[LETTER IN EXTENDED ARTICLE]
HaGaon HaRav Shalom Cohen Shlita, head of the Shas Moetzas Gedolei Yisrael, has released a harshly worded letter voicing his opposition to girls attending chareidi colleges. The letter is the rav’s first on the official stationary as the head of the Torah Council.
The rav points out there is a growing trend of chareidi girls registering for college, which was met with fierce objections by gedolei yisrael, even in the framework of a chareidi college since many of the lecturers are university graduates and do not have a Torah hashkafa. The rav points out that in addition, some of the educational material and methods are contrary to Daas Torah.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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27 Responses
There has to be a middle way!
Otherwise we are raising our children to be “Shnorrers in training” and to have large families who will continue to raise other large families who are “Shnorrers in training”.
The days of our young adults here or in Israel being satisfied working menial/piecework/no chance of advancement jobs, as the post Holocaust generation was, is long over.
By raising “Shnorrers in training” we will have families with parnasa issues leading to Shalom Bayis issues. Thats not good either.
Many Gedolim’s families are employed or supported by their Yeshivos. They dont feel the strain as much.
Aizehu Chacham Haroeh es Hanolad.
Women can even attend university in Iran and Saudi Arabia! This incorrectly aligns Torah Judaism with the Taliban ideology regarding women.
And this is indeed a distortion of Torah: The number of university educated gedolim is now quite large, and hundreds of thousands of observant Orthodox Jews have earned university degrees. Rav Hirsch z’tz’l is turning over in his grave. 🙁
Baruch Hashem Klal Yisroel has Gedolei Yisroel shlit”a such as Maran HaGaon Chacham HaRav Shalom Cohen shlit”a who guide us in our ways and direct us in the ways of the Torah HaKedosha. Whereas what we may think is right is in fact contrary to our Torah values.
Interesting, the daughter of his predecessor founded and runs a college for women (since expanded to also service males) that she started under the haskama of her father Z’l.
If the reason college is verboten is due to the curriculum and faculty, there is a simple fix-change the curriculum and thoroughly vet the faculty before hiring them to ensure they have the proper hashkafos.
Re comment #1, there is also a simple fix-stop having such large families! There is no mitzvah to have 14 kids and then come to Landau’s shul to collect for them…
Doc- using lots of acronyms and titles doesn’t make you more frum, neither does espousing radical ideas. Also, if you’re going to use said titles, get them right. Maran is an acronym for {מרן = ראשי תיבות של ממאתיים רבנים נסמך} Something Rav Cohen hasn’t done.
We get it, you want to be the frummest guy on the internet-(kind of seems like an oxymoron, but hey, I don’t judge) at least check what you’re doing first.
Interesting that Rav Cohen has made a left turn on the hashkafoes of Rav Ovadia Yosef zt”l.
There are many well-run Charedi programs in Israel that a diploma & certification is given upon completion. These certificates aid employees to receive a more lucrative package from their bosses. Women & young ladies will continue to attend these programs so why start another BAN?
DOC: what “Ways of the Torah Hakedosha & values” are you referring to?
There’s a reason Hacham ovadia never went this route. Shas is now run by men who are sepharadi in name only, not in hashkafah.
Sorry charlie but whether or not you agree with Rav Cohen its not a small chutzpa to publicly state his psak is a distortion of Torah. Perhaps our lives have become a distortion of Torah, and perhaps Rav Cohen is here to clarify the matter for us. If we had a Kohen Gadol today and he gave us a psak halacha I doubt you would respond with such harsh words, especially b’rabim. Perhaps you are not aware of the gadlus of Rav Cohen, but its well known that he is someone worthy of respect from all klal yisroel.
I’d be curious as to how the current President of Shas’s leadership council interprets “Eize’hu Chacham? Halomed miKol Adam”. The Mishna does not say only from people who have only learned in Yeshiva or Beis Ya’akov. “Chachma baGoim, Ta’amin” is another saying of Chazal that the current Shas President should give his view on.
Then again, I think a pshat on “Deracheha Darkei Noam, v’chol nesivoseha Shalom” is something else people have been waiting for the President to give. I’m not holding my breath.
an Israeli Yid
Phew! Good thing I’m not in a chareidi college. Only secular for me, cuz I listen to daas Torah.
My previous comment didn’t make it past the censors, so I’ll put this more mildly: I think this is a bad idea. It will result in more poorly educated people who cannot function well in society or support themselves. This will result in more poverty. In my opinion, this is very bad for the Jews.
And it seems contrary to traditional Judaism, which says you should work and teach your children a trade. It’s in Pirkei Avos. But that has already been debated here and elsewhere.
hatzolajew
If you weren’t on the Internet so much you’d know that maran simply means our master. It’s an honorary title. But go ahead knock other people who know more than u.
thank god for great Gedolei Yisroel like HaGaon HaRav Shalom Cohen Shlita!
Such great guidance for Klal Yisroel to run to the ground. not only will there be no money from our frum yungerman learning in kollel but the wives that need to support will have no jobs with no skills. what a great future B”H.
one more question, who’s signing his pay checks?
#8- +1
#11- LOL
#10- yea im sure R’ Cohen who knows all of shas and poskim just simply forgot a few famous statements of chazal. I’m sure he has no way how to explain how those statements don’t fit with his opinion on “charedi” colleges. If we would tell him those statements he would probable be chozer.
#1- yea R’ Cohen is a Rosh Yeshiva employed by his yeshiva and nobody EVER asks him for advice when they have problems. He was born yesterday and has no concept of money and financial burden.
Guys, if you want to go against the Torah, just call a spade a spade. Just say “i cannot stand up to the test of this generation. Hashem please help me.”. Don’t start making flimsy arguments to try to prove that you are right.
How does Rav Cohen have a differnt Daas Torah than Rav Ovadiah Yosef?
“its well known that he is someone worthy of respect from all klal yisroel.”
Not after this psak. It is a chilul HaShem that causes people to think that Torah Judaism is a derech for the middle ages.
Suppose that every Jew became charedi, tomorrow, and followed this psak. Israel would become a desperate fourth world country, dependent on donations from Christians chas v’shalom. Jewish communities in the diaspora would collapse financially because there are few careers that generate enough income to be self-sufficient that don’t require university education.
The only good thing about this psak is that few Jews will follow it.
“it seems contrary to traditional Judaism, which says you should work and teach your children a trade”
And in another CR thread Yeshivat Chovevei Torah is not following the “mesorah”. Jews have been attending university, with rabbinic approval, for centuries. Rambam and Sforno went to university, as did in more recent centuries Rav Hirsch, Rabbi Dr. Nathan Marcus Adler, Rav Hildesheimer, Rov Soloveitchik (as did his wife, son, both daughters and both sons in law), Rav Hutner (as did his daughter), and the Lubavicher Rebbe — the list gets longer as time goes on. You can’t blast YCT but remain silent about this departure from mesorah. This is not a matter of a small liturgical innovation but a question of the survival of the Jewish people in the 21st century.
dpmdave
didnt rav ovadia say about bait yehudi that they are a bayis shel goyim. was he too sephardi by name only.
This is the best news I’ve heard from Shas! Finally the Sepharadim will know that it is not a Sepharadic party, but simply another Ashkenazi Charedi party.
To No. 5: Well said except your comment implies that its OK to schneur for kids you had but cannot afford in shuls other than K’hal Veretzky (aka R’ Landau’s shul)
To No. 9: The degree of respect that a rav or askan deserves is largely a function of his words and achievements, not the string of honorific titles before his name. By his words alone in this letter, it is not all chutzpah for Charlie (a respected epidemiologist and askan) to question whether the Rav may have overstepped his understanding of contemporary higher education available to Jewish women in the U.S. and EY.
# 16 Searchin234 – I’m sure the President of the Shas leadership committee knows the Ma’amarei Chazal in question. I would love to hear how he reconciles them with this policy statement. I’d also love to hear how someone who claims to be following in the Derech of Rav Ovadia, ZT”L, reconciles this position paper with Rav Ovadia’s support for his daughter, Adina Bar-Shalom, founding a Chareidi academic institution.
Then again, I’m also still waiting for his explanation as to how his previous statements about other Shomrei Torah uMitzvos fit with the last Ma’amar Chazal that I brought, but like I said, I’m not holding my breath.
Oh – and Derech Eretz Kadma laTorah is something else I’d like to hear his view on.
an Israeli Yid
Just a reminder for some
Adina Bar Shalom , Rav Ovadiah’s Daughter started a college for charedi women WITH HIS BLESSING . So it clearly is permitted for Sephardi Charedi women to go to college.
Next time I have a halachic shaaleh I’ll make sure to go to a epidemiologist.
WIY- for someone with the title which is roshei teivos for Well Informed Yid, you seem to be lacking.
The Wikipedia page does seem to say that Maran it’s simply for respected Rabbis, it also says it’s Aramaic and used in the Gemara.
Want to know how many times it comes up in Shas. 0 to be exact.
The Chidah used it to refer to the Beit Yosef as roshei tevot for Maatayim Rabbanim Nismach, or מרן
please know what you are talking about before you speak.
Anisraeliyid- you missed my point completely so i guess I’ll be more direct. R’ Cohen knows those statements of chazal, yet he still made this psak. It is foolish to question a psak from someone who knows the whole Torah when we don’t. For example, one can cook milk in a meat pot and the rav will tell you it is mutar. The questioner goes around saying that this Rav ignores the Torah and doesn’t have his head on straight. But the questioner doesn’t know that fact that after 24 hours that taste is pagum and it is mutar. You are playing the role of the questioner… (for the record i don’t know the whole Torah but i wouldn’t be surprised if the reason “derech eretz kadma latorah” isn’t a factor is because it doesn’t override learning apikorsus! But that is just a guess…)
#25- I think this forum is for orthodox Judaism, not conservative….