9 Responses

1. It will be a problem to keep this non-violent and civil. The stakes are very high since once the hareidim start resisting the state openly, and the state replies with mass arrests, it is in effect a “double or nothing” situation with the continued existence of the Medinah, and the hareidi community on the line. The end result could involve hareidim being forced from Eretz Yisrael (or at least the parts held by the zionists), or the zionist state thoroughly undermined to such an extent its continued existence would be in doubt.

2. Akuperma you always seem to have extremist views. The Gagol Hador is suggesting prayer and effective lobbying which will have the most chance of success. You are correct in that in the end there will have to be some sort of compromise requiring some sort of National Service albeit different from whats being proposed right now and those who will not be a part of that compromise will most likely have to find another place to live. This is a complex economical problem which will require complex answers. The status quo cannot hold ironically due to the success of the religious community.

3. the only way to stop the State of Israel from drafting Bnei Torah and Frum Bochorim & Yungleit into the IDF is by Mass Protest in Yerushalayim, Bnai Brak, Beth Shemesh, Ashdod and any other City with large frum population every frum person no matter if you are satmar, belz or litvish or sfardi should attend and bring the State of Israel to it’s knees, the Only reason for this Gezira is that the State of Israel wishes to Shmad the frum population, there is No Need for frum bochorim or yungleit in the IDF, they already have more than what they need, must countries today no longer have a mandatory draft since they have enough volonteers as the United States

4. Certain neighbors want Reuven to partake in the snow shoveling of their block.
   They said that he should share the burden.

   He told them that he learns Torah and that’s enough for sharing. They don’t want to listen, maybe they’re against learning, I don’t know.

5. #2- The only compromise that will be acceptable to Hareidi Bnei Torah is that learning in yeshiva be accepted in lieu of military or civilian service – and this is not acceptable to the bulk of hilonim since they regard learning Torah as a waste of time with no value to society or the Jewish people. And even that leaves open the issue of those who oppose the state on religious grounds (a minority of hareidim, but probably about half of the Arabs). The only possible compromise would be to end conscription, which would be a radical change in Israeli society.

6. simon01 and akuperma: Well stated. +1

7. #4 Yira – If I remember correctly, your statements are so often so weird and confusing. I’m never quiet sure what your trying to say. Maybe you should try a more direct approach.

8. I read an interview with a big Sefardi askan, one of the people who founded Shas and now the Rav of some city, who was very close to Rav Shach, zatzal. He said Rav Shach once told him that there would come a time when the government would try to draft all the bochurim into the army, and then there would be no way to avoid it except to send all the bochurim out of the country (presumably before they reach military age). One friend of mine remembers Rav Shach asking in this context, “Will they make room in the prisons for 5,000 bochurim.”

9. I’m obviously in the minority opinion that a compromise can be reached with the majority of the Haredi Public. I firmly believe there is room for a significant amount of people who can have a permanent deferment due to true full time learning. Separating those who are simply shlepers wasting their and others around them’s time. Many who claim to learn are are not fit for that level of study and it does no good from them to be stuck in a cycle of constant failure. On the other hand there is no place for them within the current IDF structure either. Hence the hope for compromise. Maybe new frum divisions need to be created… maybe a hybrid of the Dati Heseder progams and the current Shomerim/ Hatzolah progams combined to create an environment which will lead to greater Independence from Hiloni control. There needs to be new ideas forwarded because current situation cant hold as the religious community grows it will have to shoulder of a larger piece of the logistics of the country. In the end and in a strange way (not intended by the Hilonim) this is all good and has the potential to lead to greater frumkite throughout all of Israel.