In a meeting with French Ambassador to Israel Cristophe Bigot, MK (Yahadut Hatorah) Meir Porush was asked to explain the chareidi position regarding the imminent draft of many more chareidim. Porush told the French diplomat that if the chareidim are indeed drafted as the government signals will be the case, many more of them will no longer view Israel and their home.
Porush explained how Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion understood the need to permit bnei yeshivos to continue their limud, signing an agreement that permitted them to wave military service. He added the chareidim view Torah study as paramount for their lives as well as towards providing protection for Israel.
Porush added that if the draft is actualized, the chareidim will declare to the world that Israel is no longer the home of those seeking to lead a Torah lifestyle.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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19 Responses
1. Ben Gurion couldn’t care bupkes about Torah. If the Hareidim opposed the state, it could have tilted the balance in favor of an United Nations Trusteeship given to the Americans (the Brits said they were giving up the mandate, and left it to the UN to sort things out). In addition many Americans were nervous about supporting Israel since Israel was very socialist, with a strong pro-communist movement – and persecuting religious people would have been a problem.
2. If the government goes through with its plan, the massive resistance will mean that Hareidim will still see Eretz Yisrael as their country, but will no longer see Medinat Yisrael as their government, and will be open to other options. At the point when there are mass arrests and closing of Jewish schools, when the zionists says “Aren’t you really better off under the zionists then under those stinking Arabs” (to quote some fellow posters on YWN), and at that point the answer will be “At least the Arabs would let us learn in peace”.
That threat is emptier than a beer can after the Super Bowl.
No offense, but many Israelis would would be very happy with these new realities…
#1 “At least the Arabs would let us learn in peace”.
at so is Isreal all they are asking that men between 18-23 jion the army the rest can learn all they want.
#1 You got to catch up with the times.
Gd forbid if the Arabs are sovereign in Eretz Yisroel no INFIDELS (JEWS)will be allowed to reside there….so the wish of a One State under Arab rule is a joke of all jokes.
#2- No it isn’t.
1. If you have 10% of Israel’s Jewish population announcing they no longer favor having a zionist state, that undermines the claim of Israel as a Jewish homeland. It’s hard to be a “haven” when you are expelling or imprisoning people for being too Jewish.
2. It lends great support for a one state solution, which is what most Arabs favor.
3. Most of Israel’s non-Jewish support is from Christians who see Israel in religious terms, and so becoming anti-religion (not to mention radically pro-gay and pro-abortion) won’t encourage them to continue supporting Israel.
#1 You got to catch up with the reality of Arab rule.
If gdforbid Eretz Yisroel should ever be under Arab sovereignty, No INFIDELS (JEWS) will be allowed to reside there under any circumstances. So the dream of a One State under the genteel Arabs with Jewish residents living there is a dream of all dreams.
#1,
1. Israel is the Jewish homeland because Hashem said so. If some people are apikorsim that does not change things.
2. I am also in favor of a one-state solution. All of EY for us with a Palestine somewhere else.
3. I don’t think that they are ignorant of these regrettable realities. I think they also understand that they would change if frum Jews make mass aliya.
As for what Porush said, this proves that they just want a free ride. Saying this to a foreign ambassador is malshinut.
France recently abolished draft. When they had the draft, Rabbi Porush thinks they would just officiallly patur all the frum people in France?
Akuperma, stop with your non-sense — no other country would put up with such an arrangement as in Israel now.
Ben gourion did not care about religion ,and he only agreed to the Chazon Ich z’tzal for 600 bachourim and not 6000 or even more as today.
If the zionists are offering two choices, one of which is to give up learning Torah and adopt a modern western lifestyle and the other is to go back to being a autonomous community under Arab rule, most Bnei Torah will choose the former. For the last 60+ years the zionists offered the hareidim the opportunity to live in Israel in peace, but that is apparently unacceptable to the zionists. I suggest that AviK and Zionflag should talk to their fellow zionists and convince them to leave the Hareidim alone – but if they think they can crush the Hareidim and force them to adopt a more secular lifestyle, they should be prepared for an existential fight – and the Bnei Torah have managed to outlast all comers ever since we left some smartass Egyptians drowing.
Mr. Peakman, so at ages 18-23 the so called “Jewish country” wouldn’t let you practice your Jewish religion. How pathetic
#12 – Most Jews in the “Jewish country” sees serving in the IDF to protect Jews from those who wish to kill them to be part and parcel of the practice of the “Jewish religion”, besides being a civil duty.
Legufo, the learned MK realizes that no one in Israel gives any weight to his ‘threat’ but he seems to hope that he can dupe a goyishe ambassador.
Post 11 — should read, will choose the latter (i.e. better to give up zionism than give up Torah)
Orthodox says:
June 12, 2013 at 3:35 pm
Mr. Peakman, so at ages 18-23 the so called “Jewish country” wouldn’t let you practice your Jewish religion. How pathetic
you are a lier. they still can be frum Jews proof there are many frum jews in the army.
stop the nonsnese none but the ultra are buying it
#4. When did the Arabs ever let us learn in peace. Even RAMBAM had to appear Muslim in public.
Also, how me where in the Torah does it say that Jews shouldn’t serve in the Army, especially in their own State?
What of all the Chareidim who aren’t learning, even part-time? There are many Chareidim and Dati soldiers who learn more than Chareidim not in the army. If they are not really learning, they should serve the Country that they live in. They would be protecting other Yiddin. Is that a crime? If show, show us where.
akuperma – Most American Christians have no idea what the Haredim are about because you won’t talk to them. In fact, many Haredim routinely demonize the Christians as a matter of course. I know you think they’re stupid enough to buy into your crass symbolism about “religious persecution”, but the Jews that talk to (and even befriend) Christians are secular. It’s really amazing to watch your world crumble around you and your twisted reactions to them.
If you think you’d last 10 seconds in a dhimmi, by all means… move to Damascus, they’d love to have you.
I was always wondering; when you look back in history, you’ll find that the more intelligent gentile is, the more tolerant he is, but by us it’s r”l vice versa. Can anyone explain it here?
“For the last 60+ years the zionists offered the hareidim the opportunity to live in Israel in peace”……..AND SUPPORTED THEIR LIMUD HATORAH & Lifestyle B”H.
Regarding Arab Rule:
Once again INFIDELS (JEWS) will be offered transference to a non-Mid Eastern Country (the best option), the SEA, or beheaded after the women folk are violated.