13 Responses

1. So instead of requiring all yeshiva students can be drafted it allows quotas (so the ones with protecktsia are exempt, and the ones without get drafted), or makes it discretationary with the Defense Minister (meaning one never knows what next year will bring).

2. Yesh Atid leader Yair Lapid did not remain silent. “While MK Gafne is in Knesset joking, there are soldiers in Israel who endanger their lives to protect us. Gafne explains the children of others can return home in a body bag just not his children”.

   And how many magazine articles did the esteemed laid write while soldiers were endangering their lives to protect him?

3. I know this is a win for chareidi parties but in my heart I feel Lapid is right

4. Lovely Zionist politics.

5. It’s about time they understand that the IDF is totally helpless in combatting Hamas & Hizbollah etc. – IDF can no longer defend the country! It is the zechus of the Torah which protects Israel not the IDF!

6. 1818 #3: Because your brain is chareidi while your heart is chiloni.

7. It’s really very simple.

   Rav Chaim Brisker explained long before 1948 that the Zionists need a State in order to shmad. To Zionists, this shmad is (of course) “docheh pikuach nefesh”, as is well known from their statements during WW II and afterwards.

   As the Chazon Ish told David BG, the first Zionist PM, if not for their State there would be no need for their army.

   The Zionists who wanted a State are welcome to join their army. Whereas the Chareidim, who did not want the State and lived there long before the Zionists invaded, should be just as welcome to not join the Zionist army. That’s besides for the Torah learning, etc.

8. Olam Hbah= section 8 housing + food stamps+living in B’nai Brak or Jerusalem+walking the streets or baby sitting while the wife works+some cash deals not reported+Tsioni kofrim or gentile tsadikim protecting your butt and paving your streets and removing your garbage+ free healthcare via medicade or kupat cholim+ the freedom to curse those that allow you to get it all and act the way you do.

9. BS”D

   Does anyone know whether the idea of an all-volunteer army has ever been seriously considered in Israel in recent times? Meaning, have studies been done to determine whether there would be enough manpower, etc. to run the IDF and IAF etc if all soldiers were volunteers? Obviously, the State could offer many financial incentives to those citizens who choose to enlist. From stories that I’ve heard and read, it seems that maybe 50% of Israelis don’t serve at all or don’t finish their tour of duty (wasn’t there that big expose by Channel 2 in Israel roughly two years ago?), plus there are a lot of people sitting around with lots of down-time in the army itself. I would imagine that the IDF and IAF would do just fine with volunteers (after all, it’s still considered to be the top of the food chain to be an IAF fighter pilot or a Duvdevani Special Forces Op), and then we can let the chareidim go out there in the world and make money, like they do in every other place on the planet.

   In short, why can’t the all-volunteer approach work in Israel? And if it can, why aren’t the politicians talking about it?

10. Just a small clarification for those who are not acquainted with the situation in the Israeli army. Every combat soldier requires at least five other soldiers performing various support tasks that enables him to perform his combat role. These are known in Israel as “jobniks.” This means that only a small number of soldiers are actually “exposed to danger” on a daily basis. This is not to make light of the challenges and dangers these soldiers face, but it does mean that barring the outbreak of war chas ve’shalom, most IDF personnel are not facing life-threatening situations. Most never do during their 3-year stint in the army. Ergo, most mothers don’t have to lose sleep at night thinking about their sons wallowing in a freezing foxhole along the Lebanese border. Again, many do and many mothers have what to worry about, but it’s not as if every or even most conscripts are facing daily dangers. So, while it’s definitely not a picnic, it’s not quite the way Lapid and others like to portray it, that (most) secular mothers cannot sleep at night, while chareidi mothers don’t have such worries. It’s more typical Lapid demagoguery, hyperbole and probably his general anti-chareidi attitude.
    Regarding a volunteer army, the matter has been broached several times. The problem is primarily one of Zionist ideology. This is because the founders of the state envisioned molding the “new Jew” using the army as “the great equalizer” or “melting pot” for Israeli society. Although in reality it hasn’t worked quite the way they wanted, this is still a good reason for chareidi boys (and girls!!!!!!) to keep far away from it.

11. It should unanimous that the present chareidi attitude is once ahgain foolish in the long run, whatever one ‘holds’ of the IDF and the draft

    START by lowering 3-year draft stint to 2.5

    Something which would garner support and accolades from all over the spectrum

    Rather than making coalition deals just for their own kith and kin,
    and giving fodder to their enemies -a proverbial goose that just keeps laying golden eggs,

    they ought to push for a collective easing of the draft for all

12. american_yerushalmi,

    While mostly we are on the same page,you’re missing an essential
    for the ‘hamon am’

    My neighbor, a white collar traditional sephardi had a baby boy yesterday .[mazal tov]

    The little child’s life (and to an extent his parents’)will be on hold until he iy”h finishes his army service unscathed 22 years from now

    Do you wrestle with this?

13. #9
    rabbiyy

    Studies have been done and the conclusion was that a two month draft whereupon most would go home (and into reserves)
    followed by an all-volunteer regular IDF and IAF would indeed be more practical

    The ‘Elite’ though prefer to keep the present system ,less

    today

    for ideology

    than simply for societal control

    of youth( and girls!!!!!!)