It would appear the chareidi parties intend sending Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu a clear message of what life will be like with Shas and Yahadut Hatorah in the opposition.
In his statement to the media, MK (Yahadut Hatorah) Uri Maklev cites the complicated realities facing Israel today, from the growing Iranian nuclear threat, the increasing popularity of the PA (Palestinian Authority) in the global community, mounting pressure for the establishment of another Arab nation aside Israel, increasing so-called Arab Spring protests in Arab countries including Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen and Libya and last but not least, the ongoing civil war in Syria, which leaves us wondering how the picture will read when the smoke clears.
On the social economic front Maklev adds hundreds of thousands have taken part in protests against climbing prices and the collapse of the middle class and the national government must cut its budget by tens of billions of NIS. He warns of the major cuts in funding that will deliver an additional blow to those who are barely surviving as is.
Maklev adds that following the general election the president bestowed the mandate to form the coalition on Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and the head of Yisrael Beitenu. It would appear that they would form a broad coalition of left and right, religious and non-religious, to address these pressing issues. Netanyahu did just that, making the announcement that he plans to form as large a coalition as possible to address the issues mentioned earlier.
With the launching of talks Yesh Atid and Bayit HaYehudi, representing a minority 31 of 120 seats made their demands, boycotting entering the coalition alongside chareidim. As a result, the prime minister’s hand is being forced and the coalition will not reflect what he intended.
“Such a coalition will operate as a government within a government, lacking the ability to address these burning issues. The government will be run by persons lacking experience and who are motivated by the hate of others, seeking to impose their will along with the disqualification of the rights of the minority. It will lack governability while placing the future of Israel’s security and economy in danger. Therefore, we call for dissolving the 19th Knesset and moving to general elections within 90 days.”
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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27 Responses
As long as they have no defections, Yesh Atid, Bayit Yehudi and Likud have an absolute majority – and they also have signed up Livni and friends. All they have to do is stay together and they can do whatever they like for the next four years (and they have the votes to amend the “constitution” if they need to).
The key to successful opposition is to build a coalition that might win the next election, and that probably involves the Labor party and the non-zionist Arab parties. The only other “out” is to hope that Lapid and Bennett have a parting of the ways (likely if Lapid is a bit too doveish or excessively anti-Torah).
Petty, petulant and pointless. I’m begining to think that these people really need a reality check. Perhaps some time off from the business of government is just what the doctor ordered.
This is ridiculous. What is Netanyahu supposed to do? He has truly fought until the very last moment to put Shas and Yehedut HaTorah in the coalition but he cannot get more than 60 MKs together for a majority. He tried every which way and is now down to his very last and least favorite option.
Shas and Yehedut HaTorah should have Hakores hatov to Netanyahu for working as hard as he did – really risking everything in order to make sure the orthodox parties are in the coalition.
#3
Our representatives were not elected to help Netanyahu, and not to show hakoras hatov. They were elected for one goal, to keep our boys in yeshiva and out of the army. I don’t know if what they’re doing is the best tactic. The politicians have much more experience than I do in such things. But if they are convinced that this is the way to accomplish that goal then they should do it.
Considering the fact that Bayit Yehudi and Yesh Atid are acting out of hate rather than working to make things better this is the right thing to do!
Guess another election is coming
and maybe this is Hashem’s way to keep obama out of Eretz Yisrael
#5 – Bayit Hayehudi and Yesh Atid arent in the gov’t (yet) so your point isn’t relevant.
#3 – The orthodox parties words in public have been very critical of netanyahu. As if the situation is his fault.
Nobody has been more loyal to shas and yehedut hatorah then netanyahu. when the tal law was up for renewal last year, netanyahu wanted to renew it but nobody would let him, including the supreme court, et al.
#5 – Do you really not understand that many people hold views that are diffent than yours – and that they do so in true good faith? Do you not understand that both Habayit Hayehudi and Yesh Atid are ‘working to make things better’ according to their lights? Do you not understand that wishing charedim to serve with them is not an act of hatred on their part?
#8- but they are the ones making it hard for Bibi to make a coalition
9- no they aren’t. They were presented a plan by the #13 on the Bayit Yehudi list that was not being objected to by the Chareidi Rabbanim. both yesh atid AND Bayit Yehudi ignored it!!
#10 – News to me. Do you have a source?
#9 – Hitler was working to make things better, according to his lights. Both saw/see us as being their “misfortune”.
Apparently the Chareidi parties think that the usual rules of democracy don’t apply to them. They’ve shown a stunning lack of maturity, with an attitude of either we get everything we want or we won’t give you anything at all. Israel is currently not ruled by a Melech with a Sanhedrin; it is a democratic state, whether the Chareidi parties like it or not, and part of democracy is compromise – and, if necessary, serving as a “loyal oposition”. The “sore looser” attitude that Yahadut HaTorah and Shas are showing does them no credit.
If you want to see an example of what a loyal oposition can do, see how Binyamin Netanyahu acted during the Second Lebanon War. He was in opposition at the time – but did not hesitate to do what was right for Eretz Yisrael v’Am Hayoshev Ba anyway. He was, in fact, one of the most effective spokespersons in explaining the war to world media – he did not try to use a national cause in a partisan way. Perhaps that is a lesson the Chareidi parties can learn – “Eizehu chacham? Halomed miKOL adam”.
an Israeli Yid
#12 akuperma – your comment is uncalled for. It is no different from those who stand in Kikar Shabbat calling Israeli soldiers and police – who put their lives on the line to defend them – Nazis. Bayit Yehudi and others have on multiple occasions tried to speak with the Chareidi parties re: how to bridge the gap, but the Chareidi parties have refused to talk to them. Can you truly compare that to someone who wants to kill Jews, simply because they are Jews?
an Israeli Yid
#9 acting in “good faith” and ” ‘working to make things better’ according to their lights” you say? This is the excuse of all reshaim.
Weren’t the Yevsektsia acting in good faith “according to their lights?”
When the zionists assassinated Yaakov DeHaan, when Teddy Kolleck was spying against his fellow Jews for the the British, or when Rabin commanded an attack on the Altalena (murdering rival Revisionists), they too were all “‘working to make things better,” were they not? So too Ariel “the Bulldozer” Sharon, the “great hero” of the ’73 war, when he deprived thousands of Jews of their basic human rights and yanked them from their homes by force of arms during disengagement.
I could go on. And on. And on.
Sorry. Acting in “good faith” and ” ‘working to make things better’ according to their lights” don’t cut it.
We are JEWS. We have only ONE “light”: Torah! Anything else is darkness. If you are working AGAINST Torah then you aren’t making things better, regardless of how sincere you are, you are making things worse.
#14 I belive that akuperma was not making a comparison but rather just pointing out, as was I, that “good faith” and ”‘working to make things better’ according to their lights” is NOT a valid justification for ones actions.
That being said, I agree with you that, at face value, it WOULD be an unfair comparison. The nazis y”sh wanted to kill Jews. The secular want to kill neshamas!
#13 So are you arguing then that drafting Chareidim is a “national cause” comparable to war??? If not, then your comparison is absurd. If yes, then apparently you do not belive TORAH is a national cause. In that case, Israel ceases to be “Jewish state” and has no legitimate claim to exist.
FYI, this is EXACTLY how democracy (or what passes for it in Israel) works. After an election the party with the largest bloc has FOUR WEEKS to form a coalition. Netenyahu failed to do so as that date expired a week ago! At that point the President has the following options: call for new elections; grant the number two party the opportunity to try and form a coalition or; grant the largest party an extra two weeks (the option he chose in this case). Similarly, a minority party MAY call for a disolution of Knesset and new elections (this of course would be put up for a vote).
As Netenyahu has one week left and appears no closer to a forming a coalition, the only prospects then are a coalition c”v led by Yair Lapid or new elections anyway!
Clearly preferring the later over the former, the chareidim acted in a fashion well within their rights under Israeli law.
Regarding that “national cause” the 2nd Lebanon War: it was a national DISASTER! It acheived none — zero, zip, nada, bupkis — of its’ objectives, cost precious national resources in both blood and treasure, exposed all the weaknesses of the nations ground forces, bolstered the confidence and moral of the enemies of the state, wastefully expended whatever goodwill Israel had in the international community (even ARAB countries were behind Israel at the beinning, at least nominally) and made Israel the “bad guy” when the IAF started bombing the crud out of Beirut for no good reason, killing thousands of innocent civilians.
This is your idea of a “national cause”? R”L
# 16 and 17, TorasMosheEmes –
With respect to 16, I was specifically referring to the reference to seeing the Jews (or, per akuperma’s warped analogy, the Chareidim) as a “misfortune”. The allusion to the Nazi statement that “Der Juden zend unzer umgluck”, with the deliberate implication that non-Chareidim hold similar views about Chareidim, is what I said was uncalled for. For that matter, your comment about Nazis going after Jews while the secular want to kill Neshamos is also in poor taste – as anyone who survived the holocaust would say.
As to your point in 18 – there have been numerous situations in Israeli history where the extra two weeks were granted. This is particularly appropriate where it is clear that a government can, in fact, be formed, but the one charged with forming such a government has been taking his time to try to get particular parties into his government. If Netanyahu had, in fact, decided that he did not want to form a government if he could not have the Chareidi parties included, he could have refused the two-week extension. He clearly believes that he can form a government, and the Chareidi parties, having overplayed their hands, are now desperate to torpedo this effort.
As to the function of a loyal oposition – you are correct that the Chareidi parties are “within their rights” to propose any legislation that they choose. What mature individuals realize, thoguh, is that just because someone has a “right” to do something, does not make it wise, or even the right thing to do. With their continued histrionics, these parties are only making themselves look foolish.
As to Lebanon being a national cause – I agree that the war was not well handled. However, Netanyahu saw (correctly) that with the country at war, the best way for him to “serve” was to use his considerable communications talent to present Israel’s case in the court of world public opinion. That he did that, despite his not inconsiderable disagreements with the then-government, is to his credit – and shows how a loyal oposition should operate in times of crisis.
I’ll acknowledge that the issue of drafting Chareidim is not a “national crisis” of the scope of a war. However, the job of an oposition is to work constructively to accomplish their goals – and not to sit and sulk about how they’re right and DARE the rest of the populace not do what THEY want them to do.
an Israeli Yid
#16 – Nu, so according to you the D”L community, it’s rabbis, poskim and rosh yeshivas are worse than Hitler.
Toras Moshe is, indeed, Emess, but whatever it is that you adhere to would seem to be the polar opposite of Torat Moshe, or as close as makes no difference.
Actually the drafting of Chareidim is a crisis that could be more threatening that war. Under several plans, anyone refusing to go will be subject to imprisonment (not merely the loss of the rather modest stipend the government gives yeshiva students), and yeshivos hosting refusers will be fined (meaning money raised abroad will be seized by the government). This extreme plan, which is definitely a feature of both the Lapid and Likud plans, will alienate all the Israeli haredim (including baal ha-battim who would gladly serve in the army, at least if the army accomodating a frum lifestyle), and give them no choice but to ally with the Arabs. That means that there will be a 30 seat anti-zionist block in the kenesset, all drawn from groups with the highest birth rates. It might lead to a coalition of the socialists, Arabs and Hareidim — or it might lead to a return to the plans expressed in the early 20th century of an Islamic Palestine with an autonomous Jewish minority.
A lot is at stake. If the Lapid and Bennett convince the hareidim that the hareidim would be better under the Arabs, or allied with them, the State of Israel as we know it will have no chance of survival as a zionist democratic state.
AnIsraeliYid, a point by point response:
Whether you wish to acknowledge it or not, a large perecentage of the secular (and frankly, some D”L as well — and please note I said “some”) DO see the Chareidim as their misfortune. I will be more than happy to provide you with any number of references proving this point, though all you really neeed to do is peruse the reader postings on JPOST, YNET, HAARETZ, and Arutz Sheva.
Netanyahu wasn’t granted a two week extension simply because he chose not to give up. You make it sound automatic. It is not. The extension is granted, absent a vote by the Knesset to dissolve, soley at the discretion of the President (as NO ONE EVER DECLINES such an extension).
Regarding the “loyal opposition,” setting aside your implication that the Godolei Yisroel or immature, you are right in as much as one may have the “right” to do something but that does not make it wise. While we might debate the Burkian conundrum of the proper role of ANY elected representative in a republic (majority OR opposition, the Chareidi parties in fact acted in a fashion that they felt both represented the interests of the constituency they represent AND the best interests of the state. Just because you disagree doesn’t make them either unwise or immature.
I don’t know where you get your definition of their “role.” The term, originating in 19th century Britain, simply means that while they oppose the policies of the ruling majority, they remain loyal to the CROWN. In a modern context it means that despite their opposition, they are not rebelling against the state. This means they use whatever legal means are available to pursue their interests and their understanding of what is in the best interests of the state. It doesn’t mean cave in or to go along to get along. If they support a policy of the majority (as Bibi did during the war), they are free to support it. Otherwise they are free to oppose it with every legal tool at their disposal. They have ZERO obligation to support the majority “no matter what” especially when the majority utterly disrespects the fundamental rights of the minority, not unlike the D”L community did during disengagement.
Yagel Libi
I said NO SUCH THING and I will thank to NOT put words in my mouth and then insult me for saying them!
While I admit that I disagree DEEPLY with the D”L community on a whole gamut of issues and firmly believe their alliance with a rasha like Yair Lapid is foolish, I would NEVER state or imply such a thing as you falsely accuse of having said.
I suggest you find your glasses and read my post again.
akuperma: So go sit with your Arabs. Maybe that’s where you belong, among the enemies of Israel.
#20, you have lost your mind if you think Chareidim would think they would be better under the Arabs!!! only Neturei Karta and the like think like that.
The thing to do would be to fight for our rights.. maybe if all Chareidim would vote then we would have a chance at making things better. In my opinion all this is coming on because of all the “holy anti-zionists” who are so anti- state that they won’t vote and thereby causing all this tzaros.
chareidirbs:
If all chareidim voted, how many more seats do you think UTJ would have? 2? 3? And do you really think that those who hate us would therefore somehow hate us LESS? They would be wetting themselves in fear and rage if chareidim had MORE power!
to #24: i agree with u all the way, if ALL charedim wud have voted, eida, satmar, toldos ahron, and amnon yitzchak and amsalam wud have not run and thrown out votes was total 3 seats in garbage, then the charedi parties would have a net gain of 25 Seats, it goes per ammount of votes, charedim are 30% of Israeli population, so charedim wud win 25 seats, plus likud 31 is total 55, with tzipi livni 6 seats a total of 61 exactly majority and u can ad another 2 from mofaz to 63 total! the charedim did it to themselfs, no voting, no uniting, they lose power, they lose govt funding, and will be drafted!
TorasMosheEmes – Having worked in Israel for quite a number of years I can say that other than a small minority consisting of militant secularists, the vast majority of Israelis are frustrated with certain behaviors attributed to Chareidim and the Chareidi parties – but do not view Chareidim as a “misfortune”. You are using a broad brush to smear a populace – exactly what Chareidim time and time again accuse others of doing to them.
As to the two-week extension – you are correct that it is not automatic as a matter of law. In practice, though, it is essentially automatic, as the President grants it as a matter of course when it is warranted, as is the case here. Of course Netanyahu did not turn it down – he knows he can, in fact form a coalition if he agreed to terms with Yesh Atid and Bayt Yehudi – terms that, on their face, are not significantly out of line with the policies of the Likud.
As to the role of a loyal opposition – the role, as you note, is to be loyal to the state while actively opposing policies that are contrary to their own core beliefs, and trying, where possible, to influence the government to lessen the impact of such policies. What the role does NOT entail is opposing policies that are either in line with their beliefes, or with respect to which they are neutral, just for the sake of spiting the party in power. The latter behavior is just plain immature, and is exactly what the Chareidi parties are saying they’ll do with respect to oppoosing Yishuvim in Yehuda and Shomron, boycotting products produced there, etc. So yes, I absolutely AM accusing the Chareidi parties of being immature.
I think this discussion has gone on long enough. I know, and clearly disagree, with your positions, and you likely have a good view of mine. I therefore respectfully propose to end it here, and accordingly do not plan to respond further in this thread.
an Israeli Yid