28 Responses

1. In my option all Bochrim should do that that just go in to a Bais Hmadrish and learn. The way Bochrim are being treated this days who needs a Yeshive!

2. Wowww!!!

3. Is any godol backing the yeshiva management’s decision?

4. why all the anonimity?

5. firstly for the record i personally went to the levaya though im not chasidish , i personally saw 3 of the lakewood roshe yeshiva at the levaya as well as one of the rosh yeshiva of mir yerushalyim at the levaya
   that being said a few points must be clarified
   A) this yeshiva is a mesivta-high school not a bais medrash as many may have misunderstood
   B) this particular mesivta is known for its intense hasmodo and level of learning . learns way past rosh chodesh until a few days before yomtov and starts before rosh chodesh as well
   to put this in the proper prospective the rosh mesivta didnt allow his talmidim to go to his own schvers levaya (RAV N ZT’L) which was held locally in lakewood they were allowed to attend only bain hasdorim between 1-3pm but the bochurim needed to be back in time for 2nd seder
   he davend yomim noryim in yeshiva, very soon after suffering a major heart attack with an easy chair brought in to the bais medrash surrounded by curtains what im trying to convey is hes hard on himself as well not only on his talmidim
   C)he doesnt chas vesholam have anything against chasidim or admorim , in fact he wears a gartel (and even goes to the mikva every day even ON SHABBOS !) his agenda is only one thing HASMODAS HATORAH!!
   D)ANYONE WHO HAS ANY UNDERSTANDING OF RUNNING A SCHOOL WILL BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT LISTENING TO AUTHORITY ENTAILS OR RATHER THE DAMAGE OF RUNNING A SCHOOL WHEN TALMIDIM NOT JUST A HANDFUL BUT 50 TALMIDIM !!! THUMB THEIR NOSE AT AUTHORITY you lose the respect and ability to be effective as a rosh yeshiva or rebbe HE HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO SUSPEND AND THROW THEM OUT IF NOT FOR THEMSELVES FOR THE BOCHURIM WHO REMAINED i suspect those who he asked not to return after pesach werent from the biggest masmidim in the first place and this was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back
   that being said im sure in hindsight had he known the boys wouldnt listen to him im sure he would have handled the situation differently perhaps allowing the boys to attend the levaya in monsey only missing 2nd seder etc
   but once the boys asked (which they shouldnt have asked if you ask a shayala its treif)and were told they dont have permission to go they shouldnt have gone. if going to the levaya was so important, their parents should have called up to speak to the rosh yeshiva and get special permission for them
   everyone going to this mesivta is aware of their intensity and frowning and how makpid they are about missing sedorim . no one is forced to go their, its obviously not for everyone and chasidim in general have a rule אין גא-ט און אין רבי
   as i said at the beginning i personally went and understand the boys for going, but from the yeshivas perspective ,they need to show who’s boss and theirs a price to pay when not listening to a rosh yeshiva . if you dont follow the rules of the yeshiva then leave and go to a mesivta which lets you get away with coming and going when ever and wherever you want hopefully this sheds light to the OTHER SIDE

6. where do they sleep now ? dormitory?

7. its the last day of the zman these bucherim are shiur gimmel and on their way out anyway

8. Please come to Baltimore – I am sure that the Chassidishe Oilom here would be happy to open a Chassidishe Yeshiva here to go along with the 30+ members of the Khal Chassidim Kollel Le’Horo’ah Chassidishe Kollel.

9. This whole story is a true Bizyaon hatorah. We should all recognize that a yeshiva has the authority to make their own decisions and not have to conform to the Daas of others including us. They also do not have to adhere to every Rebbe and Rosh Yeshivas shita in the world. If the bochurim do not like it they can leave.
   This entire story should have never been published, shame on the publishers!

10. The entire basis of this being a news story is ridiculous! People are accusing others of saying something wrong without any knowledge of any facts and maligning and accusing people in the process. What happened to hilchos loshon horah?!? Perhaps TYW should post a disclaimer, similar as you do at the end of all the har habayis stories stating: gedloi torah throughout the generations, including every single tana, amora, rishon, achron, litvish and chassidish godal forbid saying over and being mikabel loshon haroah.

11. I have 1 question for YWN. You pride yourself on being run with daas torah. Was daas torah asked if these articles should be published?

12. Silly people talk about people.
    Mediocre people talk about things.
    Smart people talk about ideas.

    Let’s keep the comments to those about hashkafa rather than put downs of people.

13. You do the crime, so to speak, you do the time. That being said, they are doing exactly what they should do!

    HOWEVER, if the person took the picture with the possible intention of trying to “shtuch” the hanholas hayeshiva, he could be classified as a TIPISH.

14. I totally think Bochurim should listen to daas Baal Habayis (YWN) instead of their own Rosh Yeshiva.

15. Lakewood bochurim

    While I sympathize with many who take issue with bochurim violating the instructions of a Rosh Yeshiva, and similarly with gezairos such as this being levied on the bochurim, I do commend YWN for publishing the story.

    There are several issues raised here, and everyone involved is wrong. I don’t mean this by way of blaming, but there are lessons to learn. Let’s get specific.

    1. A Gadol Beyisroel who served the entire Klal without regard to their affiliation to the chassidishe or litvishe worlds, whose dedication to Avodas Hashem was exemplary to all, whose chesed was boundless, was taken from us. This terrible loss needs to be marked by everyone without exception. It was an event important enough for hundreds of Roshei Yeshivos, talmidei Chachomim, rabbonim, rebbes, and thousands of bnei yeshiva and baalei batim to cancel their other activities to give this Gadol his last Kavod. I don’t know that the “chassidishe card” was being played, as some suggested. But giving this last Kavod should have been considered a priority.

    2. Today, the barriers and boundaries that once existed between chassidishe and litvishe communities have been largely eliminated. Any resurrection is a regression in our primary goal of achdus needed to merit Moshiach.

    3. Rules in yeshivos are made for a reason. It is a free country, and these rules are not chukim, and they can be questioned. But flagrant violation is a different story. I take strong issue with many of the seemingly punitive parking restrictions. But I remain obligated to follow them.

    4. Is the consequence of suspension or expulsion reasonable. I propose that maybe it is not. It is a show of force, and does inform all that the authority figure here is angry. But is that chinuch or is it battle? In war, one side wins by technicality, and both suffer losses. In chinuch, the mission is not victory or control, but success at living a Torah life. The mechanech has a distinct obligation to teach and guide. Discipline is a last resort. Punishments don’t teach; they control. I would hope that no yeshiva sees itself as a controlling authority more than a place to train our youth to lead a Torah life. A Rosh Yeshiva needs to intervene so as to promote growth for the budding talmid chochom who erred in judgment. That’s true chinuch. Many of our gedolim, both litvishe and chassidishe practiced that, and there are generations of shomrei Torah and Mitzvos to prove it.

16. What is the point of a yeshiva? To be machanich your pupils. The yeshiva in question is not teaching anything to the 50 bachrim that got suspended so it was asanine to suspend them. Period.

    Now that the yeshiva did suspend them they should be rightly ridiculed but at the same time they can’t renege because they then look weak and stupid. Better to look stong and stupid then weak and foolish.

17. everything in proper context;
    1. in this particular yeshiva the drawing card is the hasmodoh & good oilam ITS NOT the rosh or his shiur so this wasnt a in your face meridah ,
    2. being that many bochurim are chassidish & the rosh is not there is a distance between them
    3. rav B is a menahel not a godol – he is well meaning , but an tunnel visioned akshan -rav B doesnt have shimush or a mesorah , hashem has been mezakeh him with a makom torah ashrei lo
    4. finally hashpooh is not about force or control and this particular group of bochurim who are his top shiur and have been there for years SENT THE ROSH A CLEAR MESSAGE that if you rule with narcassisim & gaaveh the second we get big enough we are boet bakol !! the hamon need not worry most of these bochurim are going to the top places next zman and if its emes that he didnt let his bochurim go to rav nossons levaya – if if .. nothing needs to be said

18. Let’s summarize the issues here:
    1) Did the bochurim do right for asking to begin with (some above said “az m’fregt iz treif”). I feel that they did the proper and correct thing. They asked for permission. In their wildest dreams they surely did not believe that the Hanholo would not let them go. After all – we were talking about the levaya of the Skulener Rebbe z”l – no more be said
    2) Now that they were told not to go – were they right in going anyway? No. They should have organized their parents and other Rabbonim/Roshei Yeshiva with more “sechel” to argue for them.
    3) But you are talking about bochurim teenagers – many surely remembered the Rebbe z”l from either a tish, davening, being with him at a Simcha, etc. Teenage bochurim don’t always make decisions the way elder people would or should. So a few bochurim heated up the rest to go anyway – and they all went.
    OK – so now do they deserve to be punished? Probably yes. But thrown out??!! That’s very extreme. That never should have happened. That was the elder Roshei Yeshiva who now lost their cool and “sechel” and did something rash (which I am sure that they regret now).
    4) Should this be discussed on a blog? No. It shouldn’t have have happened to begin with. Now that it did happen, we can all agree that this IS big news in the Torah velt. It smells from the old Litvish vs Chassidish machlokes. It IS a major chinuch blunder, even though it was represented as a chinuch decision by the Roshai Yeshiva.
    5) Let’s hope that the Yeshiva will find a way to save their kovod and yet allow the bochurim back. And there will be Sholom al Yisroel

19. They don’t look like a ליידיגר chevra to me.

20. I would not second guess their Rosh Mesivta’s decision or reasoning. However, one thing should be a iron clad rule, with
    teenagers/younger bochrim, they can not be hefkeres. Also, the r”m is responsible for the welfare of his talmidim and can be sued etc if any mishap occurred. Perhaps with a mashgiach and their own bus, the rosh mesivta could have let them go[ of course with learning on the bus]

21. DWKL1 A true Yeshiva is not only about learning with hasmada 24/7, it’s not only about listening to Daas Torah and respecting authority, it’s not about what’s common today “this is how we run our yeshiva if you don’t like it leave”. A true Yeshiva is also about caring for the telmidim’s needs and providing growth in ruchnius to each and every student in their own gifts and potential to grow in ruchnius in their own ways. That being said, a Rosh Yeshiva who doesn’t show care to his student’s needs, or doesn’t understand the importance for his students needs to attend a levaya of their Gadol Hador cannot be a good manhig. It wasn’t one or two students, there were FIFTY of them! he either didn’t understand how important for THEM to attend the levaya or didn’t care for their needs. If I was one of those students I would NOT want to go back to that Yeshiva even if they wanted me.

22. The telzer rosh hayeshiva rav gifter za”l used to say over a story about himself when he was a bachur in telz lots.
    He was kicked out of the yeshiva for 2 weeks and for those two weeks he learned in the city bais medrash and some people brought him food.
    He added with his chuckel those were the best two weeks of his learning in all the years there because he had the yetzer hara with him also.
    If these boys turn out even half as successful as rav gifter then they’re doing pretty good

23. A Menahel? A Rosh Yeshiva? Clearly, very few here know the person that all are writing about. He loves being called by those titles. You’re all feeding his ego. He is now ecstatic that there are people here building up his legacy. Please don’t misunderstand me, it’s not my purpose here to knock anyone; especially someone who can give a good Mesivta level Chumash Shiur. The proper way to deal with such a character is to just ignore him.

    Think for a moment; there is an obvious reason why there are persons in Lakewood that are sponsoring the use of a shul together with meals for all these great and wonderful bachurim.

    BTW, to the little I know, I heard that when he makes Kiddush on Shabbos night he wears a Streimel together with his Gartel , and by day a Litvishe Kapul.

24. Let’s summarize all that we know.

    1. 50 bachurim allegedly suspended from an anonymous yeshiva for allegedly violating something the rosh yeshiva may or may not have said or implied.

    2. The ages of these bachurim are given as “mesivta” which would put them anywhere between 14 and 18.

    3. These bachurim may or may not have traveled themselves or with their parents.

    4. These bachurim may or may not have had their parents permission.

    5. This rosh mesivta/menahel/rosh yeshiva might be a tremendous Talmud chacham and gaon then again he might be a complete am haaretz.

    6. A prominent chasdidishe Rebbe from ey allegedly pens an open letter to several Jewish websites.

    7. Based on their detailed “knowledge” of the particulars people have taken to making fun of and even defaming people they may or may not know. Anonymously of course. I’m sure the Skulener Rebbe Zl is a shepping nachas (sarcasm) over these comments written in his honor.

25. Heckter:

    That was pure lashon horah. What he wears is not an issue. If he is kooky, that’s also not an issue. I disagree with his handling of this matter. He should have had the sensitivity to recognize the bochurim wanting to do something positive, and he probably should have attended the levaya with them. The consequence is a power display, not chinuch. The bochurim have the obligation to follow their instructions even if they disagree. Bringing in extraneous issues is foolish, and you don’t make a case by bringing them into discussion. There are issues to debate, which I did, and I voiced my positions. Stick with the real issues.

26. apushatayid, pray tell me what this has to do with the Skulener Rebbe (btw) ZTL? Everyone writes for their self and not for the Rebbe’s honor, or dishonor C”V.

    This is a discussion which is an unfortunate discussion. I don’t know the details so I didn’t want to get into it, but the more details I hear from those that speak with inside information, the more Gefelt Ess Mir Nisht. Kevar Hoyo Le’olomim that Bocherim (Choshiva Bocherim; no, the Cheshivsta Bocherim) in a Yeshiva were expelled, and it was a blessing for those Bocherim and for a new Yeshiva of a Chasidus that was then opened as a result.

    In support here of the Rosh Yeshiva, many schools in Brooklyn also limited their students how long they can go, and some did not let their students (talking about big girls) go, because who is going to take Achreiyess on them.

    Nevertheless, although the Rosh Yeshiva might have initially been right (I won’t second guess him), the aftermath is what REALLY counts, and we are all watching to see what happens. Chachomim Hizeharu Bedivreichem, and Kol’Shken in your actions.

    I know it’s hard but people have to do the right thing and forget about themselves. It is the future of these Bocherim and how history and most importantly Hashem will judge the players here. I sure would not want to be in the shoes of the decision makers. Maybe a Sheileh from the Sar HaTorah Harav Chaim Kanievsky Shlit”a is in order.

27. Hahsem will also judge those who stick therir nose into a matter that they know nothing about, and in the name of defending the Skulener Rebbe Z’l go on to defame and besmisrch a rosh yeshiva they may or may not know.

28. Who besmirched and defamed? I wrote clearly that I don’t second guess his decision not to let them go (and others in Brookly did so too). But NOW the matter is too big for him, me, or you. He can be very great and still be hard pressed what to do in the aftermath. I have no idea who he is, but assume he must be a Choshiva Rosh Yeshiva, and I never did nor will ever engage in character assassination.