The split inside the Eida Chareidi continues surrounding ongoing construction and accusations of compromising kevarim at a number of sites. Another incident occurred on motzei Shabbos Parshas Terumah, when Dovid Krauss, a teenage son of Yolish Krauss during the levaya of HaGaon Rebi Levi HaKohen Rabinowitz ZT”L began shouting out against Eida Chareidis Ravaad HaGaon HaRav Moshe Sternbuch Shlita.
According to eyewitness reports, Krauss began shouting at the Ravaad during the levaya, decrying what he calls “the chilul kevarim” sanctioned by Rav Sternbuch. A number of persons taking part in the levaya responded harshly against insults directed at the talmid chacham. They began shouting at Krauss and then held him and cut off his peyos.
The younger Krauss required medical attention but refused transportation to a hospital by Magen David Adom and got to a hospital on his own.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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36 Responses
Meanwhile several parties in the Keneset are savouring the prospect of mass roundups of hareidim, and forcing most hareidim to either give up the hareidi lifestyle or flee the country.
Fortunately those parties are doing poorly in the polls, or in the case of Bayit Yehudi, are having second thoughts about whether waging war on the hareidim is really worth the prospect of a Palestinian state in the West Bank.
Hashem yerachem! The last thing we need is machlokes…
Verbal abuse must never be met with physical response. Period!!
This is totally unacceptable and in this case was a terrible Kitrug for the deceased individual.
Akuperma what are you saying? Your comments never make sense so if you’ve got nothing good to say then don’t say anything.
@147
Da’as Torah hepech leda’as ba’aley batim. ..
From where do you get your vast wisdom do give such bold statements. In any case some things are not just ‘verbal abuse’. This is mevazeh kovod Shomayim.
You may also want to rewrite the Torah chas vesholom. What does
the Torah say about
147 your nuts in the other article your busy with wat you call sinas chinam here with another outrages comment your probaly the kind of guy whos busy with the words love tolerant understaning acceptable all used in your own understading
So Krauss yelled at the Ga’avad and they beat him up. This is news? Why the surprise? You reap what you sow.
Post #3, 147, don’t get carried away. Yes it’s awful and yes physical reaction isn’t condoned and ought not be tolerated, however I won’t call it “a terrible kitrug for the deceased!”
Machlokes when it brings ‘pirud’ among Yidden is horrific and stents the geula but this is particularly horrible in that a Saar B’Yisroel and an amazing Gaon was made to be embarrassed in public: the Torah was riduculed, r”l and THAT requires a ‘potch’ reaction. That Krauss fellow got his due. And I would have had him placed in Hadassah hospital with a female doctor and female nurses to teach him what to expect.
Even in case where you don’t agree with a gadol batorah, even when other gedolim argue with him, to voice your opinion in front of him is chilul kovod hatorah, and may not be tolerated.
akuperma, you sound as if you live here in Israel – you truly read the political map correctly in ALL your comments.
Gafni and his cohorts don’t realise that if they give a finger (even the tiniest pinky), the army will grab a hand, arm, shoulder and the rest!
You give in a tiny bit, and slowly but surely it becomes the norm, and then they add more and more. First it’s ‘only’ 5,000 recruits. for the year after they added an additional 1,300 and year three even more until year 5 when there must be around 10,000 Chareidi soldiers.
RABBOISAI, do you know what that means?! it means closing the yeshivos!
You bet, Gafni’s grandson will NEVER get recruited – he’ll pay thousands to be pushed off the list…
Hey, does that sound like the cantonists by any chance?!
we met the young krauss in terem last night being melave someone. his peyos are as long as they were a day before. He had a grin from ear to ear; loves this action. We used to employ him so he can have less time doing all this but he told us yesterday that he can’t work; he has a lot to do “lsheim shamayim”…lol!
147-> Really? Verbal abuse must never be met with physical response? But see Shemos 21:17. And then try googling the phrase “turn the other cheek”.
#3 147 – I don’t know about others, but I’m sure many agree with me that when a young bachur speaks with outright disrespect to a Gadol b’Yisrael he deserves a smack in the face. Beyond that hopefully isn’t necessary. I assume that those that lashed out at him probably reacted over built up tension against the highly radical, highly violent Krauss family. Granted, they probably over reacted to his comments, but the reasoning can be understood. If you don’t know what I am talking about then perhaps do a little research before commenting.
akuperma: This is say a lot, but that is the one of the sickest nonsense comments you’ve ever made.
The bottom line here, people who can behave in such a manner, especially while giving a Hesped, should be put in Cheirim. What a despicable excuse for a human being.
to 147: המבזה תלמיד חכם אין לו חלק בעולם הבא
One who disgraces a Torah scholar, loses his olam haba. This fellow did in public. What he got thus far is only a forspeiss of what awaits him in olam haba.
What are you talking about 147. Of course they were right to object forcefully to bizui talmid chocham. Of course it shouldn’t have happened at the levaya. But one cannot stand by without strong protest when a talmid chocham is put to shame. Especially someone as great as Rav Moishe Stwenbuch!
147- thank you for going to shamayim for us and telling us what kind of kitrug this was.
which emergency room did he go to? ramale? tulkarem? i dare him to open his big mouth and insult some of his friendly mullahs while he’s there. you see, he has more respect for the mullahs than he has for talmidey chachamim!
Why do issues involving the Eida ha’Ra’a always involve violence? They started with external violence towards those they don’t agree with, then turned it internally – when there are disagreements between members of that misguided sect, they now use violence to settle those as well.
You reap what you sow…
an Israeli Yid
IsraeliYid your comments are uncalled for. You may not malign a sector of klal yisroel the way you have done.
justasec: israeliyid has a long history here of attacking anyone and everyone that doesn’t subscribe to his extreme left-wing “religious” positions. Whenever he’s called to the carpet on his venomous comments he says he’s of chareidi background. My foot. Such people from the erev rav should check their yichus or lack thereof. But don’t worry too much; his ilk have been attacking Torah Judaism since Has Sinai. We have overcome all his ideological predecessors as we shall him.
SORRY, anIsraeliYid ,old man ,et al,
HaGaon HaRav Moshe Sternbuch is more than glad to take blows if that is the cost of a energetic,stronger society
The Eidah can ill afford to turn into pacifists in the Kulturkampf
To paraphrase Moshe Dayan(alluding to Sharon in ’56) :It’s better to have wild steeds that need on occasion to be reined in ,than plodding old hacks
This is a very sad story!
The Rav who is known as a big Talmid Chochom and a Posak until something went wrong, the Rav was the first and maybe the only one, who said that it’s o.k. to dig the Jewish graves in Beit Shemesh. I don’t begin to understand why one may uproute Jewish graves, but I don’t want to get involved.
Since then the right wingers are after him for allowing the digging of the graves that have jewish bodies buried there.
Who am I to judge who is right and who is wrong? (I leave that totally up to Hashem) but I can understand why they chose to go after him, perhaps to try stop the digging of the Jewish graves in “Shneller” in Geulah that he also allowed them to do with out checking the site first, even though that the entire Badatz of the Edah ruled against him.
I happened to have been there by chance and chose to keep quiet out of respect, but I’m still not sure that he is correct in his ruling, I leave that up to Hashem…
Chessed – since you can’t begin to understand, perhaps you should keep quiet rather than say things against a gadol b’yisrael.
justasec and ujm – I have no issue standing behind my words about this sect. They began by justifying violence against other Jews whom they disagreed with – and once they gave a Hechsher to violence against some Jews, it is a short trip to justifying it against other Jews – even those of your own cult sect whom you disagree with.
I am a true believer in Eilu v’Eilu – but I also agree with Derachecha Darkei Noam. As to the greatnes of one individual – Chazal say at the end of Berachos that “Talmidei Chachamim hevei marbim shalom ba’olam” – the mark of a Talmid Chacham is that he is Marbeh Shalom in the world. What does that say of an individual, a group, or the leaders of a group that is Marbeh Sina against other Jews who are Shomerei Torah u’Mitzvos? And it’s not only the “Treief Zionists” or MO that they’re Marbeh Sina against – just look at the treatment of Rav Shteinmen by these same groups.
Like I said, you reap what you sow – and these are some poisoned oats you’ve sown.
an (unapologetic) Israeli Yid
Israeli #25, you “have no issue standing behind your words” against any sect other than your own cult. You’ve demonstrated that time and again over the last over eight years here. Including your false attributions of violence to everyone you hate. They’ve never justified violence against anyone, externally or internally. Your version of eilu v’eilu is your acceptance of both reform and conservative. Anyone outside of your machne need not apply for your dole of darkei noam.
TO # 24
I DID NOT SAY I DON’T UNDERSTAND, BECAUSE I actually do understand that someone close to the Rav got paid off, in order to convince Rav Moshe Sternbuch Shlita that he should give a Hetter to dig up the Jewish graves, and so the Rav did, without any prior investigation.
It’s unheard of that a Jewish Rav would go against the Psak of his own Bais Din and allow the digging of Jewish graves, it’s probably the biggest Chilul Hashem of our times, but because I wanted to be polite I chose not to get involved! and I am still not getting involved, but this much I will tell you, that no matter what, it’s a disgrace to dig Yiddishe graves.
#26 ujm – False ad hominem attacks on me will not change the facts. I don’t “attribute violence to those I hate” for two reasons – first, I don’t hate my fellow Jews (though I may well hate their sinful ways), and second, I don’t “attribute” violence to anyone – I only mention violence that has actually taken place, be it in Me’ah She’arim or RBS B, generally instigated by members of the Eda Ha’ra’a on account of whatever the issue of the day might be. I’ve yet to see Pashkevilim from the leadership of this group condemning the violence against outsiders or even saying that such violence is “not in our name” – even though it’s 100% clear that it’s their followers carrying out the violence.
As to Eilu v’Eilu – I have no problem saying that Reform and Conservative “Judaism” is NOT Judaism, so there’s clearly no Eilu v’Eilu. You, however, seem to lack an understanding of this – if I happen to follow Rav Teichtel HY”D or Rav Kook ZT”L, and you happen to follow R’ Yoilish Teitelbaum ZT”L, that’s fine – that’s Eilu v’Eilu. Where the Eida Ha’ra’a has crossed a line is in resorting to violence – and that’s what’s now causing them to experience blowback.
an Israeli Yid
Chesssed- This is ridiculous. Anyone other than the money loving Asra Kadisha and apparently you who are mevazeh rav Shternbuch (hamevazeh talmid chocham ein lo chelek lolam haba), knows that there are no Jewish graves there. Rav Shterbuch went and you if you had the slightest amount of intellectual honesty, which you don’t, could go also and see clearly that there are no Jewish graves. I daven that you should do Teshuvah and beg Mechilah from Rav Shterbuch in the hope that you can again merit Olam Habah. But it appears that you are also one of the Asra Kadisha who are only mad about these graves because the developers refused to pay them off like everyone else did when there are no graves. Read Rav Shterbuchs letter that he put out last week about people like you and how you make him happy because you are giving him more schar in olam habah for upholding the real torah and not bending to fakers such as you.
anIsraeliYid 28: ujm is 100% correct. I’ve too observed your behavior denigrating anyone not subscribing to your liberal daati views. The Eida has never engaged in violence. On the other hand the zionists have and continue to engage in violence. So what you reap, Mr. Israeli, are things like Gush Katif, world condemnations and terror deaths.
TO # 29
I would not waste my time answering your acquisition about me not knowing what I am talking about. I am not part of Asra Kadosha, neither am I a sponsor of that organization.
I personally went in there (Schneller) one night and took pictures of the graves to prove that there are Jewish Graves there.
Chesssed: How do your pictures show that their are Jewish graves? You saw a bris mila on the meisem?
#30 Hill of Beans – if bringing FACTS to back up my point and show that others are obfuscating is denigrating others, then so be it. The Eida Ha’ra’a’s supporters regularly engage in violence to further the goals of their organization (I, my wife, and my children have been targets of their riots), and, by failing to speak out, the leadership of this group gives tacit support to such actions.
If by saying the “Eida” has never engaged in violence you mean that R’ Shternbuch has never personally thrown stones or burned a dumpster, I suppose you are correct – but that does not make his organization any less culpable for the actions carried out in its name.
BTW, I will never claim that Zionists have never engaged in violence – there have been instances of unwaranted violence, both in the past and more recently, that I have no issue speaking out against. I endeavour to be truthful in assessing ALL sides – something those supporting the Eda Ha’ra’a seem unable to do.
an Israeli Yid
Burned a dupster, sniff, sniff. You have jackbooted zionist stromtroopers charging into crowds on horseback running over countless victims and falsely arresting pedestrian passerbys who had boting to do with the protest at hand and jailing innocent frum Jews for learning Torah. And you are more worried about burning garbage. Your fate will be the same as the rest of the erev rav. Whereas the Eidah Chareidus, people who have been living in Eretz Yisroel for centuries descending from the Talmidei HaGra and Besht will welcome Moshiach, you will end up in the same fate as the four fifths met during Choshech.
*boting=nothing
Chesssed (really Mushchis)– Again, I feel sorry for you that you are so utterly brainwashed. I know 100’s of people who went and said there are absolutely no graves there. Also, how exactly do you know what are Jewish/goyishe kevarim?