Torah U’Mesorah has released a letter outlining a plan to have yeshivos end their zmanim earlier in the summer and begin their new zman earlier in the fall.
The letter states that the proposal, originally presented at a recent meeting of the Vaad Roshei Yeshiva of Torah U’Mesorah, would resolve the issue of there being a very limited Elul zman in years such as the upcoming one, in which Rosh Chodesh falls out early.
The letter notes that such a schedule makes it difficult for boys to properly learn about the Yomim Tovim; children and parents are on “vacation mode” until selichos; and there is too much unstructured time for bochurim after camps end.
To resolve this, Torah U’Mesorah is proposing major scheduling changes to yeshiva schedules, as can be seen in the letter and proposal outlined below.
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25 Responses
Not everyone has to be like Lakewood. Some kids need 2 months and breaks.
Labor Day always was 1 mad fad.
Most schools (including the one where I work) are unable to provide transportation for students before Labor day.
Having school with no transportation would be a real hardship for some families, especially those who live far from school.
I don’t understand why the only solution that they can come up with involves changing the structure for all bucharim and forcibly keeping them in yeshiva for longer periods instead of creating bein hazmanim programs to give bucherim the opportunity to choose learning about Yom tov, yeshivas are already dealing with burnout the way it is, this would only exacerbate it.
One little problem:
High schools have regents. Will they study for/ take them in between 1st and second activity???
I apologize but I do not understand how starting Elul zman late Can possibly help children learn more if they are going to be missing one and a 1/2 to 2 weeks of school
I disagree on one point. The second day of Rosh Chodesh Elul or perhaps the next day should be the default starting day every year. Just like it is for mesivta and bais midrish.
It seems like they made this schedule without thinking of NY High Schools that give Regents.
Regents usually happen sometime between the 15th and the 22nd. I know it’s a few years away but in 2026 by the date TU says camps should start (the 18th), Regents will have probably just started.
Also, why is downtime necessarily a bad thing? Everyone needs downtime, including our high school students.
I think the Jewish investment in the Catskill mountains has so skyrocketed in recent years that scaling back simply will not work. There’s far too much money involved. I think tyere will be stiff resistance.
@goldilocks- “Having school with no transportation would be a real hardship for some families, . . . ”
And going into the Yomim Nora’im without an Elul to prepare, would be real hardship as well.
@ y flohr- they are not extending they are modifying / they are swapping days.
@ al daas haMakom- Only New York State schools have regents exams.
To lakewhut
Its ridiculous that in New York city some schools have up to 11 weeks of vacation (depending when Labor Day comes out). Yes most children go to day camp but even in the best daycamps its at best a weak substitute. There is way too much invested in the eight week programs of summer camps so I don’t hold any hope for changing that system, but as I wrote Rosh Chodesh Elul should be the default start day and work the summer schedule around that.
To Goldilocks
There are times during the year when there is no bussing like during the non jewish holidays and Sundays. It may be hard but its doable
When did things change so much? When I was a kid in the ‘70s, the last day of Yeshiva was always around June 27. When I graduated from the 8th grade, my graduation was on July 1st. And Yeshiva always began the day after Labor Day. June was a month of regular school and finals.
Labor Day 2032 is 1st day of ראש-השנה but Heaven Forbid to profane the sanctity of Labor day, so simply skip all הכנות לימים נוראים in 2032 in deference to the Hallowed American Summer schedule.
There is nothing unprecedented about this:
1) Many Jewish camps consisted of one four-week trip, and one five-week trip; Since The Nine Days took one week pool access away from campers, the trip in which the nine days fell, was lengthened by a week. That ended in the late 80s or early 90s when our leaders decided the effect on out childrens’ chinuch ws too great. From then on, there were two four-week trips.
2) When Agudah Mid-West opened, and one four-week session was for girls and th other for boys, the boys trip was always scheduled around the Telz zeman in order to ssure the camp would have quality staff and si the staff would and campers would not miss Yeshivah. This platform was designed upon the advice and guidance, once again, of our torah leaders.
3) Again, it was in the 90’s, I believe, when R”H was going to be very early, Yeshivos ended a little early and/or perhaps began a bit ear;ier, in order to not moss out on the very important Elul. This was, once again, done on the daas of our Einei HaEidah.
a few points
you leave 2 full weeks with nothing between camp and yeshiva – all bp mosdos have less than a week , more time before elul just start school
shortage of counselors ” bnei torah ” most litvish bochurim yeshivos dont allow their talmidim to be counselors
bochurim that are in learning camps like ohr shraga..are basicly in yeshiva all summer and for many learning even better
the bigger hot question is 2 months verse 1 month off as lakewood , parts of monsey…
as far as bussing goes, the nyc gov pays 2000 per kid depending on age and distance , its easy and profitable for mosdos to get new buses of their own like ytv , veretsky…and all the chassidish mosdos
147: Some states had laws prohibiting schools opening before labor day so that their tourist areas would have a ready supply of low cost high school kids available to work. Virginia was one of the last states to eliminate that requirement although most schools still schedule post-labor day starts. There is also some debate about “year-round” schooling with two 3-4 week “break periods” around Jan/Feb and July/Aug. The argument is that an 8-10 week summer vacation means the kids are tuned out by the beginning of June and are out of control and have lost much of their learning focus for the first several weeks after returning in September.
Isn’t it a little late for this year to make this change?
re: Point number 3. Why do those bnei torah have to be in yeshiva, let them stay in camp while it is in session. all agree their hashpaa on the younger boys in camp is important.
So, they will learn a few less reb chaims for 10 days, so they will learn less hours for those ten days, but, there is lilmod and lilamed, they will be fine role models for the younger kids in camp.
@EmEmC – Is this your opinion, or that pf your Rav/Posek? With ALL due respect, and I mean that in all seriousness, when we close our own Gemoros and go out to and do a mitzvah, is a matter of halachah. For very specific mitzvos and under very specific circumstances is Talmud Torah suspended; Talmud Torah of a Yochid and of a Rabim, Efshar al yidei acheirim or Ee Efshar, Efshar li’kayim shneihem or Ee efshar li’kayeim. All these need to be taken into consideration and then a competent authority makes the decision.
On the surface, at least, it would seem that the Rabbonim of Torah U’Mesorah have made their decision.
Can you bring proofs to the contradict their ruling? if so, by all means. But to devalue one extra Rav Chaim or to decide when lilmod is less important than lilamed, does not a proof create. Again, in my humble opinion.
I respect you and your opinion, just asking for a proof or a source for it.
This is great! The Lubavitcher Rebbe pushed strongly for starting schools earlier in Elul to help the children prepare for yomim noroim.
Y’all gotta chill out