Some 200 Nachal Chareidi and Hesder soldiers attending a military ceremony walked out when the women began singing. According to the Kippa report, the incident occurred two weeks ago at a ceremony marking seven years since the formation of the battalion.
Battalion Commander Colonel Udi Ben-Mocha authorized the move, understanding their religious sensitivity to the female vocalists.
The event was sizable, attended by 3,000 soldiers and officers. Attendance was compulsory. Battalion Rav Captain Shoham Orkavi was asked by the colonel to review the program, seeking to avoid embarrassing events. The rav informed the colonel that in line with the estimated timetable, at 39 minutes into the program a female vocalist was scheduled to perform and this would be problematic. The colonel informed the rav the soldiers wishing to leave would be permitted to do so and they would return following the performance.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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12 Responses
So apparently only officers will have their loyalty to zionism tested by having to look at naked women (which in our tradition, what Kol Isha is considered).
Given that the army has to worry about loyalty of hareidi troops, it seems they are acting reasonably. Would the United States have expected Buffalo soldiers to attend some form of racist entertainment? And yes, when you recruit a minority into a special unit, commanded by members of the majority group, with advancement options limited to members of the minority, you are in the same situation as the American “colored” regiments or the British “native” regiments (prove me wrong: send me information on senior officers with beard and pe’os who are know for strictly following halacha in situation where army orders contradict halacha – such as kol isha in public ceremonies).
shkoiach
What a major watersheid event. Jewish soldiers in the Jewish Army of the so-called Jewish State were not required to violate Jewish Law! Who woulda thought!
Will the Army of the so-called Jewish State now, also, tone down its famous immorality tolerance?
KOL HAKOVAD, the beginning of sensitivity training for the IDF is underway.
Since the Israeli government is making such a big deal about recruiting charedim you would think they would be sensitive enough to do away with they kol isha part of the program .
If you rspect the chilonom as human beings, respect the IDF, respect those who are different.. Then you’ll get respect back, like this story. … Act like animals and you’ll get that back in return…
apukerma-please don’t exhibit your ignorance of halocho. “Kol isha” is in no way equal to an undressed woman. Please consult your Poskim before writing erroneous statements.
“rabbiofberlin” – I believe that a good translation of “קול אישה ערווה” is to say it holds that the same sorts of rules that would apply to being in the presence of a naked woman. I know the techically it refers only to the “crotch” area, but I would argue that we would consider a woman to be naked if that was uncovered, even if she was otherwise dressed. The alternative reading would suggest we consider singing in front of men to be the equivalent of “fornication”, and that is clearly not a correct translation of the expression. If fact, our laws also consider a fully dressed woman to be “naked” if she is a Jewish married woman with uncovered hair. I believe that translating the classic legalism to mean “The voice of a woman singing is considered to be as if she was naked” is correct.
I also know that one is not doing an averiah by being in the presence of a naked person, but it is a clear custom among frum men to try to avoid being in the presence of a naked woman (and there are issues of saying a bracha in their presence), and that walking out if such nakedness is “on the program” is an appropriate response.
apukerma- The contortions that you are jumping through shows that you are totally wrong in halachic terms. There is absolutely no cmopariosn between a genuine “ervah” (makedness of intimate places) and “kol be’idsha ervah”. If you need “amreh mekomos’ I’ll be happy to enlighten you.
#5 Jerry, there is no reason to remove the “kol Isha” part of the program since this is NOT a religious army and the women enlist willingly and do their fair share. If they wish to sing they are entitled to as any other soldier in the battalion. That is their choice. Those who do not wish to listen have been given a choice as well. Please use some common sense when commenting.
kol hakovod. May both sides learn to respect each other and attempt to accommodate one another.
If you need “amreh mekomos’ I’ll be happy to enlighten you:
Thank you for your offer. I’ll stick to Daas Torah (not Dat torah). Those who have legitimacy from a Torah perspective can clearly be seen avoid situation where they would have to listen to women singing, looking at women who while not naked are showing to much flesh by our community standards, of if married are bareheaded. That’s why frum Jews have separate seating at most events, much to the consternation of our assimilationist cousins.
aries2756 : The women are not singing of their own volition. They are ordered to sing. It was put on the program to make it clear to bnei Torah that their presence isn’t welcome, and to survive in the army they need to adopt “modern” halachic opinions that are clearly against the ways of their families and ancestors. A bunch of female soldiers displaying their charms on their own is a different issue entirely.