HaGaon HaRav Aaron Yehuda Leib Shteinman Shlita reportedly sent a letter of chizuk and instruction to directors of talmidei Torah regarding possible government sanctions. The Gadol Hador referred to government efforts to compel talmidei torah to include core subjects in the curriculum of their school of face the loss of significant government funding.
Kikar Shabbos quotes the rav as instructing the principals of these mosdos to “Remain firm as a stone wall” in the face of efforts to exert authority over the talmidei torah. Rav Shteinman is quoted as saying “They should take a look at themselves and their successes in education R”L.”
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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17 Responses
i guess the rav disapproves of 90% of the american chareidi yeshivos that teach “core subjects.”
And Rav Shteinman is one of the most moderate Chareidi Gedolim. If he tell us this is a call to arms against the Israeli Government, we know the leadership of Klal Yisroel is solidly behind this.
Perhaps the rav is a bit out of touch with the success of EY’s public education and university system in turning out some of the world’s greatest scientists, engineers, doctors etc. The Israeli education system is a crucial element in making EY’s economy among the fastest growing among developed economies. There were more new high-tech startups in EY than all of Europe combined (except for the UK and Germany) last year. While Shteinman may not believe that this is evidence of a great educational system, most of the rest of the world does so the R’L sarcasm is grossly unwarranted.
Actually, most of the chareidi herdarim end up teaching “core subjects” such as language skills and math, but not the way the government tells them to. And of course, they leave out “civics” (and zionist political indoctrination). Given that most hareidim in Israel are quite proficient in at least Hebrew, and frequently additional languages, and seem to be able to run businesses (which requires math), it seems they are doing something right.
The issue is who controls the curriculum.
Chareidi yeshivot in most countries in the world teach “core subjects”. In many of those countries, it is mandatory. Were it really asur, the schools would close and the Jews would leave. Why is it not a problem that the governments of France, or British Columbia, or Quebec, or New York “exert authority over the talmidei torah”?
#3
if he’s in or out of touch idk, but YOU are definitely out of touch of reality! just look into daily crime in the public schools in that medinat hageule NOT ONE DAY passes without a stabbing/killing and you’re proud of that education?
besides there’s a cheram of R YL diskin brisker rav zatzal against learning any languages or limudei chol in EY and he concludes NO RAV till moshiach is allowed to be matir that cheram! the biggest gedolim in that generation signed on that!
the statistics shows that chareidy boys are far more better in math then public schoolers!
real gedolim wont come from learning their curriculum NEVER!
Gadolhadorah, if you were a true gadol hadorah (I think you are gadol b’toilet!) you would watch your tongue for fear it falls out like the m’raglim’s did!
charliehall, I am glad to see you are around to absolutely TWIST the words of daas torah to fit your TWISTED “Socialism & Liberalism Über Alles” agenda. You are also one who should take heed of the punishment to the m’raglim.
#1 and #5: Rav Shteinman is not talking to mosdos outside of Eretz Yisroel.
#3: I am a scientist myself (PhD in Physics), and I will tell you that if you are a Jew, you do not measure success by secular degrees, hi-tech startups, or any of these meaningless, mundane, materialistic measures. And it’s RAV Shteinman, to you. I expect you don’t call a physics professor Mr. Einstein, l’havdil, so don’t go around referring to the Gadol Hador without his honorific.
to #8 Be happy you were given the opportunity to get a PhD, most children in israel and unfortunately here in America don’t have such an opportunity because everybody is forced to sit in kollel min 6 years after they get married.
#9: Six years of Kollel is far far better than any Ph.D.
In fact, one day in Kollel is far far better than any Ph.D.
To “shazam” I do not believe for one moment thast you have a Ph.D! To say that Jews do not measure success by secular succees is ludicrous. Where do you think that the yeshivos get their money ? What happened to “rebbe mechabed ashirim”? whatever happened to “boruch oleinu’ that we say every shemonei esreh? What happened to all the Jewish doctors who have saved countless of Jews and people? Of course, success can be measured in any field. Whether to dedicate one’s life to learning is a different question altogether but success can be had in other fields too.
rabbiofberlin : The Jews in Germany had lots of secular success, and what good did it do them? The Jews of America and Israel have lots of secular success, but in the long run what good will it do them. Success in this world has no lasting substance.
The Jews of Bavel had plenty of secular success, but all we remember them for is their accomplishments in Torah?
Our existence is not based on our fancy degrees (I have several) and prestigious jobs – but on Torah and Mitsvos. That is what R. Shteinman (et al.) understand, and what the likes of Lapid, Piron and Bennett do not.
Most of the chinuch atzmai chedarim already teach many core subjects and getting around ‘civics’ should also be possible.
The teacher training programs for females should figure out how to award diplomas so that their graduates can earn a decent salary. These are all possibilities that will evolve without getting the news and media involved.
#9: I was born and raised in the US and still live there. I went to Kamenitz Mesivtah High School in Boro Park. My Rosh Yeshiva was pretty concerned about my desire to go to Columbia University, and gave me a “klala” which helped me maintain my Yiddishkeit through the 9 years I spent there (this is in the 1970s). The choice to get a PhD was mine, despite being “forced” not to take it.
#10: You are correct. Unfortunately, I didn’t learn the last blatt of Kidusshin until it was too late.
#11: You “beleive”, I know: BS, Applied Physics, Columbia Engineering, MA, MPhil, and PhD in Nonlinear Optics, Columbia Graduate School. I would send you a copy of my diplomas, but you probably wouldn’t believe that either. And, oh by the way, I got a bracha (actually two brachas) from the Bobever Rebbe, Reb Shloimele, ZTz”L, on the completion of my PhD.
My comment on success was regarding ikkur/taffel. I guess you don’t understand that.
(Half of the people on this blog now know who I am. Oh, well.)
All of you who compare chutz laAretz to what goes in in Israel are missing a major difference: Zionism and their shmad.
The gedolim in Israel decided to not have secular subjects to make sure that the Zionists don’t make any inroads into their schools and their impressionable young minds.
This concern is at least as valid today as it was 60 years ago.
This is not a concern outside of Israel, B”H.
reread the history about limudei chol. gedolim were very clear that if it serves a purpose and is done by god fearing people who r truly machshiv tora then they allowed other but when the suggestions come from apokorsim etc then there is no room for discussion
#14 and I am one of the other half…