19 Responses

1. I 99% agree. Why mention anything about Chareidim, but there are Halachik precedents for making the commemoration on Asara B’Teves or on Tisha B’av and also we have the issue that it is during the month of Nissan

2. This day is Warsaw Uprising Remembrance Day, NOT Holocaust Remembrance Day. The Zionists need macho heroes and to them the Warsaw Uprising represents what they seek. So they call it Holocaust Remembrance Day.

3. zach- There are also halachik precedents for mourning events during other days in the year as megilas ta’anis was full of fast days throughout the year to mourn specific incidents.

   Any many Jews observe nihugei aveilus for sefirah during Nissan, so while it is a happy month and we don’t say tachanun, it doesn’t mean that we can’t mourn national tragedies.

4. There is absolutely zero halachik issue with yom hashoa falling out on nissan bec yom hashoa has no halachik status of a day of mourning its a national day of rememberence and not to be sad specifically and even if there would be sadness it has no halachik status. And making it on tisha baav has more halachik issues bec even though on tisha baav we are noheg to remember tragedies but we dont make it an official day of mourning for those tragedies just for tidha baav. But this guys idea to make it an official thing on tisha baav is problematic

5. The Israeli memorial days (one for the holocaust, the other for soldiers) are totally “un-Jewish” in their observance. It was intended as such. Jews would observe tragedies by fasting, davening, learning mishnayos, etc., not with military ceremonies. Indeed the purpose of estalishing un-Jewish holidays was to further the goal of moving Israel away from Torah and away from ha-Shem.

6. Tisha B’av is the traditional day to mourn all tragedies such as Crusades, Tach V’Tat, Burning of the Talmud. The Holocaust is in the same category even though it was the worst of all besides the Destruction.

7. YWN 15-0417
   Doesn’t anyone remember? This is not new; it has been proposed often over the years, including officially by Rav Soloveitchik, that Yom Shoah be moved to Tisha B’Av, and Begin was ready to do it. Many though, including rabbanim, felt that public commemoration on Tisha B’Av would detract from Churban HaBayis, and it was important that commemoration be done during the school year, to provide more learning opportunity for children.  It was therefore decided that it was better to keep it where it is, during Sefira, when many hold miktzas aveilus (which is relatively recent, somewhat refuting the argument against any innovation at all) anyway. BTW Note to above: Your comment is fine, but Megilas Taanis lists days when we don’t (or “didn’t,” since it’s batel) fast – because of HAPPY events. 

8. #3: Are you equating takanos chazal and minhagim established by our holy Sages throughout the generations to political “halachic rulings” concocted by rabbis who wanted to further the zionist agenda? For the same reason, you cannot bring any proof from megilas ta’anis which was promulgated by the chachmei haTorah during the days of Bais Sheni. And in any case, the halacha is that megilas ta’anis is batel.
   In general, the state of israel “needs” the farcical holocaust remembrance day to precede their independence day. This is supposed to “prove” the relationship between the holocaust and the establishing of the state of israel. As if to say, “see what happens when there is no “Jewish” state?” Nearly 20 years ago, while on a bus near petach tikva, the siren sounded. I didn’t stand up — I have back problems. Another passenger on the bus delivered a punch to my left shoulder and cursed me. Since then, I am even more “makpid” than before not to stand up, although sometimes I say some tehillim.

9. This date was chosen by the tzionim who lack knowledge in halocha. This would be called a Hallmark date. Meaning, why do we have this “holiday” on this date? Because Hallmark says so.

10. Simcha

    I enjoyed your comments, but we cant base halachik decisions on emotions or what we think should be done. And yes, while Nissan is a “happy” month, none of the Gedoli Dor gave their approval for this day. And since days of national mourning or simcha are decided by them since Moshe Rabbinu – it’s probably best to listen and not do what we want because it seem like the right thing to do. I do know of a Rav who disagrees with the day but still stands during the siren.

    Shabbat Shalom

11. The whole Haredi side of the hilocaust is pretty much ignored in the national Israeli commeration.

12. Toras makes no difference what it’s called you still won’t remember

13. Changing names not changing makes no difference there are Jews that don’t want to remember these are the same Jews that understand our enemies and fell sorry for them.
    As they led us to the gas chambers
    Never forget it was the German Jews that voted for hitler Because they were Germans not Jews. Similar to righter and several respondents

14. Begin was asked by the Moetzes of America to abolish Holocaust Remembrance Day{since the Holocaust should be perceived as another horrific catastrophe in our long continuing exile] and he,jewish to his marrow, agreed .

    Upon returning,however, he found little support for the proposal , so he decided to drop it.

    #13

    Whoa

    Hitler in the ’30s fooled a lot of people (who possibly wanted to be fooled)

    Canadian PM Mackenzie King considered Hitler “really one loves truly his fellow men” and “a sympathetic soul”

15. American YErushalmi- No offense, but that’s a disgusting practice of yours. Derech Eretz Kadma LaTorah. Deracheha darchei Noam. Is Yom HaShoah the ideal day to commemorate the Holocaust? Probably not. Was it created by Rabbonim or even religious Jews or Yirei Shamayim? Certainly not. But it is a day that is emotional for many many people, commemorating the millions of OUR people who were murdered… and you are “makpid” to disrespect them all out of principle? Disgusting.

16. The yom hashoah is all about taking Hashem out of the holocaust, much like zionism is all about taking Hashem and religion out of being Jewish. And they think we’re disrespectful for not observing it like they do (a picnic on the beach and political speeches).

17. american_yerushalmi #8: +1. You’re 100% correct.

    simcha613: When the chilonim show us some sensitivity and don’t drive in our neighborhood on Shabbos or show some sorrow on Tisha B’Av, we can talk about this conceived Warsaw Uprising Remembrance Day.

18. yayin yashan- yom hashoah was not about taking Hashem out of the Holocaust. The foudners didn’t necessarily recognize Hashem’s hand in it in the first place, so they don’t need to a day to actively do it. It was a day to commemorate those who were killed, albeit in a secular fashion. And yes, not standing up for the siren is completely disrespectful and neged HaTorah. Derech Eretz Kadmah LaTorah. Don’t spit in someone’s face in the name of God. Deracheha Darchei Noam. You’ll do better work for Hashem by empathizing with your secular Jewish bretheren, showing them you care about them, that we’re all part of one nation, and bringing them closer to God… not haughtily looking down on them at the way they mourn our brothers who were killed.

19. #15 Simcha613: you’re entitled to your opinion, but I happen to feel that what’s disgusting is a gentile-styled commemoration. An idiotic non-Torah memorial that does nothing at all for the souls of the kedoshim and might even cause them tza’ar (anguish). You admitted that Yom HaShoah is NOT the ideal day to commemorate the Holocaust and that Rabbonim or even religious Jews or Yirei Shamayim did NOT create it. Still somehow, my not participating in this senseless goyishe farce is disgusting. I suppose I’m “disrespecting” the stranger who committed (at least) a misdemeanor by punching me (we won’t get into the cursing). He’s lucky I didn’t press charges for assault. One thing’s for sure – I didn’t disrespect anyone who otherwise deserved it.