9 Responses

1. I have another explanation of the motive of Germany (and several other countries) to discuss politics with all sorts of hareidim. By abolishing exemption for yeshiva students, considering a policy to start mass conscription of hareidim, and engaging in a systematic policy to undermine the hareidi community in Eretz Yisrael, the zionists have given a new “lease on life” to Neturei Karta, and serious undermined the pro-zionist hareidim of Agudah, Degel ha-Torah and Shas. The prospect of a tenth of Israel’s Jewish population (higher in Jerusalem, and growing faster than the rest of the country due to the zionist’s low birthrate) is a “game changer.”

   If the western powers propose a peace agreement that while being acceptable to the Arabs, and also acceptable to hareidim (emphasizing communal autonomy including exemption from military service), the support of a hareidi community will undermine the zionist argument that there is something “un-Jewish” about the agreement. At present the minimum demands of the zionists and Palestinians leave no room for compromise, but the hareidim can bridge the gap at least to the extent of allowing for a proposal that is acceptable to the Arabs also being acceptable to at least some Jews (even if unacceptable to most zionists).

2. akuperma: Eloquently stated. Thank you.

3. The past 60 years show that God wants Israel to exist, not a single war Israel fought was supposed to be won by Israel, the land started to give fruit again and we can continue with more and more.

   Jews are commanded to (when possible) live in Israel, these sadly misguided people should soon be zocheh to doing tshuva.

4. #3 Keeper: Taking your point further you do realize that God wanted the holocaust to happen.

   In any event, during its 60 year history continuing till this very day, Israel is constantly losing lives to war and terrorism.

5. #3- The Israelis might have been nervous, but the wars they fought were hardly miraculous. As the Satmar Rebbe wrote, the reason the Israelis won was that the Arabs weren’t very good soldiers. When attacking Israel, they often took off to fight each other (had the kings of Transjordan and Iraq, BTW cousins) worked together, they could have reached the coast and possibly taken Tel Aviv. In 1948, the stopped attacks in order to loot. In 1973, they didn’t even have plans to follow through, since they knew the Russians and Americans wouldn’t allow either side to win more than a marginal victory (they were banned from the Galilil, Israel was banned from Egypt and Damascus). The Arab armies have always been seriously class ridden (officers not liking to get their hand dirty, taking off for tea during battles, etc.). The only real threat Israel ever faced was from the Soviet Union, and it wasn’t Israeli arms that prevented that.

   The principle fruit of the period is the tremendous growth of Torah and Torah publishing, which the zionists are trying to uproot. Economically, Israel is a mess as they are so dependent on foreign aid and on goyim in general that the mere threat of a boycott is enough to make have right-wingers willing to consider making dubious territorial concessions. Israeli companies routinely reincorporate abroad or end up selling their assets to foreigners. Their prosperity is limited to a small ruling elite. The high rates of abortion, school violence, sexual perversions, etc., among the hilonim suggest that zionist society if breaking down. Their survival is perhaps in the zechus of the soon to be destroyed (if the zionists have their way) yeshivos.

6. So according to akipea Israel exists only because of Arab incompitance – no yad Hashem involved. Silly me I thought that Yad Hashem is everywhere from 1948 till the present day. And btw Israel is considered to have one of the strongest economies around

7. Yad Hashem includes having the holocaust.

8. I never said that the Holocaust was not Yad Hashem please don’t put X-tian apikorsus in my words….

   Almost every king in the days of tanach was also losing people every year in wars with neighbors, internal stife crimes, that doesn’t change the fact that Hashem wanted their kingdoms to exist in those days and that Hashem is helping the state of Israel to exist and flourish against all odds in our days.

9. It’s so interesting how people have facts handed to them yet continue to believe in their Zionist idol, and even try to bring “proof” from the Torah, CH”V.

   The “yad Hashem” “argument” and “miracles” “argument”, along with all the other non-arguments, for Zionism, are instant losers, as posters above have pointed out.

   Eliyahu HaNavi staged his “showdown” on Har HaCarmel,as opposed to simply walking in and announcing the self-evident truth that “if you worship the baal then you’re an idol worshipper, an extremely severe sin”.

   If one seeks to understand why this whole song-and-dance was necessary rather than a simple announcement, one need only look at idolatrous belief in Zionism today, complete with human sacrifice that is, according to MO/”religious Zionism”, justified by the Torah, CH”V.

   The greatest Torah giants of the past century and more have decried Zionism in the harshest terms. History continues to prove these Torah sages were and/or are correct.

   Zionists actions and lack thereof during the Holocaust was not enough for you? What about Yaldei Tehran? And 24/7/365 shmad is also not enough?

   Ad masai atem pochasim al shtei haSiifim?