[By Rabbi Yair Hoffman]
Mr. Larry Gordon, owner of the Five Towns Jewish Times, visited Rav Chaim Kanievsky Shlita on Sunday afternoon at a little bit before 4:00 PM and presented him with a number of Halachic shailos from the United States. These shailos were written in Hebrew and Rav Chaim read them himself and then responded. His responses were videotaped.
In a previous article regarding Tropicana orange juice, I had presented 4 factors in which Poskim might either forbid or permit the orange juice, even though scale bugs are being consistently found in each cup of the juice.
The fourth factor dealt with whether there is an obligation to remove an item that cannot be identified as a bug to the naked eye of a trained expert within the mixture—even though he may be able to identify it as a bug were it not in a mixture.
Below, we reproduce the first question that was posed and Rav Chaim’s response. Rav Chaim said that the Tropicana juice would be permitted.
1. יש חוקרים בחו”ל שמצאו במין אחד של מיץ תפוזים תולעים (בשם סקייל באגז). ורק מוציאים את התולעים עם מגדלת לאחר שסיננו את המיץ עם בד דק דק. ואי אפשר לראות את התולעים בתוך ה”בד הסינון” בלא המגדלת. ולוקחים את התולעת על ידי מחט ומניחים אותו על נייר. ועכשיו שאין התולעת בתוך המיץ – אפשר למומחה לראותו בעינים אף בלי מגדלת מה שלא היה אפשר לפני-כן. ובכל כוס וכוס התולעים האלו נמצאים. האם זה נחשב למוחזק בתולעים? האם יש חיוב לסננן את המיץ לפני ששותים אותו?
There are investigators in USA that found scale bugs in orange juice. They only find the bugs with a jeweler’s loupe magnifying glass after they strain it with a very thin cloth. It is not possible to see the bugs in the cloth without the magnifier. They take the bug with a needle and place it on a piece of paper. Now that the bug is no longer in the juice an expert can see it – even with his eyes – something not possible beforehand. In each and every cup these bugs are found. Is this considered muchzak b’tolayim? Is there an obligation to filter the juice before one drinks it?
לא צריך לחשוש.
A Talmid Chochom that was present when the question was posed explained that it was on account of the fourth factor that Rav Chaim ruled in this manner.
The author may be reached at [email protected]
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24 Responses
Interesting, but what are you considering as “the fourth factor”? Not clear…
How does this compare to the bugs in NYC water?
Please be more explicit. Which is the fourth factor?
That settles that.
Before you wonder about the ‘fourth factor’, first read Rabbi Hoffman’s previous article. In it he documents very clearly the various factors that would determine whether it is Assur or Muttar.
At the end he mentioned that the shaila was being presented to Rabbi Chaim and his response will be published here. So this is part 2, read part one first.
And yes, it does seem to settle it, but I am waiting to hear rebuttals from the competition…
@avreimi, see the previous part of the story at http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/278093/tropicana-orange-juice-an-update.html
Hello!! I didn’t think these articles could get any worse!!
This site is creating a great michshol for K’lal Yisroel!! L.G. is presenting our shailos to R’ Chaim shlita?!? Do you know who L.G. is? Have you read his paper?
Only an expert on halacha AND on bugs can properly present the shailah! Someone who is not either, has no right to present a shaila on behalf of everyone else!
Number 4…teens going out for pizza and falafel Mixing!…oy vey. This happens in Flatbush, Brooklyn. Rabbis edict to keep kiddies away from alleged drug sellers.
Larry Gordon did not ASK the shailos. He merely CARRIED the Shailos from Rabbeim in the USA. Who wrote out the shailos. He was merely the hand deliverer of the written shailos.
Why are we more worried about the oj (with reliable hechsherim) and the “chashash” of bugs going INTO our mouths rather than about the hotzaas laaz and shem ra that’s been coming OUT of our mouths – not just the comments, but the original article. If Rabbi H had a chashash, why didn’t he ask the shaila and then publish?
Well well!
So the private “Heimisha” Hechsherim tried to discredit the Modernisha Shgatzim at the OK and failed! What else is new? I’m waiting for the Kashrus rabble rousers who are obviously much smarter than Reb Chaim to spin this one.
Nu, Yudel? Kashrus Magazine?
The fact presented is not correct. The experts were able to clearly see the insects in the juice. Therefore Reb Chaim did not get the question with the correct facts.
Why not leave the Kashrus to the Kashrus professionals? The OK looked into Rabbi Hoffman’s claims and after sending many samples to independent labs, found the claim to be baseless. I don’t know Rabbi Hoffman is, for all I know he may be the next great posek, however he doesn’t work for the OK and isn’t a Kashrus professional either.
Mr.Rov @ 7:30. I know who L.G. is. And I know the author of this article. He is not a Kashrus expert or a bug expert or a Rov.
The end of the article is the most ridiculous part. “A Talmid Chochom that was present when the question was posed explained that it was on account of the fourth factor that Rav Chaim ruled in this manner.” Reb Chaim answered 3 words! And this “Talmid Chochom” added his own two-cents.
Let an expert present the shaila with all the correct facts. This author keeps on changing his mind if there are just scales or bugs or nothing. He has been out to be matir from day one. The readers of his paper also do not filter their water. This author and his paper do not cater the the “YeshivaWorld” crowed.
Hey anoynmus troll. Are u a rav? What gives u the right to judge someone who asks a shayliah?
`If you are worried about these bugs in Tropicana OJ and want to be machmir, than buy one of several heimeshe brands of OJ with top of the line Chassideshe hashgacha, the gold standard of Kashruth. Otherwise, the approval of the OK should be sufficient for those who are not so concerned. The third-hand comments from Rav Kanievsky communicated through a newspaper owner should not be a factor one way or another.
@L.G hater, who the blazes do you think you are?
Just one second folks!!!! Didnt r Chaim pasel for aydus those who use Internet ? Oib azoy—-how can we use any info posted by those who live on the net to pasken???
I find the troll comment amusing since no one here uses their real name. Surely the OU is standing on the shoulders of giants and does not need to outsource the shaalah. Some of the comments here are exceedingly harsh. People say they can’t relate to what destroyed the Beis HaMikdash. Take a look at some of the comments here that are unbelievably harsh in tone — of course they are made with the guts that comes from sitting anonymously behind a computer screen. You know, the one in front of the shrank with the shas.
I don’t know Rabbi Yair Hoffman any more than I know Dustin Hoffman, Larry Gordon any more than I know Jeff Gordon or Yudel any more than Yeedle. I know my Rav. As long as he tells me that the OK is a reliable and reputable hechsher I will eat products with their hecsher, when he tells me otherwise I’ll stop. Articles such as these in a forum such as this are truly pointless.
anonymouschochom says the readers of the 5TJT don’t filter their water. I’m not sure how he knows this, but I believe those readers of the 5TJT who actually live in the Five Towns don’t have to filter their water because it’s not New York City water. Of course, there are readers who do live in New York City. I’ve even seen 5TJT boxes in Brooklyn.
Yudel, quit jumping up and down just to get attention. You couldn’t see an bugs in Tropicana! If you did see a bug, YOU probably put it there yourself.
If you are going to be motzi laaz on T’cana, then the “problem” is with ALL oj! You s should know that EVERYONE makes oj the same way. The only difference is the formula.
!!!הער שוין אןיף, איר זענט ניט שיין
I find “anonymouschochom” to be repulsive, for a number of reasons. Firstly, the author of this article is certainly a Rabbi and was the Rabbi of my shul for several years. He has taught my daughter, and has written several books in Halacha – including one on Kashrus.