12 Responses

1. There are many officers in the IDF who are yeshiva grads and could serve as the core group for administering a testing program to identify which kollel yungerleit are the real ilui’im and which ones are simply hockers who may sit behind a shtender for years but will clearly not evolve into talmedei chachamim. Roshei yeshiva should also be allowed to nominate their top talmidim as potential ilui’im.

2. all this while the higher ups in the army have been expressing any way that they can, that they don’t want force conscription of hareidis.

3. #1-

   Anyone who learned in a yeshiva knows that it is impossible! Who should be chosen – the masmid? – the boki? – the chorif? – the yorei shomayim? – the ba’al halach? – maybe the meyuchas (who will probably get a job teaching or as a rov/rebbe)?

   Each one has his ma’aleh and who is to decide which one or combination of these qualities is most important. Besides, there are probably many more than 1800 who excel in most of these categories.

4. Maybe this should be done as a fractional calculation. Let’s say that there are 18,000 talmidim currently in these yeshivose. Maybe then for each 10 students in a yeshiva, the yeshiva can assign 1 deferment. Each yeshiva can use its own discretion in choosing who are its best talmidim.

   We should remember that those not chosen as illuyim are not bad people or even bad talmidim. Not everyone is an illuy, and everyone that has spent any time in yeshiva knows that. But also know that plenty of talmidim that were not born illuyim because groyse talmidei chachamim after many years of dedicated work.

   Many excellent talmidim will serve in the army and then return to the yeshivas afterwards to learn for many more years. As others have pointed out before, during WWII many budding talmidei chachamim were unable to learn for significant amounts of time, though after the war resumed their studies and became true gedolei Torah. Are we to say that because they lost a few years of serious learning during the war that they were not so great gedolim and talmidei chachamim?

5. So a masmid who learns 18 hours with a medium head,would have to go to the army rather than a non-serious brilliant guy who learns 8 hours a day?
   Who can evaluate someone’s learning?Ministers dedicated to eradicated jewish values?!
   The whole idea is a joke-what criteria were used to decide 1800?

6. Not only will these 1800 receive a draft deferment, but they will merit to do the gevaldige mitzva of Pidyon Shevuyim to redeem the thousands and thousands of imprisoned Torah scholars. Will they have to learn?

7. When the Russians tried the same thing, they set it based on how much many they paid. How do you value an anti-zionist student versus a patriotic one – of course the anti-zionist if conscripted will be a security risk and may file charges with international human rights group, whereas the loyal one might be unhappy in the army but won’t help the Arabs. What’s the “right” answer to a test question of “is it mutar to kill an Arab who wants to seize back property his family lived in 100 years ago”? A “test” reflects, always, the values of the writer of the test.

   The important thing is how rabbanim react. During the similar situation in the 19th century, the rabbanim tolerated a system in which those with “protectksia” (as we call it now) were exempted – with the result that the rest of the community became disillusioned with the rabbanim and ended up non-frum. Of course those Jews who were forced off the derekh played a prominent role in executing the czar (several generations down the road), though that wasn’t anyones intentions (at least anyone person’s intention – HaShem has ways of dealing with matters we don’t control).

   Ones who are now pro-zionist and learning in yeshivos that accepted government funding, but are turned over to the army (probably a function of yichus and family wealth) will probably either acclimate and become modern orthodox (what the zionist hope) or become bitter anti-zionists. Either way, the yeshiva world will be disrupted, just as it was when the Russians pioneered in using conscription to “break” frum communities 200 years ago.

8. #2 Wanted to write “Will they have time to learn?”

   #1 The Roshei Ysehiva will continue learning with them in their new dormitory in jail where they’ll have room and board and at the same time chap arein hundreds of non religious boarders and bring to them back to Torah and yiddishkeit.

9. Why should “iluyim” have more rights to learn than the rest of כלל ישראל? What in the fact that they are cleverer than other people gives them more of a zechus?
   If 1,800 בחורים are allowed to sit and learn, surely somebody who is a bigger מתמיד but maybe not as clever should have priority over a genius who is not as much a מתמיד?

10. What if that non-“ilui” would have worked hard and become a famous R”Y had the Zionists let him sit and learn?

    The whole concept is extremely foolish, anyways shmad due to the IDF/Israel situation and (therefore) nauseating.
    Al tigu biMishichai uViNiviai al tareiu.

    How can any thinking Jew condone any of this? Even without the myriad Zionism issues, how can any Jew allow anyone, “even” a bureaucrat, to compel a R”Y to force talmidim out of the Bais Midrash?

    Uru yishainim miShinaschem!

11. Governments including Belgium and United States are looking to cut food stamps and subsidies to those who “don’t support their own government. Are they also “zionists”?? All of your yiddush termonology wont stop governments from cutting aid to those who don’t participate. Oh yeah, tell a US Marine that Torah Learning supports the United States. it wont go to far.

12. A deferment will look great on the shiduch resume