On Thursday, 400 “chareidim” reported to the Bakum induction center for active duty. For the coalition it represented a new reality, one that is closing in on its goal of ‘sharing the burden’.
All was well until the media arrived at Bakum, wishing to photograph the historic unprecedented induction of 400 chareidim into Nachal Chareidi in one day. One needn’t be a resident of Meah Shearim or Bnei Brak to understand the puzzled faces of the news photographers, whose reaction was “wait a minute – these guys aren’t chareidim”.
Yes, the inductees are Orthodox but they were a far cry from the bnei torah that Yair Lapid and his cohorts insists they will be pulling away from their shtenders. Rightfully so, the reporters were annoyed, realizing they had been duped as the IDF and government tried to use them to portray the success of the share the burden camp.
In reality, as most acknowledge that while there are more shomer Shabbos Yidden entering the IDF, by and large, those seriously learning are continuing to do so and most say if compelled, they will opt for prison before disobeying their roshei yeshiva and Gedolei Yisrael Shlita.
Kol Chai Radio reported on Thursday evening that most bnei yeshivos seem to feel the government is under pressure and trying to show that they have compelled the chareidim to enlist, trying to break their spirit, adding for most of those seriously involved in limud torah, it won’t happen, not today or ever.
In reality, while they are fine people in their own right, most inductees into the Nachal Chareidi today are not classic Eretz Yisrael bnei torah by a long shot and not chareidim, at least not in the eye of the chareidi tzibur.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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26 Responses
They are American bochrim who feel a closer relationship to the state then their ungrateful “brothers” in Israel.
there chareidi as much as the guys swimming in the pool!
But they are at least frum baal ha-battim, and are “too frum” to be in a regular unit, which is both a problem and a solution. Remember that the liklihood of becoming an officer is probably reduced by being in a hareidi unit (or for that many, any but the elite units since the elite units such as the “paratroopers” are the traditional source of officer candidates) – so these people are giving up much to be in the “Nachal Chareidi.” Eventually those Chareidim serving in the IDF will expect equal promotion opportunities, but as long as such service is voluntary that won’t become a crisis.
The hilonim thought that once they got bnei yeshiva into the army, they would act like the volunteers in the “Nachal Chareidi” – and they’ve probably been discovering that isn’t likely — unless they stick to volunteers. A non-zionist conscript will be at best a mediocre soldier, and at worst a mutinous or disloyal one.
However because secular Israelis thought most hareidim were right wing fanatics (they confused “hardal” with mainstream hareidim, since to them, all frummies look alike), they didn’t realize that a big chunk of the hareidim are still anti-zionist.
The “crisis” only comes to a head if, and only if, they try to conscript anti-zionists. If they decide that they are conscientious objectors, the problem goes away. Even the most rabidly secular zionists really don’t want to give automatic weapons to Neturei karta fellow travellers. Options for pro-zionist hareidi bnei Torah to serve can easily be built on the exist Nachal hareidim which probably is okay in terms of halacha, so rework the schedules to allow time for learning, and include incentives such as support for veterans learning in kollel – and the problem is solved as long as no attempt is made to conscript those who have halachic objections to zionism (rather than merely to conditions of service).
I am puzzled how the media can determine that this group is not chareidi.
Is chareidi defned by how one dresses.
We all know this is shallow and not the torah way.
We should not define a jew by their choice of clothes.
But we all do and that is a mistake.
a few error they are classic bnei torah this learning in kollel, not working, no participating in greater society in a new thing.
and you are basic your assumption on dress. like all black hats a learning a false assumption and no non black hat are learning
I notice none of these pictures are posted above. I’m curious why that is. If you could post or link to where these media pictures can be found, it would be very much appreciated.
The Charedim that have/are enlisting are those over 22yrs old and married BH. They are joining technology brigades, Shachar, Shalev B, national service and other groups.
The Charedim joining Nachal Charedi are increasing, yet they are those that have not been in full time learning and were WAITING for some type of structured system and green light.
Okay, Akuperma, you are not learning any Torah, so here is your chance to comment. Go…
“are not classic Eretz Yisrael bnei torah by a long shot and not chareidim, at least not in the eye of the chareidi tzibur”
The above sentence (from the article) smacks of such pompous arrogance and sinas chinum that I am literally nauseous.
Who writes these articles ?!?! So biased and incredibly offensive !!
Looks like more clarification on the fact that this is a mixed group of currently chareidi, raised chareidi, and chardal and a picture here: http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Four-hundred-recruits-join-haredi-IDF-programs-321805
Most of the secular media reached the same conclusion. They were expecting yeshiva kids with long jackets, long pe’os, etc. – and what they got were kids who looked like they came out of a hesder yeshiva. In all fairness, the hilonim can’t tell one type of frummie from another (from their perspective: Does he have a kippah or is he normal looking?).
HA! HA! HA! Lapid, Piron, Lipman, Bennett WERE FOOLED BIG TIME! YWN thank you for this news.
Did you hear this Bklynmom, LazerC, Peakman, Yanky and others? We, charedim Akuperma, About Time, ujm and others were right all along. Most Nachal Charedi students are Daati Leumi and only about a handful are charedim. The Hamans in the government will never be able to force them into their corrupt army.
Chacham, you are right.
Mikey, the truth hurts.
It’s only offensive to Lapid, Piron and their supporters. About time YWN writes as proud charedim.
100% RIGHT
To all of you not having what to do and certainly not sitting behind your sefarim right now. YES, chareidim are judged by lefnim meshuras hadin. In chareidi language YES that means black hat and ultra orthodox dress code. I just came back from NY and I’m amazed how so many of you have just missed the point. Women and men with their chassidish accents or even those without walking around looking like modern orthodox couples no less. Men let alone not davening with minyanim but not davening at all and their wives not covering their knees properly. This doesn’t describe everyone but probably does describe most of the people who have commented here thus far. As soon as you’ve given up the chore prinicples of what it means to be chareidi you have no pischon peh. THis article and the writer are 100 percent on target. The govt wasnt searching out young rebellious guys or guys that aren’t looking chareidi or not learning. Theyre searching out the guys that are sitting behind sefarim and not behind the computer. Please do us one favor you can play around and cheapen everything you’d like but if you are and you believe thats the truth for you then please be truthful enough and don’t try to put yourself or your opinion in a category (chareidim) that you can’t live up to. Don’t equalize all levels of frumkeit as you’ve done with everything else, such as tznius and tefillah and torah. Yes, kovea ittim latorah is very chashuv but no it doesn’t reach the level of full time learning. Yes, covering your knees is great but it doesn’t reach to covering four inches below your knee. Yes wearing a sheitel is great but it doesn’t reach the level of a woman making sure she wears it in tznius lengths…. WE ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL!!!!! That being said: many things are hard to figure out in society but being a chareidi yid is the easiest thing of it all. It’s very much about a dress code, a sefer and lifnish meshuras hadin approach… If you can’t fathom or take it then I suggest you face yourself in the mirror and begin being honest with yourself and understand that frumkeit has many categories and levels. And chareidi is one you don’t quite understand.
The author implies by his factual descriptions that he was on the scene. If so, why no interviews or pictures? And if the reason is that he was not, in fact, on the scene, then this is nothing more than a propaganda article written with the intent to deceive, which should never have been published.
Midvar sheker tirchak.
AThought— In #13 you started out by laughing. I guess you read my advice to you yesterday and started to practice some of it— lightening up a bit.. At least you’re not STARTING OUT as angry. You’ll get there. Just give it some time. But sorry— for your red envy and jealousy of Israel’s accomplishments and idealistically wonderful chareidi IDF , I don’t have the cure.
Tzibur, yidden, limud Torah, bnei Torah,,,, are some of the yeshivish YINGLISH code words for an extreme point of view, so I knew what’s coming. Shteiging, lemeiseh, lechoyru, ela mei? big dargah.. etc. are other examples that are used with English mishmash to show real frumkeit ( oops… I just did it it too, sorry).
Geula… I would agree with most of what you wrote except for example,length of knee covering. That, my friend , is a chumrah. Now if one chooses to practice that, fine. However, a chareidi by definition means one who trembles before Hashem. You CAN be a chareidi and still wear jeans and tee shirt . It has absolutely NOTHING to do with a style of hat or jacket. However one trembles before Hashem is partly a result or influence of his/her customs. Those may be different than from you or me. Clothes have NOTHING to do with it. The HEART has EVERYTHING to do with it.
#15—–So in my family none of the men wear Cossak-pogromchik fur hats , long coats or boots, does that mean they’re not charaydei? Some of the them don’t wear the fedorah yeshivishe hats ( BY THE WAY…. Fedorah brimmed – down hats were first manufactured for LADIES) either, so according to you they’re not charaydei, even though they are the finest examples of sincerely religious men you’ll ever meet. Your long-winded defense of clothing styles is nonsense.
#15.
What percentage of the “chareidim” that you so carefully observed in NY acted in the way you describe? Seems that if you are bent on looking for bad traits in people you will certainly find them. In evry type of person, such as even yourself……
How about searching for the good?
Interesting concept even for someone as perceptive as yourself. Think about it.Might do you some good.
Some of the names you see posted here are in reality AKSs for : Nachbi ben Vofsi, Palti ben Rofu, Geueil ben Mochi.
Akuperma—- You yeppitz so much about the ins and outs and the micro-minutia of Chareidi-Israeli politics , you put Yentel the Matchmaker to shame. What kind of work are out of that you have so much time?
85+% of Nachal “Chareidi” are non-chareidim.
Rebyid40 says:
August 2, 2013 at 9:42 am
“are not classic Eretz Yisrael bnei torah by a long shot and not chareidim, at least not in the eye of the chareidi tzibur”
The above sentence (from the article) smacks of such pompous arrogance and sinas chinum that I am literally nauseous.
good wake up you have been lied too the talmudic scholars worked and said to work
“Men let alone not davening with minyanim but not davening at all and their wives not covering their knees properly.”
I attend three minyans almost every day, go to daf yomi almost every day, and wear a black velvet kippah. But I don’t own a black hat, wear colored shirts during the week, and don’t wear suits on hot summer days.
My wife also learns regularly, covers her hair 100% of the time when she is outside our house, and wears skirts that are longer than those of most charedi women. But she doesn’t own a wig.
We also don’t even own a working television to receive broadcast or cable channels.
How is our level of observance inadequate?
Yes, I know that not every MO or DL Jew is as makpid in mitzvot as we would like. Nor is every Charedi. But we observe the same Torah. I salute these new soldiers — whether they come from charedi, chardal, dati, or even non-frum backgrounds — for serving Am Yisrael.