In the first reference of Daas Torah to the boycott of Angel Bakery, HaGaon HaRav Yitzchak Zilberstein said that whoever buys Angel’s products is showing that kavod haTorah is not important to him.
The issue arose in a letter to HaRav Zilberstein by a Chareidi mother whose 11-year-old son is very particular about food. He is used to eating Angel products and every day he takes bread, rugelach and berokas to school and he says he can’t eat baked goods from other companies. The mother wanted Daas Torah on whether she can allow her son to eat Angel products since he simply won’t eat if he doesn’t have the food he likes.
HaRav Zilberstein’s response was published in a monthly booklet published by the Beis Dovid kollel in Holon.
“As is known, there were no orders from Gedolei Yisrael to boycott the company and the Rosh Yeshivah (HaGaon HaRav Edelstein) even gave instructions [to the Yated Neeman] not to relate to that עוכר ישראל and not to respond,” HaRav Zilberstein wrote. “However, after people felt that it was impossible to remain silent about such a thing, to allow those עוכרי ישראל to open their mouths against the yeshivos hakedoshos and then make money off of them – and a protest by those who were pained by it was launched – now whoever buys these products, he’s considered a bit to be separating himself from the tzibur and is showing that the [affront to] kavod haTorah doesn’t hurt him, that [the affront to] kavod Shamayim doesn’t hurt him.”
“Therefore, it can’t be said that it’s forbidden to purchase these products but it can be said that there’s a reason for the protest and whoever doesn’t participate in the protest needs to introspect about why [the affront] to kavod Shamayim doesn’t pain him and why [the affront] to kavod HaTorah doesn’t pain him.”
HaRav Zilberstein then referred specifically to the son’s issue, that he’ll only eat specific food, writing at length about the terrible issues in recent generations of children being spoiled because parents give them whatever their hearts desire, quoting the Steipler, z’tl, as saying that this is the reason for the many mental crises in recent generations.
Rav Zilberstein concluded: “And therefore, the mother should clearly and unequivocally tell her son that Kavod HaTorah is at stake here and we’re not bringing this product into our home and if you don’t want to eat, you are welcome to fast. And the boy will benefit in multiple ways – he’ll receive a lesson in kavod haTorah and will also be more prepared for life.”
(YWN Israel Desk – Jerusalem)
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39 Responses
I think he should of done what rabbi edelstien did and this is not kovod hatorah for a rabbi to write like this they are not against yeshiva they are saying that our kids are dying for yours and we do not get anything for it and that the money they get comes from democratic places not that of religious shtulz but the bakery had to be kosher and the money made from it should go to shomer shabbat before this thing happened it is better to buy with people that are shomer torah but he is saying something that is not necessarily the truth but possibly it is and if so we should want the end destruction of the state of Israel
Nothing to do with kavod……
Beautiful
As the mother of a child with autism with self-limiting eating restrictions, I wonder if this response was perhaps misinformed by the parents lack of knowledge regarding the cause of their child’s pickiness and failure to communicate same to the Rav. ARFID (Avoidant/Restrictive food intake disorder) is never caused by spoiling a child and to take away “safe foods” from a child can have unfortunate consequences. While the premise of the response is laudable, the implications on a child that likely struggles with food related issues can be devastating.
Wow, it takes a true Gadol to have the shoulders to issue such an unequivocal response!
Bless these words of wisdom…..I will not purchase in support of this group of people whom I believe to be who we need to look up to upon and follow….who knows what we will be with a little twist of Hashem….Shabbat Shalom…..May we rise above the liberals and the insanity of rainbows
After reading what the rabbi wrote in Hebrew I’m agreeing with him as dass Torah but was only saying that since it is always better to buy from people that are shomer shabbat and torah they should of done this before
This protesting is bizarre. The guy didn’t protest as a representative of the company. If we didn’t buy at stores who have at least one executive that was mevazeh Torah and talmudei chachamim, we wouldn’t buy anywhere.
This is sad to see. People should FAST rather than eat Angels?! I really do not understand this. I thought that this was only political acrivists making noise but now it’s becoming Halakhic rulings?! This is a big problem. If Halacha becomes political (meaning, making Halachic rulings based on politics) I cannot imagine a bigger afront to Kaavod HaTorah…
100% to do with Kavod HaTorah. To Jewishmom123 Not every child has the same issues. There is no need to think both the Rav and the child’s mom are misinformed and have no clue what’s going on in the child’s life but we know better.
Some of the commentators here show their ignorance and misconstrued hashkafot. Rav Zilberstein is probably the top Gadol in the inyanim of medical issues. He paskins on life and death issues. To claim that he is ignorant about certain medical issues shows a lack of familiarity of who he is.
Some of the commentators don’t understand what Kavod HaTorah is and I am suspicious that they are American Baal HaBatim that probably don’t learn even half an hour a day, let alone more.
When you are an Am HaAretz it’s best to keep your mouth shut.
The response of . and Barn Owl are nothing short of insult to Kovad Hatorah!
The fact that you characterize this as a “medical issue” is laughable. It’s a petty political matter manufactured from whole cloth! It’s beneath such a gadol to weigh in on such a silly thing.
Also, “when you are an Am HaAretz it’s best to keep your mouth shut.” I think you should stop with the standpoint epistemology. People can understand Kavod HaTorah even if they’re not in kollel.
For example, even if in the US political conservatives like Ron Desantis misconstrued medical data in order to fit his agenda, I would hope that no Gadol would paskan a medical issue such as vaccines in this way.
i agree with softwords. I find it extremely disturbing that there are people who really think their boich svaras carry more weight than a major gadol. there is no excuse for such blatant gaavah and lack of recognition of ones place. I really hope that some of these people manage to find the derech
אם אין שלום אין כלום רש”י בחקותי כו ו. Even if this protest was called for, I hope it ends very soon.
to all of those who think they’re so smart and or they know better cuz they have a kid who has an eating disorder shut your stupid mouth people like you who have no kovod hatorah are exactly who were being moiche against so its hypocritical for you to open your dumb mouths when your exactly the type of people were being moiche against
Children are not supposed to fast even on Yom Kippur. So I think they definitely should not, fast in order to make machlokes. I hate to be the one to say this, but it sounds like someone might be going senile.
“Eat too much refined processed carbs? Why isn’t V’nishmartem important to you?”
This unhealthy eating lifestyle that Angel (and all it’s competitors) promote leads to nothing but sickness including diabetes & heart inflammation. Reserve only the bare minimum of whole grain / Ezekiel breads for seudas shabbos / mitzvah and stick proteins (including meats, fish, dairy & eggs) and veggies for the rest. Avoid the sugar rush pleasure of this temp carb fix and your body will thank you in the long run.
(I speak in general terms and not in special need cases. See Chinuch Mitzvah 117 regarding this and training kids how to eat.)
As I’ve seen in schools, when leadership fails and children are falling short of the mark, always blame the parents
Works every time.
by the way, angel don’t care if you buy their products or not their stock has risen as they were selling at a loss.
Chaim613613
Writhe one more time “ you’re exactly the type of people that we are being moiche” for added emphasis.
I fail to see the justification and logic for this protest .
In view of Rav Edelestein’s psak to totally ignore rav Zilbersteins ruling is causing a chilul Hashem .
Besides this title for tat attitude has never been our way , and its only deepening the hatred and distancing the secular even further.
I would like to see a parallel of the past of reverting to a boycott .
Besides causing major hardship to so many families.
And since when do politicians guide us on how to react .
To me the whole thing is bizarre
I fail to see the justification and logic for this protest .
In view of Rav Edelestein’s psak to totally ignore rav Zilbersteins ruling is causing a chilul Hashem .
Besides this attitude has never been our way , and its only deepening the hatred and distancing the secular even further.
I would like to see a parallel of the past of reverting to a boycott .
Besides causing major hardship to so many families.
And since when do politicians guide us on how to react .
To me the whole thing is bizarre
In view of Rav Edelestein’s psak to totally ignore the whole thing .
rav Zilbersteins ruling is causing a chilul Hashem .
Besides this attitude has never been our way , and its only deepening the hatred and distancing the secular even further.
I would like to see a parallel of the past of reverting to a boycott .
Besides causing major hardship to so many families.
And since when do politicians guide us on how to react .
To me the whole thing is bizarre
Do people not know how to read? R’ Gershon Edelstein Paskened that there shall be no response or macha’a to what happened.
@741 there’s your added emphasis
@jpa You forgot the halachah of pas shacharis. Some Poskim claim that pas is lav davka. But that is a big chiddush. And even those Poskim agree that pas is the example given because it is a fine choice for almost all people.
@K M
I’d have to agree then pas lav davka. There are times when Lechem is davka the 5 grains (ie: hekesh hafrashas chalah to matzah), however many more times it’s figuratively such as what we recently read in Emor Lev.21:8, Gen.31:54 (see Rashi there), etc.
I won’t go into Yechezkel Hanavi’s (4:9) bread recipe and there’s nothing wrong with limited consumption of the 5 WHOLE grains in low moderation. I was referring to our current metzius (perhaps Nishtana HaTeva and bracha from the dough is gone): The constant eating Pas Naki of ultra bleached fine processed & sugary white flour is a direct assault on our health. The human body turns it into sugar glucose and says: pas nisht!
@jpa Let’s say you’re 100% right [which is borderline kfirah]. What about ‘שומר פתאים ה? And what about the Rambam in Deios 4 to not change your habits?
@K M
Not sure what part of “borderline kefira” is trying to help my fellow Jews from hyperglycemia & inflammation complications?
Nishtana Hateva (which I only suggested as “perhaps”) is not my own nor a new concept that is suported by many of this generation’s gedolei poskim regarding things that were once sakana.
Out of all previous poskim, I’m pretty sure the Rambam as a physician would be speaking about this today. Did you even see Sefer Hachinuch 117?
Zei Gezunt & go ahead eat your cake and rely on Shomer Pesaim. (It is a valid shemira when rov am does it, but only when the dangers are unknown to society which I’m not sure that be said anymore.)
Bread is the basic food all over the Torah and the world. Whenever there is a mitzvah to eat, it is usually to eat bread. Nishtaneh hateva has only been said regarding things that were mentioned in passing as not good. And as you mentioned, you need Gedolei haposkim in order to say such a thing. And a possible reason why Hashem changed the teva is because of shomer pesayim. I’m sorry, but to talk against even whole wheat bread is really borderline kfirah.
And thanks for making my question from the Rambam even stronger.
And you need a mekor for what you claimed about shomer pesayim. It is definitely not the mainstream opinion. Either way, it is ridiculous to apply what you said to whole wheat. Zei gezunt.
its cute that km is calling people out for kfirah after just calling a massive goan senile.
of course, i just dont realize that km is the hidden gadol hador. if only i had as much insight as him.
There’s a big difference between senile and might be going senile. And you can be brainwashed if you want, but the fact is that about half the people his age are senile to some extent.
Is it also assur to say that a Gadol died? Or do we have to make believe that Gedolim live forever, like some make believe about the Lubavitcher Rebbe? I think it’s actually a kavod for him, to say that instead of him being obviously plain stupid, he is a Gaon that is just getting old. But as I said, I hate to be the one saying this.
[A Rebbe of mine did say on Purim that I am the most choshuve bochur in Klal Yisroel. Although tbh it’s hard to completely take his word for it, since he doesn’t know every single bochur in Klal Yisroel. Lol]
@K M
You asked for “a mekor for what [I] claimed about shomer pesayim”.
For “rov am”, just open a Gemara (Shabbos 129b, A”Z 29a), the lashon is: Kivan dedashu bei rabim – the mass populace has trampled (a beaten path) upon it – shomer pesaim…etc.
Rav Moshe Zatzal (courtesy of Artscoll notes): We apply this principal only in cases where we see the overwhelming majority of people are in fact not harmed by such behavior. But where we find a significant number of people do suffer harm from it (since it is evident that G-d is not protecting the heedless in this case, it is forbidden [see Igros Moshe, Choshen Mishpat II:76].
An example I can think of are the way cigarettes were advertised in the 40s and 50s recommended by doctors and billboard ads to combat stress, or the C19 jabs recently as all in one solution to covid. The adverse harms for both of these have now been well established and publicized (despite the previous huge financial efforts by Big Tabbaco and current efforts by Big Pharma), so Shomer Peseaim would no longer apply for those who would take these now based on above Rav Moshe’s psak.
As far as pas naki, you’re arguing with the metzius since we now have the tech where anyone can purchase a glycemic meter and see the blood effect results nearly in real time. Your’re akin to a ship captain asking a lighthouse operator to move since you have right of way.
If you fully read my 1st post, you’d know I’m not against whole grain bread in moderation. I myself eat a Kezais Shalem of whole wheat/spelt for each seudas mitzvah (despite knowing it negatively affects me, albeit not nearly as bad as white processed flour) including shalosh seudos.
I’m not relying on Shomer Pesaim since I can no longer be considered a fool – at least for this subject (nor likely anyone since this also heavily supressed info is getting out and current advertised “food pyramid” is unhealthy). I’m more relying on: Shomer mitzva lo yeda davar ra [Koheles 8:5] …and so the inteligent Toradik debate would be how far does this extend including Pas Shachris (if it was likely originally instituted as a health measure). That’s were I merely suggested Nishtana Hateva …and now we’ve come full circle. You may even venture to say that: Bnei Yisrael heim l’maala min hateva.
I’m not really interested in going back and forth and back and forth anymore. No one is paying me. No matter how clear I explain myself, people on this site usually find something to say back. And we have to wait for each post to be approved by some moderator. These conversations can go forever. Also see here https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/2190541/3-6-million-coffees-bmg-ceo-r-yosef-heinemann-describes-the-yeshivas-massive-operation.html#comment-2120655
Zei gezunt.
You did ask for a mekor/source and I replied. If not for you, health letoeles for some one else. That’s all.
“And you need a mekor for what you claimed about shomer pesayim. It is definitely not the mainstream opinion.”
Hope Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT”L is maintream enough for you. Be well.
@K M “[A Rebbe of mine did say on Purim that I am the most choshuve bochur in Klal Yisroel”
It said it on Purim? After how many cups of wine?
Well, he did not seem at all drunk at the time. And he did repeat it after Purim. But tbh Purim was the first time he said those exact words. Lol. But I want to make an obvious point here. If we can’t completely trust what Talmidei Chachamim say on Purim, even though Chazal say nichnas yayin yatza SOD, then how can we completely trust………..?