According to a report released by the dati leumi Srugim agency, Bayit Yehudi is threatening not to vote in favor of the new chareidi draft law as it stands today. This message was reportedly given to coalition chairman MK (Likud) Yariv Levin and to Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, explaining that for as long as Yesh Atid remains adamant on including criminal and financial sanctions, the party will not vote in favor of the law.
Srugim quotes “a source” in Bayit Leumi explaining that for as long as Yesh Atid can remain adamant in its insistence that the law include portions that are not in line with coalition agreements, the party does not feel obligated to those agreements and it will not support the current bill.
The machlokes surrounds the following:
(1) Bayit Yehudi insists the bill contain a statement officially recognizing the importance of limud Torah backed by the encouragement of the government.
(2) Removing the fiscal sanctions against yeshivos if talmidim do not comply, cutting state funding for the yeshiva. Bayit Yehudi wants yeshivos that comply and encourage IDF service to be rewarded instead of punishing those that do not.
(3) Changing the method by which the annual chareidi induction goal is calculated instead of calculating a percentage per yeshiva.
(4) Conducting another vote on the criminal sanctions portion of the bill for Bayit Yehudi is demanding that it is removed from the draft law.
While Bayit Yehudi members will not vote against the bill in its present form, it will absent itself from the vote and this may be sufficient to prevent it from passing for changing a Basic Law requires a majority of the entire Knesset, 61, not just a simple majority of the number of MKs present for the vote.
When asked to comment, Bayit Yehudi officials state “we are reaching an understanding and there is no ultimatum”.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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21 Responses
Rav Shtienman has lead us to an achdus which has not been seen in decades now is the time for some real discussion about what is acceptable.
Bayit Yehudi (and to a lesser extent, Likud), have much to lose by pushing through the law to conscript hareidim. They thought that the law might strengthen the army, and the veterans would be ex-hareidim likely to vote for their party. Instead it appears it will weaken the army, further endanger the Medinah internatinally, and cause most of the hareidi community to look for ways to ally with those whom Bayit Yehudi and Likud oppose politically.
The only way they can get out of the problem is to end conscription and rely on incentives (as well as patriotism), rather than coercion to recruit soldiers.
Hmm, fascinating – a party that is working to find a solution that addresses all concerns, rather than just shouting “no”. Also fascinating is the fact that, even after all the vile language and general nastiness the Chareidi parties expressed toward Bayit Yehudi, BY is still sticking to their principles on the Chashivus of Torah learning and trying to get something that benefits Chareidim.
I’d think that the Chareidi parties can learn something from this – after all, “Eizehu Chacham? Halomed Mikol Adam”.
Just because we Shomrei Torah uMitzvos have Hashkaficly-rooted disagreements on some issues does not mean we should not work together where there is no conflict. I’ve seen a lot more Yashrus on the part of BY than I’ve seen on the part of Gafni, Eichler, Litzman, et al.
an Israeli Yid
Naftali Bennett is going to make a great prime minister one day.
anIsraeliYid : There was no problem until Bayit Yehudi created one. A significant number of hareidim volunteered for the army, often in combat units, or did alternative civilian service. Those who wanted to learn full time were permitted and encouraged to do so (which from an economic perspective, shows tremendous mesiras nefesh – enlisting as a jobnik or civilian volunteer is the “easy way out”). Those whose objections are based on the belief that zionism is contrary to Torah were quitely left alone.
Bennett started the problem. He is not part of the solution – his is the problem.
Bayit Yehudi is going to end up in the same place that Shiuni and its leader ended.
“(1) Bayit Yehudi insists the bill contain a statement officially recognizing the importance of limud Torah backed by the encouragement of the government”
Again trying to stick a “chazer fisel” on the treifa medina to make it appear kosher.
Afra le’pumay on whatever the tziyonim say.
I think what really needs to be addressed more than quotas (which are arbitrary) and Criminal Charges(which are seriously misplaced) is where do they want inductees to go. There was talk of considering counting Chabad Shluchim as National Service probably a great idea. We need more thought leveled at the problem which is more about finding a place for Non full time learners than “sharing the burden” (which sounds like a punishment). Soldiers like full time learners in a sense are born not made. Those Haredim who join the Nachal units are there because that is their calling you can’t force others to follow suit its counterproductive and doomed to fail.
Both National Service and the IDF will have to change if wants to incorporate Haredim not the other way around. Its time to change the debate to include Kosher Supervisors, Various Jobs at Hatzolah and Shomrim, and most importantly shomer mitzvos non mixed (women, secular,other) enviorment.
Its time to say we can tell you how many when you tell me where.
#5 – No, the Chareidi world ignored the problem until it grew to a point where it could no longer be ignored. Bayit Yehudi then began making a good-faith effort to resolve the issue (while taking Chareidi concerns into consideration), rather than follow the way of the Chareidi parties of pointing fingers at everyone but themselves.
The Chareidi parties have an unfortunate tendency to self-righteously promote their own agenda, with absolutely no concern as to how this looks to anyone else. This is contrary to the Derech HaTorah – there are numerous examples (Moshe giving an exact accounting of the use of the donations for the Mishkan, the Pasuk “v’hyisem neki’im meHashem U”MIYISRAEL)” that show that not only must a Torah-observant Jew DO what’s right, he must do so in a way that it is clear to all that what he’s doing is right.
You may or may not agree with Bayit Yehudi and Naftali Bennett, but he’s been consistent in acting in good faith to resolve this issue. He’s definitely played the grown-up much more than the histrionic Chareidi MKs, crying that “someone moved their cheese”.
an Israeli Yid
“The Chareidi parties have an unfortunate tendency to self-righteously promote their own agenda, with absolutely no concern as to how this looks to anyone else”
By definition, a hareidi is someone who follows a mitsva of Torah and Mitsvos even though the rest of the world things such an agenda is ridiculous. It doesn’t matter whether we are talking about zionists, or communists, or Americans or Muslims. Often the rest of the world finds us annoying and make outrageous charges against us (we’re lazy parasites, we’re cowards, we drink blood, we’re perverts, etc., etc. – this is old news). The Israeli hareidim are making it clear to the world that they are doing the right thing, no matter what coercion or bribes are being used to convince to go off the derekh of Torah and Mitsvos.
The hareidi politicians thought they had a deal: we let them be zionists, they let us be hareidi. Bennett led the movement to toss that deal away.
An Israeli Yiddish
The gedolim don’t hold like u, need I say more?
Stop the gat Ge already, bayit hayehudi is working with reshoyim, look what happened to Korach and his people, they also gave d’var torahs and nice speeches ans screened l’shaim Shomayim but they were going against the Godol,
before this started, more and more chareidim were entering the army and then going to work. the whole system of the draft stinks. do you know the real reason why women are in the army? so the men will be happy. that’s the true and only reason. do you know why they want to draft bnei torah? To stop the learning. and stopping the learning will kill yiddishkeit. that’s their goal!
bennett consistant, which parralel universe are you from?
flip flopping between criminal sanctions, saying lomdei torah wont be harmed (yet theyre imprisoned anyway),
#10- I will once again point out that you are NOT chareidi, though you claim to be. A true chareidi does not sit by a computer all day and comment on what takes place in Israel.
#9- Don’t waste your time by trying to argue logically with that guy.
#14 – So as the future of Klal Yisrael hangs in the balance, will be a nation of Torah, or a nation as great glorious as the nations of the world — Do you have any thoughts on the matter?
#14: And you are not Orthodox.
akuperma: Disregard this frei anti-Orthodox dunce.
I know that others have brought this point out, but no one has actually answered the question.
Someone please answer the following question:
Israel is now a nation of almost 8 million citizens. Its total military size is 629,150 personnel. It’s Total per Capita is 79.2 per 1000, which makes it rank 8th highest world wide.
Our Enemies sizes are as follows:
Jordan – 175,500
Syria – 747,000
Lebanon- 311,735
Egypt- 1,344,500
Total Enemy = 2,578,735
That means they all together are only 4x larger than us.
Israel is ranked as the highest GFP (Global Fire Power) in the middle east and 11th worldwide. Syria, on the other hand is marked as 26th even though its army is larger than ours.
Israel’s military spending in 2012 was $14,638,000,000.
Egypt’s, who’s army is 2x our size, military budget was only $4,420,000,000. Less than a 3rd our expenditure.
Syria’s, a mere $1,871,000,000.
Total Military expenses (all 4 neighbors) – $9,473,000,000
Now I ask you, do we really need to make our army mandatory and spend so much on it? For years I have heard Military Commanders complain that the military as of now is too costly and they can’t afford to expand.
We are paying more per soldier than all four of our neighbors combined!
They pay $3,673/soldier.
We pay $23,266/soldier.
That means that each and every one of you is paying nearly 6.5x as much on the military than any of our neighbors do. The GDP on that is 6.2% making it the 5th highest in the world (USA ranks 10th).
Are we nuts!!! Do we really need to be forcing such a high financial burden? We are already way ahead of our neighbors in all military technology.
Why are we still demanding mandatory enlistment when making the army voluntary with incentives will solve so many issues?
1) People that avoid the work force due to the draft can then freely contribute?
2) The military will have higher morale being that everybody enlisted will be doing so willingly.
3) The military can take more control over its budget.
4) No-one will feel animosity towards other citizens, so peace will have more of a chance to rein.
5) Less people will need to rely on government funding.
6) The country will be less divided.
CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHY SHOULDN’T WE JUST MAKE THE MILITARY VOLUNTARY?
If you state because people won’t enlist, then you are admitting that no-one today feels an innate national pride! No-one today feels it’s a mitzva to serve!
#15- I have presented my thoughts on the matter numerous times. No use repeating them knowing that you and (most) others will not be persuaded that your arguments are nonsensical (i.e. your constant refrain that the world would give a darn about “Human rights violations” due to requiring chareidim to serve).
I write what I do about your comments, because it is galling to criticize others so vehemently about attempts to prevent Torah learning when you yourself cannot possibly learn very much (if at all). I HATE hypocrisy!
#16- Of course I am not Orthodox! How could I possibly be, when my rebbe was R’ Yoshe Ber Soloveitchik for many years? (And I wear a kippah sruga!).
With that in mind, perhaps you can explain to me the machlokes Abaye and Rava regarding yi’ush shelo meda’as? I would love to understand it from a really Orthodox perspective!
Yanky55 – do you know what the Rav’s opinion (psak) was about military exemptions? The only thing I could find on line was his opinion about voluntary service for the US army Chaplaincy (which was based on other reasons than would be for Israeli service).
I don’t recall ever hearing the Rav discuss it, but I will ask my brothers who each served as his personal shamas for a number of years.