Following the party primaries, Bayit Yehudi is under attack from rabbonim affiliated with Ne’emanei Torah V’Avodah, with the latter accusing party officials of acting like the chareidim, simply appointing its own people whenever possible.
Deputy Minister of Religious Services Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan responded, explaining that concerning the elections of civil service rabbis to head cities he changed the standing regulations, changes that enjoy Supreme Court backing, to avoid that very methodology of the past.
He points out rabbonim who are qualified were nevertheless distanced from the Rabbanut and the current model permits electing rabbonim by their qualifications rather than by political affiliation or what Ben-Dahan calls “chareidi politics”.
Rabbi Ben-Dahan boasted the changes spearheaded by his office, which he insists have improved kashrus and may other aspects of religious life. He told the dati leumi Srugim website “Our understanding of halacha is no less than among chareidim”.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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21 Responses
“Our understanding of halacha is no less than among chareidim”
Sure, they understand it – but then either ignore it or skew it to their needs.
What peerless chutzpah, comparing their “rabbonim” to the real gedolei ha’dor. Eli Ben-Dahan, by making that statement, might as well wear a sandwich board sign reading “Ich bin ein am ho’aretz”.
1 and 2, your comments are hateful, so full of motzi shem ra and sinas chinam, and above all, so ignorant. To 1:do you really pretend to believe that dati leumi yidden “ignore or skew halacha to their needs” (paraphrase) ? Then you obviously are spouting hateful, ignorant stupidity, and want the average shmoe reading comments to believe terrible lies about ehrliche yidden.
2: and who are you to decide who the gedolei hador are? I am not familiar with the rav who said the statement, but i can vouch for its contents. Dati leumi are ehrliche jews, fulfilling the ratzon hashem.
Seriously, if you people want to bash on dati leumi/modern orthodox as this site and others classically have, go right ahead. But I don’t think you’re getting brownie points in shomayim for doing it. In fact, I think hashem is crying.
1 & 2: You are right on target.
Yeah, #1, as if chareidim don’t ignore and/or skew halacha (or even make it up) so they can appear ever frummer than the next person.
Thank you Number 3. It seems all the Ahavas Yisroel shiurim of the summer have gone unheeded.
Some people need to put down other people to feel like they are frum. Other people, like IvduEsHashemBsimcha knows what frumkeit is.
Why is this discussion a constant reminder of the problem facing the Jewish people sinat chinam. The Rabbinate under Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan direction has been working tirelessly to reach out to all Jews both observant, traditional and non. Charedim have every right to want higher standards with all chumras they desire, I would argue that not only is that OK but its commendable. An thats why they have their own specific organizations and rabbis they hold by. Unfortunately, trying to force those chumras on people who are not observant at the moment is not only counter productive but it is a Chilul Hashem. Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan is effectively placing Rabbi’s who can navigate and hopefully inspire of all backrounds to become closer to Judaism. There is not a doubt there must be a place for Torah scholars in Israel but, similarly there is also not a doubt that these scholars are not effective in bringing Jews who probably have the status as a tinok with regards to Halacha closer to observance. Maybe allowing the Dati Leumi to do their job in the Leumi part which they are most effective will give the Rabbinate some significance to average Israelis while respecting the rights of the various individual Hasidic courts and Yeshivas to lead their own flock as they see fit.
Btw #1 and two are right the dati community has unfortunately strayed from the דרך התורה and their main תפקיד has become שלימת הארץ and nothing else matters נבח נבח
so he admits to be במזיד.
#8 – huh, really? seems to me like somebody doesn’t have an ounce of an idea of what they are talking about. At least your tone is better then some others – but still, if you have nothing intelligent to say, don’t say it.
I challenge all those who have such stinging words of nonsense about the dati leumi, to give me specific cases and happenings in which they are at fault, so we can see if you are really right. If not, you are not holding with hamotzi meichaveiro alav harayoh. Then again, you’re also not holding with hilchos lashon hara, motzi shem ra and veahavta l’reacha komocha, so that’s no suprise.
A couple of things that come to mind off the bat is they put yishuv haaretz over pikuach nefesh and will let people die wholesale for yishuv whereas pikuach nefesh is doche. Another is their degradation in the tznius arena.
#11 –
Yishuv Haaretz – They have on whom to stand, they have poskim and history of the Jews behind them (unless you can show me that the Jewish kings in the past just decided that ‘Oh lives will be lost, so we’ll surrender’, pikuach nefesh is doche when we are talking about ‘prat’ but when we are dealing with the klal it can be the other way round).
Tznius – Seriously? You have Dati people who are more tznius and you have who are less just like you have charedi women/girls who walk around dressed ‘betznius’ in tight outfits wearing wigs that look nicer then their real hair and you have charedi women/girls who actually go around betznius.
Oversimplification is a glaring indication of ignorance Doc. Listen to a daati leumi Posek give shiur on land for peace or listen to the Lubavitcher Rebbe (who was right about repercussions of concessions in hindsight) or don’t bother educating yourself but please refrain from inflicting the world with you closed minded absolute statements. If you’re only referring to the Satmar (predominantly) opinion that Israel should not be settled at all because of loss of life (among other reasons) it’s hard to argue that anyone who isn’t Satmar is Krum
well, #11, they hold that as a halachic opinion. you are free to have your own opinion as per your Rav, but don’t bash others and don’t call them “skewering halacha” ch”v as #1 did.
As per tznius, it is a problem, but the vast majority are tznius, and those who aren’t are sadly misguided and in no way represent the mainstream opinions.
Halachic and even hashkafik conversations are welcomed and appreciated; needless unproductive bashing and accusations are not.
#/10 Ivdu…
Yeah, nobody knows what they’re talking about – except you. Do you really want a list of skewed halachos or other practices?
Who joined the self-hating lapid to attempt to destroy Torah?
*Har Habayis! Nebach how many people with karos R”L?
*Who made up the issur d’araissa of not wearing a hat &/or jacket during davening? Ever looked at a picture of the tzadik that they hide behind – Harav Kook?
*Public transport on Shabbos!
*Is it really pikuach nefesh to hear kol isha in the army? How do other armies last without it?
*Tznius!!
*The list is endless…
I know they think they have their own rabbis whom to stand on. Which is an example how they misunderstand halacha. It is so far fetched incorrect and yet they believe it correct. Not only land for peace should be done if it will save lives, something they will refuse on principle even if they would admit it would save lives, but the very establishment of the State was known would cost many lives and yet they supported it. It was the mainstream Orthodox position not to establish it, other than the mizrachi.
#15, i make no claims to know anything better then anyone else. On the contrary, i believe everyone who has thoroughly looked into it knows and agrees with what I’m saying, and those who haven’t shouldn’t talk.
Your issues:
1) No mainstream dati is out to destroy torah R”L! In fact, a recent ad I saw for a religious zionist organization said “Vote Torah: Vote for the Religious Zionist Slate” and showed Rav Lichtenstein on it, as well as funding from the OU, Touro, etc. Stop kidding yourself that these yidden hate torah! on the contrary, it is what they live for!
2) You are portraying it as if the vast majorities of M.O./D.L yidden go on har habayis. It is not so. Nevertheless, what they do is endorsed by appropriate halachic figures. They have whom to rely on. You should not be accusing a movement as bad becasue they have a different halachik opinion that is grounded in torah (specifically, the knowledge that the places they are going do not require tahara…it’s complicated, but not all of “har habayis” is in fact har habayis.
3) You joke, but in serious matters. Anything they do, is grounded irrevocably in halacha, and to say anything less is a misunderstanding of who they are. They hold, l’shitosam, that it is not required. Who are you to denounce them when they have and had gedolei yisrael on their side? And Rav Kook to the best of my knowledge never required anyone to wear a hat and jacket, plus it is despicable to call them “hiding” behind him. Yes, and you are “hiding” behind your gadol or rav who you hold like. What utter nonsense!
4) Who ever asked for chillul shabbos? Are you delusional?
5) Who ever asked for kol b’isha? Are you delusional?
6) Tznius has been addressed in the comments. The unfortunate few who do not adhere to it label themselves modern when they are in fact not orthodox, and the real ones do keep it, again, l’shitosam. If they have a valid halachik shita they hold by that happens to be more lenient, who are you to comment? And who are we kidding, really, the vast vast vast majority are very tznius!
7) I’d like to hear some more of your “endless list”. If gedolei Hador shlita such as Moreinu HaGaon HaRav Schachter, Moreinu HaGaon HaRav Twersky, Moreinu HaGaon HaRav Willig, Moreinu HaGaon HaRav Lichtenstein and of course Moreinu HARAV Soloveitchik zt”l have endorsed this derech, who is a poster on YWN to denounce and spew hate?
#16 – You refuse to recognize that they too are a valid opinion! What makes any specific theology in orthodoxy “mainstream”? Your Rav alone? Oh, how convenient. And my rav? No, he must be a modernishe apikorsus. R”L!!! Never heard of eilu v’eilu divrei elokim chaim? And are you on a level to argue with some of the most learned, revered, ehrliche and incredible gedolei v’tzadikei hador? Because I know I can’t.
Again, halachic debate l’sheim shomayim is what Judaism is all about. Bashing because “only your flavor of yiddishkeit is right” is an abomination before hashem that goes against everything a frumme yid must stand for.
To quote R’ Kook “The division of the nation is the biggest Avoda Zara”, too bad so many people here believe so steadfast in dividing the nation into good and bad, first rate second rate, learns doesn’t learn, sinner not sinner, black white ashkenazi sfardi and most recently (Gafne) works r”l sits and learns…
#15 – You going to tell the Rambam he commited something he got Kores for? Go learn the sugya in depth and only comment on things you understand.
Im sorry this debate has followed the pattern of most of most conversations regarding Hashkafa degrading in to a pattern of simple bashing. This article is about Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan’s performance in placing Rabbis who can relate and maybe more importantly respect the office of the Rabbinate. I believe he has achieved some success with this. Contrasting the past when a good deal of the Rabbis appointed were not successful in connecting with the population they were sent to preside over. Just like Charedim would not want a YU Rabbi to head an exclusive Hasidic or Litvash institution the same applies in the reverse. The Rabbinate which serves the majority of Israeli needs Rabbis who can relate. This would be a bigger problem if Charedim were effected by these choices but atlas they are not. Most Charedim have their own Kashrut Agencies and Rabbinic Courts which they follow irregardless if the appointed local Rabbi is a great talmud hachum or not.
Looking back, I apologize for my sharpness in previous comments. I ask any offended parties to please be mochel; I unfortunately allowed myself to get worked up.