YWN has just received a letter written by HaRav Shmuel Kamenetsky Shlita, the Rosh Yeshiva of Philadelphia which he wrote after being asked by many people if they should participate in a Satmar organized anti-Israel rally in Manhattan, scheduled for this Sunday.
In the letter, Rav Kamenetsky says that he received a letter this morning signed by the Gadol HaDor, Maran Hagon HaRav Chaim Kanievskey Shlita, where he affirmed that that the position of Maran Hagon HaRav Aron leib Shteinman Shlita is that Hafganos should not be made, since there is no Toeles in them, but the Ikar is that people should increase their Limud Hatorah, Yiras Shomayim, and Tefillos, and only through that (Torah & tefillah) will the harsh Gezeiros become null and void.
Click on the image to enlarge the letter
As was first reported by YWN two weeks ago, both Satmar Rebbes , Rav Zalman Leib Teitlebaum of Williamsburg and Rav Aaron Teitlebaum of Kiryas Yoel have agreed to appear on the same podium.
(Dov Gordon – YWN)
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40 Responses
Politically this will be interesting for two reasons.
It will measure the relative strength of the anti-zionist gedolim compared to the (de facto) pro-zionist gedolim, in light of the latter having been betrayed by the zionists. It is interesting to see if the inability of the pro-zionist gedolim to continue to “deliver” the support of the Israeli government will translate into increased support for those who have been saying all along that zionism was a big mistake.
It will also indicate to what extent frum Jews in America are considering shifting from a policy of blind support for the Israeli government, regardless of its policies. Without the blank check that the orthodox give the zionists (the non–frum are already showing disinterest in supporting the zionists, albeit for other reasons), American politicians especially among the Democrats, may be less willing to support the Israelis when the Israeli position is contrary to America’s interests, as if often is.
im confused, i thought satmar doesnt hold of frum yidden living in israel. they call it zionism, so why the protest??
Amen vAmen.
At least Eretz Yisroel can unite two feuding brothers?
#2 They don’t approve of Jews having their own government in Israel. They have no problem with Jews living there, for example as they did under the British Mandate or the Turkish-Ottoman Empire. It is the Israeli government they will have nothing to do with.
The two brothers of stamar will be on the same podium, but will have rabbis sitting between them and are coming in diffrent entrences!!
Parshas korach and we don’t learn a thing
In response to akuperma: Rabbonim are not necessarily ‘pro-zionist’ or ‘anti-zionist’, some are simply indifferent.
I heard they were originally going to have a rally on “Ahavas Yisroel”, but they couldn’t get BOTH Satmar Rebbe’s to attend on the same stage.
boruch hashem – noone from the litvish olam will join this hate rally.
we all hate the medina, but follow the derech of the chazon ish and rav shach etc.
this will be a hate rally by satmar neurei karta
Just wait until the fistfights start on the stage (hamayvin yavin) and it’s broadcast to the world.
Can’t wait!
I heard Chaim Berlin was going. Any truth to that?
It’s very important, because that would mean that all 60 guys in the kollel will be there.
Mammish huge. A huge statement (not).
#6— you could be indifferent up through 2012 – ignore the issue in return for the zionists agreeing to ignore you — that world has changed, and now you must make a choice, or you pro-zionist (meaning anti-Torah), or pro-Torah (meaning anti-zionist). The complication is that if you live in Eretz Yisrael, being pro-Torah now means you will be a criminal and a traitor.
#2- Satmar is very pro-Eretz Yisrael. That’s why they want the zionists to leave – so frum Jews can live in Eretz Yisrael in peace and quiet. Based on the three oaths, unless the zionists (or other goyim) actively and severely persecute the frum Jews, armed resistance is not allowed.
boruch hashem in lakewood, the roshei yeshiva ordered all the phone letters ripped off the walls.
bnei taaareh will be learning shtark, and will not participate in any rally’s with Ahmadinejad lovers!
If anyone chaps teh matziv here, Reb Shmuel buried any traction the Litvish olam had. Boruch Hashem!
Interesting. I just saw flyers in the Avraichem Shul (Flatbush) a letter from Rav Elya Ber Vachtfogel Shlita that one SHOULD go to the protest. He states in the letter that he spoke with Rav Chaim Kanievsky son, Rav Shlomo Shlita & he concurred with his Father that one SHOULD go!
My Rav said Baalabatim should go & Bochurim/Kollel Yungerlite should stay in the Bais Medrash.
#13
Apparently for some strange reason our gedolim disagree with you.
I’m sure when they finally come to their senses they will call you to ask your advice on the correct way to act.
Please wait by your phone for their call… I’m sure it won’t be long now
#14 – Apparently, you read false letters. See this yet? http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=171983
aha, so if satmar doesnt want us to have out own country, again the question, why the protest? its rechining with the isreali government that they shouldnt draft the yeshiva people, i thought they dont give credence to the government!!
I think Rav Kanievsky and Shteinmen realize that this demonstration will be a PR fiasco for the frum community in the United States and have shown good judgment in discouraging attendance.
To quote you, Akuperma: “that world has changed, and now you must make a choice, or you pro-zionist (meaning anti-Torah), or pro-Torah (meaning anti-Zionist)”
I thought you had already gotten your most vile, vicious posts out of your system already. Apparently I was wrong.
Mods- is there any way you can switch this guy’s user name to “ferd”. THIS is the real one!
I dont understand this header “Gdolie & poskie Hador” their are many other ”Gedolie & poskie Had or” saying that you should go.
Remember that unless someone stops the steamroller that is developing against the frum community, the Jews in Eretz Yisrael will within a short time have to choose between giving up a Hareidi level of observance and become good religious zionists, or going into open opposition against the zionist state. There still is time to home for a peaceful resolution, but the clock is running. If it runs out, then even the establised rabbanim in the good yeshivos will have to start sounding like Satmarers. The zionists have declared war on us, and there are perhaps only a few months to avert the confrontation.
#8 Ferd, don’t make blanket statements that are untrue. We don’t all hate the medina. Maybe you do, but that’s because you don’t know any better.
I will never, Never, NEVER participate in a public protest against the State of Israel while in the diaspora. It is exactly what the anti-Semites and sonei Israel want to see.
Did Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum z’tz’l ever endorse a diaspora public protest against Medinat Yisrael?
That’s for sure that the medina is ooser min hatorah ,but when satmar desides to go together with everybody is because they c in a way that they can help everybody in israel ,& will not give extra hatE to the medina this time
“giving up a Hareidi level of observance and become good religious zionists”
The level of observance among Religious Zionists in Israel ranges from lax to very careful. There are enthusiastic Modern Orthodox RZs who are completely observant, following their Modern Orthodox rabbis. And more to the point of the comment, there are Charedi Religious Zionists whose level of observance is identical to that of Charedim except for clothing, willingness to serve in the army, and acceptance of secular education. There is even a term for them: Chardal — for Charedi Dati Leumi. They have some very respected rabbis.
#23 I second that motion.
we all hate the medina——any statistics on this absurd statement, what does HATE mean anyway?
Akuperma, prior to the State, please tell when and where 65,000 Hareidi men sat and learned. By the way, ask the Satmar brothers at the rally why they are allowed to sue each other in Civil Court
Correction:
Just to clarify things a bit, there seems to be differences of opinion between the leading Rabbonin in E. Isreal and abroad as to the correct strategy of combating this gezairah. While R. Shteinman seems to oppose hafganos (protests) and advises us to rather strenghten ourselves in learling, many leading Gedolim do seem to feel that the time does indeed call for hafganos. The protest on motzei shavuos was attended by R. Shmuel Auerbach, R. Dovid Soloveitchik, R. Meir Soloveitchik (sons of the Brisker Rov), R. Yitchok Tuvia Weiss and R. Moshe Shternbuch of the Eidah Hacharaidis, and many others. Many leading Gedolim and Admorim in America have called upon us to attend the Manhattan protest as well, most prominent among them R. Elya Ber Wachtfogel, R. Aaron Schechter and the Admorim of Satmar. Certainly these Gedolim are entitled to an opinion, and while one certainly may follow R. Shteinman and R. Kamenetzky, the Daas Torah of the above mentioned Gedolim must if not followed at least be respected.
Moderators Note: The Soliveitchik’s were at the Levaya of Reb Bereyl’s wife on Motzei Shavuos. They were not at any Hafganah. You are a L-I-A-R.
#23
“Did Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum z’tz’l ever endorse a diaspora public protest against Medinat Yisrael?”
Of course he did! And so did Rav Moshe Feinstein and many others. I heard it from their mouths! (Of course there were some specific demonstrations that were not approved by the gedolim, but whenever there was a serious threat, like nituchei meisim, or giyus bonos etc. they had no compunctions about protesting the medina).
to the moderators response #28: to call him a liar is just plain childish as he obviously has misinformation and the main point still sticks which is they were for the protest then and they are for the protest today. to ignore there opinion is doing injustice to the daas torah of brisk which is of paramount importance
The Chaim Berlin alumni email of this past Erev shabbos included the request that all bnei hayeshiva be at foley square today. as of this posting, I have not seen or heard of a retraction of that request.
who cares about chaim berlin?
seriously.
get a life.
all 7 chaim berliners will be there. yay.
viter
chaim berlin will stand on the same stage as two brothers who made the biggest chillul hashem by refusing to go to BAIS DDIN….oh wait a minute….that seems familiar to chaim berlin?
no?
ok, we’ll leave it at that.
this entire thing is falsh vee der skverer fish maysah
To quote one of my children, “common sense is very uncommon”. Our own people of all walks of life, chareidim, satmar, yeshivish are doing an excellent job of teaching the goyim to hate us. Example is the best lesson & teacher. And the open and advertised criticism, mockery, and hatred of one Yid for another is a Grand Chilul Hashem and excellent artillery and ammunition for all our foreign enemies.
Perhaps the two brothers should have a duel or shoot out privately in one of their own Batei Medrash with no publicity, may the best man win.
If this took place at any other time of the year, I would council the same as I do now, but considering that it is Motzoai Parsshas Korach, we should redouble our efforts. Now is a time for achdus. How do we accomplish this when we have differences of opinion? Very simple. Follow your leadership but respect other people’s opinion. I personally identify with those who believe that nothing will be accomplished by demonstrations, but I respect the opinion of those who would like to demonstrate. It’s interesting that many of the voices for demonstrating today, were against demonstrating for Soviet Jewry because they believed that Agudah can accomplish more via diplomacy. But the USA is a free country, B”H. So, if your manhig says demonstrate, go right ahead. Time will tell which is the better approach.
Why Do you write in the headline “organized by Satmar” when it is truely called by lots of gedolim not affiliated with satmar as well
he harsh Gezeiros is this a joke? Asking people nothing more than they ask of others, is he harsh Geziros?
#37-
It’s no joke. There may be differences of opinions among the gedolim concerning the efficacy or even the wisdom of a public protest at this time, but ALL the gedolim agree that these are “harsh gezeiros”.
To the moderator sitting in your US office. I’m here in Eretz Yosroel and saw Reb Dovid Soloveitchik Shlit”a with my own eyes arrive at the mechaa motzei shavuos which started at 7:00pm don’t forget it wasn’t yom Tov anymore in EY and the levaya was called for 9:30 and didn’t start until ten and lasted for a mere half an hour.
Shoita gamur. That about sums up the content of your commment as well.