis considered Jewish were in fact, halachically and in every other way Jewish. And that number is far closer to six million than one million.
It has been well established in Jewish tradition that Jews who are killed simply because they are Jews are considered holy martyrs no matter what the level of their religious observance in their lifetime. All Jews killed in the Holocaust were killed simply because they were Jews. Their designation as holy martyrs cannot be taken away from them by current political correctness in certain sections of Orthodoxy.
The rule of: “A Jew who sins is nevertheless still considered a Jew,” remains inviolate and in force even in today’s fractured Jewish society. Assimilated Jews are still Jews as are Jews who somehow no longer affiliate themselves with Orthodoxy and traditional Jewish ideas and lifestyle.
Kamenev, Lenin’s colleague and a leading Communist leader who was Jewish and an atheist, was purged by Stalin and subjected to a show trial. When being led away to be shot, he muttered to himself Shema Yisrael. All Jews, and especially rabbis, should be very reticent about terming other Jews, no matter what their level of observance may be, as being out of the fold. This is especially true when the people being excluded were martyred simply because they were Jewish. Our motto should always be “A Jew is a Jew. A Jew is a Jew.” For, so it is in Heaven and on earth.
And finally, how does one in the current climate of hatred against our people and state ally one’s self with Abbas, David Irving, the mullahs of Iran and other assorted haters and liars in minimizing, if not even thereby denying the reality of the Holocaust?
Even if what the rabbi said had some truth to it, which it does not, why the publicity and the notoriety? Are there no opinions that somehow can remain bottled up within rabbinic minds and stomachs? Where is common sense and Jewish loyalty? The statement of one instead of six million is the classical man bites dog story that the media constantly hungers for.
Maybe the rabbi was naïve enough not to realize this, but we were long ago warned in Avot that “Wise men should be very careful with their words.” Silence is truly golden and sensationalist opinions and statements can only cause harm to all concerned. I have received emails from different types of Jews in different parts of the world asking my opinion about this rabbi’s comments about the Holocaust.
Apparently they think me to be some sort of expert on the matter, which I am not. However, their writing to me made me think that a response is truly necessary to this new and strange form of what can be termed rabbinic Holocaust denial. This article and my thoughts on this matter are the result. It is too damaging a matter to be left unanswered and unrefuted.
Berel Wein.
SHOCKING VIDEO: Rabbi Yosef Mizrachi Says Less Than A Million Jews Killed In The Holocaust
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53 Responses
Yasher Koach Rabbi Wein!
Wow!
With all due respect Rabbi Wein:
You said, “Assimilated Jews are still Jews as are Jews who somehow no longer affiliate themselves with Orthodoxy and traditional Jewish ideas and lifestyle.”
However, in all those cases. if he marries a non-Jew, then the Torah brands his child as a gentile. Unless the child at some point in his life wants to convert to Judaism, then he’s called a Jew. Otherwise, he has the status of a gentile period.
It’s about time someone set the record straight. People, especially Rabbonim, should do their homework before shooting from the hip. Smog lechochma shtick.
Leave this alone already. Its beyond pathetic! The man apologized and admitted he made a mistake. Move on. Stop harping on this. It boggles my mind why you feel the necessity to keep on criticizing a man that apologized publicly about an error he made in his assumptions.
Sorry syog.
Thank you Rabbi Wein!
Very well put during his recent taping he clarified Poland but stuck to his main premise those outside of Poland where Jews.
Write to j root have this fool removed from there roster
to #4 Git Meshige
How does him apologizing make up for the Neo-Nazi Websites featuring Mizrachi now?
You can apologize for Murdering someone, but you can’t change the damage you caused
Thank you Rabbi Wein.
Again. everyone seems to be missing the main point:
The rabbi definitely made a mistake, but who is responsible for magnifying it and broadcasting it to the world?
For some reason the Neo-Nazi sites didn’t pick up on it until the Jewish media decided to have a field day with it.
Some introspection on their part would be in order…
Apologizing doesn’t fix things.
There were very few misinformed people who believed rabbi mizrachi when he originally made his statement and at this point there is not a single Jew who believes it as even rabbi mizrachi recognized that he was wrong. So why do we need daily reminders of how wrong he was? Why is it that when certain rabbis say things like when Jews lived under Muslim rule everything was peaceful thereby diminishing the pogroms and forced conversions under Muslim rule nobody says peep? I think maybe it is because rabbi mizrachis erroneous statements struck two very sensitive nerves among many Jews. One nerve is ghe holocaust which for very good reason is a topic of great sensitivity for American Jewry as it should be. The second nerve struck is the assimilation and intermarriage one. While nothing remotely close to what rabbi mizrachi was talking about happened in Europe it very much is decimating American Jewry to figures perhaps even more troubling כי אין בית אשר אין שם מת.
Having struck these two funny bones at the same time I guess rabbi mizrachi really had it coming.
The Torah says about the “leaders” who err and the גמרא in מסכת הוריות is filled with dinim of leaders who err. It’s so much more egregious because others take note! Mizrachi did apologize but all could see the gemarrah become alive now! The neo-Nazi groups are sensationalizing this video clip! The hurt doesn’t go away with a simple apology when it’s a leader! The mishna says הזהרו חכמים בדבריכם – that’s got to mean something!
Thank you Rabbi Wein and thank you YWN.
Ha, ha, neo-Nazos pick up on everything anywhere for their agenda, they don’t need particularly one or two Jewish websites for that. They take stuff from YouTube and anywhere off the internet.
Anyway, I understand that it bothers others that this “Rabbi” played into the hands of anti-Semites, particularly regarding the Holocaust.
But I think the bigger issue is a “Rabbi” being perceived by others as a “true Orthodox Rabbi” making continuous untrue and insensitive statements on public forums and he needs to be put in place.
Ty rabbi weinberg. I’m glad someone took me up on the suggestion to get his input. Exactly what we needed, vintage wein !!
Both of these men were always my heroes. I revere them both. And they’re both right at this point. Rabbi Mizrachi apologized.
It’s mind-boggling that someone in this digital age of instant communication would make such absurd comments as Rabbi Mizrachi. A rabbi should be a role model; not an object of ridicule.
The Holocaust is a topic of great sensitivity because it is mind boggling. How could this Perfect God, lash out such a cruel punishment to a Nation, without even hinting to them, what was the exact sin that caused it. Its like a school principal running into a playground of children playing and hitting merciless 2/3 of them and then just walk away.
Unless we can say that Hashem uses the Middoh Kneged Middoh to hint to us, the cause of the punishment. In our case perhaps it was because we didn’t have the proper compassion and caring for Non-Yidden, so Hashem instilled hatred into the Non-Yidden against us.
Rabbi Wein is 99% correct. His mistake is that R’ Mizrachi DIDN’T claim the five million weren’t Jews because of assimilation. According to him, the Jews of Europe were SO intermarried for SO long that, according to halacha, 5/6 of those murdered weren’t Jews AT ALL!!!
This wasn’t just some off the cuff remark either. R’ Mizrachi had obviously given this idea some thought and expounded on it for several minutes. As convoluted as his reasoning and inaccurate his “facts,” he was quite clear and lucid. IOW, he knew EXACTLY what he was saying!
I do NOT accept his, in my opinion, insincere apology either. He said the he has “been shown the accurate statistics” and now realizes he was wrong. REALLY??? Are you Kidding me??? Aside from finding it VERY hard to believe that he didn’t know the truth, if he truly didn’t then he had no business bloviating on the subject. What kind of rabbi does that???
R’ Mizrachi should be ashamed of himself but this is man who has no shame. This is NOT the first time he has made utterly outrageous statements. Google him and see for yourself. Neither is this the first time that leaders in the Sephardi community have made ridiculous comments slandering the memory of the six million kedoshim.
And that is the larger point. There is an ugly streak of anti-ashkenazi bigotry in the Sephardi world that manifests itself in various ways: Ashkenazi Jews don’t practice real Judaism; their minhagim and halachas are corrupted; they were so assimilated in the past that they aren’t even really Jews any more; the holocaust was their own fault; even the (disproven) idea that Ashkenazim are really Kuzari. I’ve heard it all, every canard imaginable, and so have many of you.
This is pure sinas chinam and it has got to stop! NOW! Or we will bring a destruction upon ourselves! I call on the leadership of the Sephardi community to BE leaders and condemn ANY comments by ANY individuals that perpetuates this hatred!
Yira, we don’t have proper compassion for non-Yidden? How exactly are we supposed to show “proper compassion”?
What ” compassion” do we need to show to the non-Jewish to not be blamed for everything under the sun, persecuted, annihilated,put down for centuries?
You are blaming us Jews for the Holocaust?! You are blaming us for not having compassion for nations that have gassed us killed millions of us, stole our possesions and land ( while carrying on about how we supposedly stole land from the Arabs)? Hello, did you take your pills?
We are being punished by God for our sins, reminded by God that we are different than other nations, and because there are humans whose sole purpose in life is killing and violence and hate.
Here’s another video of Rabbi Mizrachi, embarrassing kedoshim who were nebech taken away to the gas chambers. He speaks with such definitiveness as if he was there to witness it, or is a specialist on the subject, and he Rabbi Mizrachi is the new self proclaimed, judge and jury. How can a Rabbi say such callous, grossly inaccurate things, were is the respect and common decency for those not here, who can’t defend themselves, even if they’re not kedoshim, which they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1nL5W4Gv2Y
Shulchan Aruch, and the poiskim discuss how to atone for embarrassing people in public. Retracting a statement isn’t enough. Being such a big Rabbi, Rabbi Mizrachi should follow what halacha dictates.
“Smog lechochma shtick.”
Hmmmm
#22- Know what’s even more amazing?
Mizrachi knows which ladies were religious and which ladoes were not releigious in the few photos available of the women seconds before they were gassed al kiddush hashem.
It’s just despicbale.
And even worse is that people are yelling the classic “lashon hara” cry and defending anythign this man says.
Yira-As your mentor — are you SO UNKNOWLEDGABLE OF JEWISH HISTORY!!! Havent you heard of the Crusades, Inquisition, Blod libel riots, ghettoization, forced expuslions from Spain, Portugal, England, France, Russia, Mexico, Brazil. The Ukranian Chmelnitiski riots that massacred hundreds of thousands in Poland and Ukraine, the Russian pogroms, the discrimination economically, the forced Jewish badges enacted by the Chruch many hundreds of years ago! Are you getting your information from an anti-Semitic site! As a matter of fact it seems many JEWISH institutions (such as the Met Council on Jewish Poverty for example, help many non-Jews of all races.
Kamenev’s mother was not Jewish, but Russian Orthodox. Google it and stop spreading false information.
I really really think we need to Fix This PEACE. Rabbi Mizrahi has many years of experience in making Baalei Teshuva. And he had good intentions. But even if we are NOT ON YOUTUBE! we Must verify all our facts and data. And we must not be so quick to clearly declare WHY SOME SUFFER or Who is Going to He__ and who not. Right now there is a lot of Inter Marriage among those marrying. In an intermarriage if the wife is Jewish then indeed the children are Jewish. But 40 years ago the statistics say less than half inter-married in the USA. They were much more assimilated than when most were frum – but for family, communal and anti-semtic reasons did not inter mary so much. And 70 years ago it was EVEN LESS. In Europe inter marriage was EVEN LESS. They warned of assimilation in the US in those days. We must get our facts straight. Rabbi Mizrahi – Please contact Agudah or Rabbi Wein, etc and everyone make peace to clear the matter to regain your name and Fix this. Indeed anti Semitic sites have used YOUR quotes already. And frankly, should the SAME REACTION be made To Chareidim In Meah Shearim that call Israeli soldiers and police Nazis!? Please lets make peace AND TALK RESPONSIBLY ON THE INTERNET
to #20 TorasMosheEmess:
Please be careful with your statements about the Sephardi community. This issue has nothing to do with the Sephardi community. This individual did not make his statements as a representative or leader of any Sephardi community. Your comment is disgusting and you owe many people an apology.
To Mr. number 20:
I apologize that I can not address you by your name, this is because you chose not to publish even your first name.
Question no. 1: You mentioned that this is not the 1st time a Sefardi Rav made a sharp comment about the Holocaust. Please tell us which other incident are you talking about. Do not forget, since you call yourself Emess, it might not be a good idea to make up a story.
Question no. 2: When those people who dressed up like Chassidim and they went to Iran to show solidarity with the iranians, do those people represent the Ashkenazim ?
It is common sense, those people only represent themselves. The real true Chassidim are very angry at those fakers who went to iran.
Also Mr. Mizrachi, he only represents himself.
Question no. 3: You mentioned that how come the sefardi
rabbis did not come out against him. I know for a fact
that at least 19 sefardi rabbis had very harsh words for this mr. mizrachi. I only know of 19. The correct no. is probably higher.
To #21 & 26
You’re right, we should abolish the words Shegetz, Shiksa, Urrel, Peigeren, because we have compassion. We should teach our children that when they hear of a tragedy CH”V, they should not minimize it by saying, “Es Nor Ah Goy, Bai Zei Zol Es Blabben”. We should return Aveidos to our Non-Yiddishe neighbors, not because of Kiddush Hashem, but because they are our fellow human-beings. We should also repay them their money for their To’os Akim. We should apply the Halachos of the Arbo Ovos Nezikin, even when the victim is a Non-Yid. And we should consider there lives Pikuach Nefesh regarding Shabbos. And we should have sincere pain when we see a Non-Yiddishe child in the hospital.
These are just part of the true compassion that HKB”H requires from us.
Hashem Yerachem, when are we going to do Tshuva already.
The Holocaust happened because the Nazis murdered millions.
I get the point Rabbi Wein is trying to make and I agree with most of it. But found myself feeling rather uncomfortable with the disrespectful and demeaning tone he uses to discuss Rabbis in general.
I’m guessing Yira is a young girl who needs a stern talking from a few Holocaust Survivors.
Don’t you dare say 6 million men, women and children were mass murdered and tortured to death because they were not nice people!
She should also realize MANY MANY YIDDEN Are Very Nice with People of all races and kinds!
Maybe she should ask Rabbi Mizrahi if we should change Halachic specifics to make her happy!
Torah is supposed to Mold You Into a DECENT PERSON.
To BenK
You have not addressed any of the issues I wrote in #31.
When you Daven for a Refuah Sheleimo, do you make sure to add certain words so as to make sure that you are excluding Non-Yiddishe children and adults that are R”L not well.
Do you know that the Mechaber in Hilchos Hashovas Aveido, Paskens like the Rambam (not Rashi) that you are supposed to return an Aveido to all Goyim that are decent people, even without the idea of Kiddush Hashem, but the Oilom does not follow it.
Do you know that Rav Yechiel Yakov Weinberg ZT”L, was very saddened and bemoaned in a very strong way, the fact that we dislike the Umos Ha’olam. He wrote, “more than they hate us, we hate them”.
Yira, I’m so glad that you are learning “moral values” from people who very likely would have no problem putting you in a gas chamber. That is amazingly intelligent.
Also, I am amazed at your love of every fellow human being, including your Jewish brothers and sisters. For example, it really bothers you when one Jew calls another “meshuganeh”. I’m so happy to see you calling for this word to be abolished. Also, I’m amazed at your ahavas yisroel. You are mamesh up every night in pain and anguish, not only over every non-Jewish child in the hospital, but also every sick Jewish child is making your heart constrict in pain. How touching.
Here is the real problem.
I believe that Mizrachi got ahead of himself, sometimes people feel very relaxed and comfortable in their confinement, I’m past the red line. what I’m trying to say is that a speaker who speaks on a public platform must be careful with the words and the choice of words. nevertheless to make such a bold ugly statement it’s a true insult.
if that was his opinions which she claims it was then he should keep it within and how to express it for public view, especially when he is lecturing tOpeople were looking to look up at somebody
All I can say is, he made a huge mistake and to say I’m sorry, he was forced to say so. Of course under immense pressure.
it’s an unforgiving mistake it’s not a mistake that’s easy to repair. the glass that was shattered you’ll never put it back as it was in its original state.
I personally lost my respect for him I did listen to him on many occasions in the past I don’t think I can list to him
anymore
My mother she should live to 120, indeed is a Holocaust survivor, and she also offered listen to his program and she enjoyed it immensely, however after he made that bold ugly statement, my mother was fuming, she could not get back to herself for two days.
do you know what the first thing out of her mouth was ?this guy talks like a Nazi.
now for us the younger generation we cannot relate or even imagine or comprehend what World War 2 and the Nazis world was about!!!
Mizraci, you’re a shame and a disgrace to the whole Jewish population may God judge you..
Coy boy
You should get new heroes! My gosh these a whole world out there! & these are your heroes!!!
yira
Your a moron. This is the second time you suggested that you know why the holocaust happened. Are you a navi?? & btw a goy life does not make pikuach nefesh for shabbos according to Halacha. So you have some learning to do.
To the guy who knocked the entire Sephardic community. Whatever your name is.
You should be ashamed of yourself. I bet you don’t know too many Sephardim. If there’s any racial discrimination going among klal Yisroel today it’s the other way around. & ywn how can you let his comment through?????
To #29:
Unfortunately it does. There IS a sharp strain of anti-Ashkenazi bigotry in the Sephardi community. I have experienced it and so have many others. Denying it exists doesn’t make it go away. I am not saying that it is universal, but it DOES exist and R’ Mizrachi doesn’t live in a vacuum. He learned this garbage somewhere… in a milieu that promotes or at least tolerates it.
To #30
My name is Yerucham Fishel ben Yerachmiel Mordechai HaLevi. Now to your qestions:
1) I do not wish to besmirch the name of someone Sephardim consider a Gadol but, since you insist, I suggest you google Rav Ovadia Yosef on the subject.
2) The people you mention are NOT Chassidim and don’t “dress like Chassidim.” If you are unable to tell the difference, I’ll be happy to educate you. That said, their actions (declaring solidarity with Iran) were and continue to be UNIVERSALLY condemned in the Ashkenazi world… even by those that otherwise AGREE with them on their opposition to Zionism. Compare that to the non-apology by R’ Mizrachi and all the attempts to explain away or shrug off his statements.
3) Would you please provide me a list of these Sephardi rabbis and links to their statements? Are they Gedolim? Roshei Yeshivos? Who are they? What did they say? I read the Chareidi news sites. I haven’t seen it and I would have thought YWN or Matzav for instance would publish such statements. Further, the comment of mine you refer to wasn’t specific to R’ Mizrachi’s statement but rather to the anti-Ashkenazi bigotry that exists unchecked in the Sephardi community. THAT is what needs to be addressed.
As it happens, Rabbi Mizrachi apologized for his statement. And to term this as “Rabbinic Holocaust Denial”, to lump Rabbi Mizrachi whose aim is to help Jews, in with liars and anti-Jew haters who deny indisputable history with the aim of hurting Jews, is disgraceful.
Many gedolim, including the Chofetz Chaim and others before the war, and, later, Rav Gifter, were quite worried about the great loss of spiritual welfare prior to WW II.
Rabbi Wein’s words come across as a political response. What does “Yisrael, afilu chata…” have anything to do with this? If a Jewish man married a non-Jewish woman, then they had, say, four kids, and then the Nazis took them all to the gas chambers, the Nazis would have murdered five halachic gentiles and “only” one halachic Jew. (Of course, if it were a Jewish woman, then the numbers would be reversed. But that’s only in one generation. More intermarriage over more generations means progressively fewer Halachic Jews.)
And what exactly is “Jewish loyalty” that Rabbi Wein demands of Rabbi Mizrachi? Is this (whatever it is) a political value or, lihavdil, a Torah value? What? From where?
And how does Rabbi Wein know what the intermarriage/assimilation numbers were prior to WW II? He states they were “probably” around 5%. Where are the statistics on that? Rabbi Wein also does not address the intermarriage rate in Western Europe. Was that also “probably 5%”?
The bottom line is that even Rabbi Wein, who claims that the number of halachic Jews is “far closer to six million than one million”, nonetheless, does not contest Rabbi Mizrachi’s basic point that assimilation/intermarriage was certainly a factor and was included in the overall number of 6 million. Rav Gifter writes that the various -isms, assimilation, etc. were an enormous problem, that “Judaism almost died out in Germany and the blight spread all over Europe”.
To Anon21
It is impossible that Hashem did not give us a clear indication as to what we are doing wrong.
“Different strokes for different folks”. There are people that a slow hartzig kumzitz gives them inspiration, and there are people that dancing mitzva gedola leyos besimcha inspires them. Yes, Rabbi mizrachi can speak very harsh, that is his nature, and yes there are many people that get inspired by such speeches. On the flip side people can take it personal and harsh words make it hard on them. His words may be too harsh for you but helpful to others. Nowadays most people don”t find being harsh and seriousness their thing, simply because we are megushim and would rather take thing easy, and with the combination of a personality of taking things very personal, it calls for disaster. The harsh mehalech flows better with serious people, people that are more in touch with themselves, people that are not afraid of reality, people that don”t quiver when hearing about death or the deterioration of the body.
As they say many fights come from misunderstandings, we need to understand the differences, and at the same time realize that just because he is different from me it doesn”t mean I can bash him, it doesn”t mean he is a zero and even when he says at day thats its day he is also wrong.
Yes, people do make mistakes, that doesn”t mean they are finished for life. Yes even gedolim and big magidei shiurim make mistakes, and they are still respected, it doesn”t annul all their other psokim or shiurim (not trying to compare people just that saying something wrong doesn”t warrant nastiness).
I still don”t fathom why this thing was blown up to begin with (maybe it just my personality). What is there in his speech that would cause people to get so so upset. He was giving an estimate, it was completely off, but why is this taken so personally. He did not point fingers and say this accounted name was not jewish, he was stating something as a-mater-of-fact, and the fact is wrong. If he is proven wrong then he is also fine with it. Meaning the kedoshim HY”D would get up and walk by him single-file and start counting he wouldn”t call the number 1,000,001 a sheigitz, he would see that there are more jewish kedoshim. If someone would say the first president of America was Ben Franklin and he later be proven otherwise does that mean he embarrassed Gorge Washington and his children and needs to ask for forgiveness?! we are talking about past history not present personal issues. So why should people care what he said (I don”t mean to throw away the concept of history just that it’s not something personal), I think those that do need therapy, it’s these people that get emotionally disturbed when a goy yells at them F’N JEW. Just scratch it.
TorasMosheEmess: Please stop. Your comments really don’t make any sense and please keep your issues with Sephardim, especially our Rabbanim, to yourself.
Issues with the way Sephardim treat Ashkenazim? You obviously haven’t be following what has been happening in the charedi community Israel towards Sepahrdim the last 60 years…
HaKatan, Rabbi Mizrachi has made outrageously false statements about the Holocaust and about the state of pre WWII Judaism. His assertions are terribly harmful inasmuch as they have played right into the hands of Holocaust deniers who have already posted them all over the internet. This cannot be looked upon as a mere mistake. It is harmful, unacceptable unforgivable. There is much about Rabbi Mizrachi that is unacceptable. For instance, his discussion about how women were lead into the gas chambers. Now, did this “tzaddik” really study the naked bodies of women?! I don’t care how many Baaeli Teshuva he has made. The Pope also has followers.
The history is available for anyone who wishes to take the time to study it. I have and continue to do so. There is much to read and also thousands of vital records which can teach a great deal. And, of course, Rabbi Wein is on expert on this subject as has made Jewish history his life’s work. Rabbi Wein comes here to educate. He speaks the truth and does not mislead. His understanding of the various different countries and his numbers are correct!
Jews did not intermarry. Anne Frank’s family were assimilated four or five generations but there was no intermarriage. She was 100% Jewish. I personally know of a case where an individual converted to Christianity. However, his wife was Jewish and his only daughter married a Jew. Today, almost 100 years after the fact, all his grandchildren, even if they don’t know it are 100% Jewish and one day, G-d willing, we will welcome them back to our people.
HaKatan, it is time for you and everyone else to take the time to study our history. I believe this is a responsible way to counter assimilation. Rabbi Mizrachi’s tactics must be shown for what they are and he needs to be stopped.
I think that commentor 20 is correct. I do know many Sephardim who do not view Ashkenazis as real Jews. Yet we should try to get along regardless of our differences. Only G-d and Moshiach knows who is a real Jew.
No, DaneilWean. Your assumption that only God and Moshiach knows who is a real Jew is false. Only for those who were assimilated for generations your comment applies.
However frum Ashkenazim, as well as Sephardim and Yemenites, have passed down Yiddishkeit to each next generation throughout golus. Ashkenazim have produced great Rabbis and we have followed halacha to the letter of the law despite being persecuted, burnt, hated, blamed, and killed, we have passed down Yiddishkeit generation after generation.
I find your statement ridiculous, just as ridiculous as those saying that Arab Muslims calling themselves Palestinians are the real Jews who were forced to convert to Islam centuries ago.
This confusion of who is a real Jew is stemming, and I know I’ll get a lot of flak for saying this, but this confusion is stemming from the need of frum Jews today to create “baalei teshuva” which in today’s day it is very hard to know in a lot of instances if one is truly a Jew and to that, if they are kosher or not. Yes, if one comes and says they are Jewish and their Jewish ancestry is validated, according to halacha this person is considered a Jew and is accepted into our communities as a full Jew.
However, throughout the generations, for numerous reasons, for example by forced conversions, we have lost millions of Jews. Yet, never had it occurred throughout history, to any Rabbi or Jewish community to “do kiruv” until about 20-30 years ago. It is astounding that frum Jews put their and their children’s spirituality at risk and try to bring people, whose Jewishness is questionable, to become frum. I think we should concentrate on teaching our own children what it means to be Jewish and frum as many are so immersed in gashmius and Americanism, and practice Yiddisheit by rote, we seem to have totally forgotten the reason that we are here in this world as Jews.
I do support kiruv in Israel as many factors are completely different than on the American ” Jewish” scene.
Now back to DanielWein’s comment regarding who is a real Jew. Your comment is not based in reality. The millions of frum Jews throughout the world, their ancestors have gone through gehenim on Earth to pass down Yiddishkeit throughout the centuries in golus and through it all, after so many years, and spanning the globe, we follow the same Torah and same halachas ( with different minhagim) It is simply ridiculous to cast suspicion on frum Jews if we are truly Jewish or not.
By no means is this some kind of an attack between Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, as some individuals view it.
We are Klal Yisroel as a whole. and making such a damaging statement is removing himself from Klal Yisroel.
we don’t have to do anything for him or towards him, he has done it for himself.
this will be everlasting inflicted wounds upon himself.
we human beings don’t punish others that’S God’s work.
Some people are very angry about what Mizrachi said because Holocaust deniers now have fuel for their propanda, others ( most of these people dont have relatives that were effected by the war) are like who cares what our enemies say, and maybe Mizrachi was even right.
Now personally, I don’t care either that much what anti-Semitists say just as I don’t care whether they believe any of part of Jewish history to be true. They look for excuses to hate us, to deny our history and origin, and the Holocaust is just another issue they lie about. It bothers me more that we have not learnt the REAL lessons of the Holocaust, and I don’t mean dates and names, but rather that we have short term memories and we have forgotten that we are in golus. We are making ourselves quite comfortable here despite the repeated reminders of anti-Semitism that Hashem sends our way.
But despite one takes it seriously that Holocaust deniers got fuel for their propaganda or not, misinformation is a big problem when Jews, particularly frum Jews presenting themselves as Rabbis, spread lies and speculations about our own history, or other Jews history.
In the vast majority of Europe, the Jews were so hated, they were not accepted into European societies prior to WW2. With the exception of Jews in Germany and Hungary, most Jews were NOT assimilated even if they were irreligious. And most of the Jews who became irreligious before the Holocaust had frum parents, certainly almost all Jews had religious grandparents, ( again with the exception of Germany and Hungary) Even in Germany and Hungary assimilation was low due to the quiet intolerance of Jews ( as opposed to the open anti-Semitism in other European countries).
It is only today, due to the liberal multiculturalism that assimilation between ALL races, not only Jews, is much more accepted and therefore a fact of life for secular Jews as well, unfortunately. Ironically, even with all this liberalism and “acceptance” and assimilation of Jews, anti-Semitism is on the rise today.
Anyone who is Jewish, and particularly if you are a religious Jew, how could you change any part of our history even if it was not your own family that lived through it? How could you minimize Jewish suffering? How could you present your opinions based on speculation, callously treading on Jewish blood and the memory of our kedoshim?
Memories of Jewish tragedies and and the accuracy of Jewish history is very important in Judaism. We observe fast days and read kinos to commemorate and remember the tragedies our people went through. We do not belittle nor change any part of history and shame on frum Jews who are so irresponsible and so uncaring of what other Jews went through that they have no problem spouting untrue facts based on speculation and assumptions.
Sephardicprode:
What part doesn’t make sense? Are you denying that anti-Ashkenazi bigotry exists in the Sephardi community? Or do you just not understand what I am saying?
Read my post above (#20). Are you denying that these memes — Ashkenazi Jews don’t practice real Judaism; their minhagim and halachas are corrupted; they were so assimilated in the past that they aren’t even really Jews any more; the holocaust was their own fault; they are really Kuzari, and others — are common in the Sephardi community? And if they ARE common, are you denying that the community leaders do not bear responsibility for at least tacitly allowing it to go on if not even being guilty of promulgating these kinds of slanders?
Your comments as to “what has been happening in the charedi community Israel towards Sepahrdim the last 60 years” would controvert any denials. While I can understand, on some level, resentment toward SECULAR Ashenazim for their treatment of their Sephardi brethren, one cannot justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior. I will be happy to review with you the Gemaras on loving your fellow Jew even, if not especially, when he hates you.
Furthermore, I again stress that this ill treatment of Sephardim in Israel has been at the hands of SECULAR Ashkenazim and NOT Chareidim. Lumping the two together is a pure canard and unviels in YOU the very bigotry I am talking about.
The TRUTH is that Ashkenazi Chareidim have been EXTREMELY supportive of their Sephardi brethren. For example, we have opened our schools — cheders, mesivtas, yeshivos, seminaries — to you at our expense when your own communities could not (and even today still cannot) afford to build their own. In these schools we have hired teachers and created programs — again, at our own expense — to teach your children according to your traditions. In the girls schools we have even made accommodations for the differences in modesty standards between the two communities.
One more thing. Shas, the Sephardi political organization? Do you know who started it? It wasn’t Rav Yosef, it was Rav Shach — The ASHKENAZI Gadol HaDor!
And the thanks that we receive? Slander and hatred. That’s fine. A true Torah Yid does not do what he does for gratitude in this world. His reward is in olam haba. But a Jew IS required to recognize and be grateful for the good that has been done him, a quality that seems to be sorely lacking in your case.
To wit, I ask you, are you better off in Israel, even with the ill treatment by secular Ashkenazim, than the lands in which your fathers lived? Perhaps you would prefer to live there. I doubt it. Kakaros hatov, my friend.
Which brings me around to the point I made above: the attitude YOU display towards Ashkenazim permeates your community. Your leaders have, at the very least, allowed it fester, if not themselves fanning the flames. It is therefore up to them to show TRUE leadership and bring an end to this sinas chinam. If they fail to do so then they fail as leaders and, worse, risk bringing a rebuke from above on Klal Yisroel.
to TorasMosheEmess:
I am going to say it one more time but based on your comments I don’t think it’s going to make any difference. Your hatred towards Sephardim is just too big. The comments made by this INDIVIDUAL have NOTHING to do with the Sephardic community. He is not the leader of ANY Sephardic community!
Kako:
Please explain to me how it is hatred to call on others to stop spewing hatred? Do you feel Israelis that call for an end to instigation by Palestinians automatically means those Israelis hate Palestinians? Perhaps you feel that Jews who point out anti-semitism themsleves just hate goyim. If not, which I suspect, then you are hypocrite.
I am NOT espousing hatred toward Sephardim. I am against ANY internecine hatred. But I AM pointing out the FACT that there exists a nasty strain of Ashkenazi hatred in the Sephardi community, your denials notwithstanding.
Further, despite your denials, r’ Mizrachi IS a leader, widely respected in the Sephardi community. What is more, the bile he spews is more common in the Sephardi community — and yes, even among the leadership — than you care to admit.
Rather than wanting to “kill the messenger,” perhaps you need to make a cheshbon yourself.