According to the number two man on the Yesh Atid list MK-elect and probable cabinet minister Rabbi Shai Piron, “the days in which chareidim do not serve in the IDF or national service are over!”
Speaking to Galei Yisrael Radio, Piron stated “I am very very excited today and it’s not a simple matter for me to contemplate the awesome responsibility. We wish to remain accurate and not confused, to remain focused. We received a great responsibility and we must prove ourselves.”
Rabbi Piron was clear, and at this stage, Yesh Atid does not rule out joining a coalition with any party. He quickly added however the chareidim must understand the days of not serving are over. He explains if the chareidim are not going to accept this then they cannot be part of the same coalition. He told Galei Yisrael “The prime minister will have to decide between the classic chareidi position and what we have to offer. This is the situation. We are making this a deal breaker for our inclusion in the coalition”.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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16 Responses
which means that the days of “Draft resistance” will begin.
Instead of saying the army is treff, the medinah is treff, I will have nothing to do with you apikoresim – many anti-zionist hareidim have been rodfei shalom by saying “I’m busy learning Torah, go away”. That was evasion. However saying “I’m busy learning” left them exempt from the army, and avoided a confrontation.
Now they will say “Your medinah has no basis in halacha. Your laws are not laws. Your war against the Benei Yishmael are neither of rashus nor of mitzvah, but are illegal wars of aggression not authorized by Torah.” As they would say in English, “Dem dare’s fightin’ words”. It’s not that wasn’t always the case, but in the past there was no need to be provocative.
The government could say such people have a religious objection to military service and are exempted in order to comply with international human rights norms – and of course they shouldn’t look to the government for funding. But if the government does try to draft them, and there might only be a handful of noisy resistors, it will compromise the enlistment of any other hareidim since no one will want to look like they are attaching a lower priority to Torah out of fear or in order to get money from the non-religious.
There is room for compromise assuming that the anti-hareidim aren’t too pig-headed in their “victory” to realize that in attempting to conscript the hareidi masses they may be biting off more than they can chew.
We’re waiting for the days when a rightous king will decree: “The days of evading Torah learning & observance are over!”…
This was unfortunately brought on by the chareidi leadership. I do not like Yesh Atid & this should never have gone down this way. What frustrates me is that the chareidi parties officially refused to be involved with any committee to build a “new Tal Law.” They thought they were being smart by standing up for what they believe in but instead it left them in a worse position without ability to negotiate.
On another note, I painfully read akuperma’s nonsense comments on the majority of articles. I suppose he has forgotten a good deal of his Jewish history. He regularly presents his idea that the world will support the chareidim and even provide these poor “persecuted” Jews “political assylum.” I wonder – which nation of this world do you expect to save Jews? The Germans? The French? The Spanish? Egyptians, Saudis, Iranians, Swiss, Polish, etc, etc, etc? Oh yes, you’re comfortable in the US & believe they love you, that they’ll protect you. You’re just as confortable & safe as our ancestors throughout the past 2,000 years were in the galut… It’s precisely due to our history that we need to protect ourselves & not rely on the nations to protect us. Certainly I don’t think chareidim are (or will be) persecuted here but that’s all a matter of the person’s perspective. No one’s telling them they can’t learn or do what they want – the country is saying that they don’t want to foot the bill for such a large # of people to learn all day.
As for service in the army OR national CHESED programs (and I really don’t understand why no one here acknowledges the generous offer to allow chareidim to serve in a CHESED program instead of the army – it’s CHESED for Heaven’s sake!!!!)… I don’t believe for a second that asking for these things is considered “persecution.” If you can’t seem to find a correct definition of persecution in the dictionary, I suggest you look into the history books – & the Tanach!!!
Mr. AKuperma: While you wait for the nations of the world to protect you, we’ll continue to build a safe haven for you… we’re waiting for you to join your People when you’re ready… we’ll leave the light on for you.
He has the nerve to call himself a rabbi, but he doesn’t understand the importance of limud hatorah. How sad.
None of the major parties are asking the yeshiva boys to go to the army for three years!! – Aguda is putting that out but its not true at all… what they ARE saying is that if you are NOT REALLY in yeshiva full time THEN you have to go to the army OR community service – Hospital, nursing home, schools etc!!! the army doesnt need nor wants thousands of boys overnite joining!!! its all hype being put out but not true @ all…. You know and I know that MOST boys are not cut out to learn all day… that being said those that ARE NOT learning all day should contribute to society like everyone else!
In response to “While you wait for the nations of the world to protect you, we’ll continue to build a safe haven for you…”
The Jews have never relied on the nations protecting us (remember, the correct translation of nations is “goyim”). We have relied on Ha-Shem. We are still here. Our oppressors are not. We were in Eretz Yisrael before the Arabs, and before the Zionists. And Eretz Yisrael will be our’s when zionism is in the dustbin of history, and when Arabic is an extinct language that once was spoken by a long forgotten culture. We will continue to rely on Torah and Mitsvos, ignoring the tanks and missles, just as our ancestors ignored the susim and rekavim.
#6 If I recall from my bits of Gemorah learning,,,,Rabbi Akiva organized and supported Bar Kochba as he fought against the Romans, while relying on Torah & Mitzvos.
Akuperma: If you’ll pardon me, our ancestors did not just ignore the dangers around them. They formed armies and fought for our existence. Again, go back & read the Tanach some more. The type of war we’re fighting is for pikuach nefesh – that’s NOT the type of war that a frum Jew is allowed to “conscientiously object” to!
The entire point of my post was exactly what you’re saying – the nations of the world will NOT protect you so stop with your rediculous comments that the chareidim will seek or get asylum from the nations of the world… and you say that the ARABS, no less, will provide a safe place to learn in Gaza!?!?!? Wow, that comment from you took the cake.
By the way, while we’re on the topic of reading Jewish history – even our recent gedolim worked for a living in addition to learning – they were shoe makers, tailors, ran a makolet / store, doctors! And our ancestors were mostly shepards… yes, we work for a living and also learn & daven. And, our People thoughout history get very involved with chesed so why all of the sudden do chareidim refuse to join a chesed program if they don’t want to fight?
Who ever said “Limud Torah ” has to stop once one is out of the yeshiva?
Their is yet much more Torah out in the battle field than any four cornered room.
Tha Chareidi world needs to awaken from the illusion of fanaticism that surrounds and block one from truly seeing Godliness.
I’m afraid that we will have “Uriah Haheetea” incidents. Yeshiva boys will be drafted then sent ahead to Gaza, Lebanon at the tip of sword next mini war we have. Their leftist commanders wanting to be rid of two enemies with one order will put Charedi units in peril. There will be Korbonote mark my words. Such is the animosity that I’ve felt while living & learning there as a Bachur in Yeshiva.
RBS says “we’ll continue to build a safe haven for you…we’ll leave the light on for you”. I lived in Jerusalem 7 years & can truthfully say people only look out for themselves. No body left the light out for me. Please no more BS from RBS.
Akuperman it is time to stop the right wing non sense and call a rise a rose
We take and take call the. Israelis names disrespect the government refuse to join in When did we become wimps and not warriors like Moisher or David or Salomon. When did our greatest rabbis never have a job to support there families. Sorry this is a new invention. Of the last 1
200 years
It’s about time !
Best news I’ve heard in a long time.
kollel faker: Moshe and Dovid and Shlomo were all hareidim. Moshe even asked shailohs directly of Ha-Shem (no rabbanut for him). In all fairness, Dovid and Shlomo were military leaders, and while it is possible that the hareidim will take up arms against the hilonim, but unlikely. The rabbanim have opposed violence. While one probably could open fire on Israeli police who are trying to arrest you in a Beis Medrash (this is suggested in the gemara), I doubt any hareidi rabbanim would posken that way. If they try to seize the girls, it might be different since in the 1940s they did posken that one could use lethal force to prevent conscription of women. It is more likely that they would try to humiliate the zionists with civil disobedience and non-violent protests. The real danger for Israel is that some of the Muslims will offer asylum, and the image of Jews and Muslims living together in peace would seriously undermine Israel’s arguments and lead to a single state solution under Islamic leadership.
Are you sure I’m right wing. In a Israeli context, favoring peace and opposing violence is a very left-wing thing (and of course, “right” and “left” refer to French National Assembly during their revolution, and Jews weren’t allowed to vote yet).
The way to proceed is the one that succeeded after the chiloni assault on chinuch in Emanuel. Masses in the streets and activists letting the chilonim know that yehoreig uval yaavor aren’t empty words. And for the threatened bachurim, a carrot and a stick: do what Torah says and you have Hashem, the gedolim and a huge community behind you. Take the zionists bait and you and your families pay the price.
To #2 (jrican2) – sounds like you’re quite hurt by your experience here. Sad to hear. I’ll suggest to you that most of your experience you can blame on yourself. You say “people only look out for themselves” here but that’s not true – and it may actually be projection. Did you watch out for the people here? What did you do specifically besides learning here? Did you do anything to help build the society here by giving of yourself? Did you set up learning programs with those who are not-yet-frum? Did you invite a mesorati family to your Shabbos table with a warm smile? Did you volunteer time with the elderly? Did you help build housing for the poor or work in a soup kitchen? Did you volunteer with Magen David Adom or mishmar ezrachi? Did you work to help absorb a Jewish family from Ethiopia into this very different world of Judaism that they never knew? Did you even bother becoming a citizen & paying taxes or did you just sit & learn while being a stranger in your own Land? Jewish life is not about what someone else owes you, it’s about your obligations to everyone around you.
As for the “people only look out for themselves” and the “No body left the light on for me” — you should think about the myriad people who did exactly that when your eyes were decidedly shut. The soldiers & police who guarded you as you learned & lived here; the municipality that paved the roads, built the infrastructure, lit up the lights around the Kotel, ran buses & trains; the mashgichim & cooks that provided your food; do I need to go on?
What more did you want? Were the Israelis around you supposed to do everything for you just because you were learning Torah here? Look into Mishna Avot – Rabbi Chanina ben Dosa used to say: “Anyone whose good deeds exceed his wisdom, his wisdome will endure; but anyone whose wisdom exceeds his good deeds, his wisdom will not endure.”
The real danger for Israel is that some of the Muslims will offer asylum……OKAY, I got my passport and visa ready.
Who do you suggest? LEBANON is not too bad, got some relatives who used to live there till they left, SYRIA, well not the place it used to be. Maybe JORDAN, except they just reminded me not to bring my tefillin, tallis or shofar with me. SAUDI has lot of empty desert areas for building, not sure if I want to give up my driving license and wear a Burka, EGYPT, now that is a thought, the old shuls are still standing and museum like. LIBYA, well without Ghadafi never know what will happen. MORROCO will still keep the light on, they even have an isolated ghetto, guarded from neighborly Arabs to live in. GAZA, now that is a good choice, can always go back home for Shabbos and Yom Tovim and there are still Jewish homes standing. Could even find a mezuzah among the rubbish? So, which country where you planning on relocating to? France and the UK are almost Muslim, forgot about them!!