This story refers to a recent chasunah held in the Ganei HaDekel Hall in Bnei Brak, a chupah that was conducted very close to shekiyah.
It appears the rabbonim of the Eida Chareidis learned the witnesses did not hear the chosson recite הרי את מקודשת לי… . As a result, the mesader kedushin, HaRav Naftoli Frenkel, a member of the Badatz and head of Kehilas Chassam Sofer Bnei Brak was asked if the words must be recited a second time.
The rav ruled the kedushin was not in place and the chosson would have to repeat his words so the witnesses heard him. The witnesses approached the cheider yichud and knocked on the door, informing the chosson and kallah of the rav’s p’sak. The kallah removed the wedding band and the chosson was m’kadeish her a second time in front of the witnesses, thereby removing any doubt as to the integrity of the chupah.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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16 Responses
So what shekiyah have to do with any part of the story?
This psak is against a b’feirush gemara. There is no obligation to say “Harei At”, it is obvious from the context. The couple was definitely married the first time around.
i’m guessing shkia played a factor since they were in a rush to get it done on time, and the eidim were in a hurry, and didn’t hear the words
As stated, the chupa took place just before shekia and the kesuba would have that date on it, but the harei at was presumably said after shekia, does this not present an issue with the correct date of marriage?
This story is a bit strange.
“It appears the rabbonim of the Eida Chareidis learned the witnesses did not hear the chosson recite הרי את מקודשת לי…”
The rabboniim of the eida in Yerushalyim learned about this, and quickly got word to Bnei Brak while the Chosson Kallah were still in the Yichud room???
I suspect someone is doing a horrible job translating…
Old boy #2: It’s a wonder why you are a checkout counter clerk rather than being the rov and posek of a city such as Bnei Brak. Perhaps you ought to stop scanning the bar codes and take over as town posek. Once you’re at it, you can decree the entire Harei At mishugas be completely abolished from all future Chasunas.
Askuim b’oso inyan! It was probably only lifnim mishuras hadin
Im shocked that they allowed her to return the ring and use it again. I doubt she really meant to give it to him to keep, more likely she gave it on condition of getting it back.
I know of a story where this happened in Yerushalayim, where 1 of the witnesses didnt hear it, the Mesader Kiddushin (on the spot) gave the chosson a pen as a gift, and the chosson did kiddushin, this time with the pen.
This mesader kiddushin didnt allow the returning of the ring, due to the aforementioned reason.
Maybe the sfeka was which day it says in the kesuba. The yichud may have been after shkiya.
This psak must be explained, the Kallah was supposed to give it back as a gift to the Chosson otherwise he is Mekadesh her with her’s not his,
for this other Rabonim said on similar cases the chosson should be mekadesh her with money saying bkesev zu.
In addition to the above remarks: Did the chosen buy the ring back from her? Was the chosen oiver on yichud, etc., when he was alone with his kallah in a locked room?
TO: manishma:
If they would have to have another day of Sheva Brachos if there anniversary date would be different!
Since we are already “dancing on the head of a pin”, what would happen if a child was conceived in the time between the original kiddushin, which was apparently invalid, and the second time the chosson was m’kadeish her in front of the witnesses to make it valid.
#13 – it would make no difference in halacha. It would only be a halachic issue if SOMEONE ELSE was mekadesh her in between.
Kattanhadorah
Why do you insist on mocking Torah, Halacha Gedolim…which you have no comprehension of?
“what would happen if a child was conceived in the time between the original kiddushin”
There are a few ways to do kiddushim. The day of the wedding we try to do all of them to satisfy all doubts. The above is one way. The ring is another. The ketubah is another. etc.d