9 Responses

1. Why did they fast in the time of Mordechai, and take up arms in the time of the Hashmoneans?

   Haman’s decree was against all Jews – frum and frei, Reform and Orthodox, Hareidi and Zionists. That was a decree from Shamayim, and the remedy was to do tsuvah – thus we fasted, and still do an Taanis Esthher. Our relief came from nothing we did, but from Ha-Shem.

   The Yavanim had nothing against Jews. They loved Jews. They honored Jews. In fact, most of the war was probably fought against the “Misyavanim” – the Jews who had adopted the modern, cultured ways of the Greeks. It was only the frum fanatics who were persecuted. Someone like Lapid would have received a laurel and an offer to sit in their highest councils. Since we know Ha-Shem would never make a decree against doing mitsvos, we knew this was a problem to be dealt with in a this-worldly manner, not by means of prayer and fasting.

   Funny, when I told this over on an army base, the frum soldiers all smiled, but the officer seemed to think this was a call for treason.

2. In the time of Mordechai we fasted before Esther ha Malkah went before Achashveirosh. On the 14th of Adar, we took up arms against our enemies and defeated them. The reason for Shushan Purim is because we needed another day to finish the battle.

   Also, do we believe of the Chashmonaim fasted and davened before going out to fight?

   We have always had to do both. We fast and daven so that Hashem will give us victory on the battlefield. Even during overt miracles, we have had to do some hishtadlus militarily.

   For example, When the shofarot were blown, the walls of Yericho fell. Yehoshua and the soldiers at that point had to rush in and fight. The fact that the walls fell only made it easier to do so.

   Also, the Yavanim persecuted any basic Jewish observance, even that of Reform Jews, who also do brit milah.
   Even secular Jews in Israel learn Tanach in school, which the Yavanim would have persecuted. Lapid would not have been on the side of the Yavanim, especially since he holds that secular students should learn Gemara in addition to Tanach. The Misyavanim had surgeries to remove signs of brit milah and they did avodah zara.

3. #1: When we reach the level of the Chashmona’im in the time of Chanukah, then we can use their tactics.

   Learn and understand why David Hamelech fought his battles to the end, while Chizkiyahu Hamelech went to sleep and asked Hashem to fight his battles. Then you will understand why – even though your analysis of Purim and Chanukah is spot on – it is not applicable today.

4. Whats if somebody tattletales, that our main objective is, to keep our children and grandchildren out of harms way.

5. They also took up arms in the time of Mordechai.

6. A secular learning of Tanach and Gemara is not learning Torah. It is exactly what the Misyavanim were about.

7. “We fast and daven so that Hashem… we have had to do some hishtadlus militarily.”

   We will, we will fight, and not allow ourselves to be drafted to an institution that looks to assimilate frum yidden.

   “Also, do we believe of the Chashmonaim fasted and davened before going out to fight?”

   (3) הרא”ש על מגילה פרק ראשון – סימן א
   ופירש רבינו תם זמן קהלה לכל היא שהכל מתאספין לתענית אסתר ובאים בני הכפרים לעיירות לומר סליחות ותחנונים לפי שבו נקהלו לעמוד על נפשם והיו צריכים רחמים. וכן מצינו במשה שעשה תענית כשנלחם בעמלק דכתיב ומשה אהרן וחור עלו ראש הגבעה ודרשינן במסכת תענית מכאן לתענית צבור שצריך שלשה

   ספר שמואל א פרק יד
   וְאִישׁ יִשְׂרָאֵל נִגַּשׂ בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא וַיֹּאֶל שָׁאוּל אֶת הָעָם לֵאמֹר אָרוּר הָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר יֹאכַל לֶחֶם עַד הָעֶרֶב וְנִקַּמְתִּי מֵאֹיְבַי וְלֹא טָעַם כָּל הָעָם לָחֶם:

   My guess is you don’t believe learn torah protects the entire country. Guess what that’s a pasuk in the torah too.

8. In the time of purim when they came for our bodies, we davened. In the time of chanuka when they came for our neshama, we fought.

9. mms601- please show where does it say that learning (by itself) protects the entire country.