Kadima MK Yochanan Plesner, who headed the failed Plesner Committee that draft a new chareidi conscription bill rejected by the prime minister told Kikar Shabbat that his opponents have now tried to harm his 82-year-old father.

Portions of the interview below:

KS:

What do you know about the chareidi tzibur?

Plesner

I am a Yerushalmi, living in the capital for 30 years. I studied in a school near the Klal Center near a yeshiva. I am not one who comes from the center of the country and is unfamiliar with chareidim. In my work over recent years in the Knesset Foreign Affairs & Defense Subcommittee, I met with rabbonim and others in our dealings surrounding the Tal Law, in the military and my civilian life so I am not unfamiliar with the chareidi tzibur.

I came with a position of compromise, seeking to reach a mutual understanding. This is because of my familiarly from this community. Had you had asked a younger Plesner a few years ago about permitting entry to the IDF at 22 instead of 18 and not having criminal charges as is the case with others in Israel I would have said no, which by the way is the position of the overwhelming majority of the country.

Even today I am well aware of this but nevertheless I went forward with my plan which includes many compromises and I am the brunt of many insults and slander. While this plan is good for all of us, it is particularly good for chareidim which today suffer from poverty.

I do not claim to know what is being written in the chareidi media but ironically, in the secular press I am attacked for making too many compromises and being too lenient with the chareidim. It got worse during the past two weeks because the prime minister is trying to preserve the current reality which is unacceptable. I support permitting the yeshiva world to continue as is until age 22, that means including funding for avreichim, but at age 22 they must enter the IDF or national service.

Go ask what the average person thinks for he sees that he must enter the IDF at age 18 and he cannot push it off until 22, and not just that, but the government uses their tax funds to pay for their learning while they are not serving. I nevertheless accepted this compromise for I realized it is the correct thing to do.

I do not think that I or the state must compare the value of torah study or IDF service. They are both vital and we should not be compelled to say either or. Both are necessary.

KS

What about personal sanctions?

Plesner

I never spoke about personal sanctions but I did speak of personal responsibility since each individual is responsible to serve so therefore, the responsibility is on the individual level. I did not speak of sanctions but on leniencies. I did not say send them to jail immediately if they do not comply. Look at the positive. I said no jail but only economic penalty and not immediately, but a few years later if they have still not served.

KS

Question incomprehensible

Plesner

I have the utmost respect for the chareidim and their lifestyle. The state permits such a lifestyle, permits and finances delayed service, finances the families receiving supplemental income and I respect the rabbis but the state has rights too. The people’s army is crumbling and we need the manpower. We cannot rely on miracles. There was never a situation in which everyone learns and no one serves. This is unheard of here or anywhere. Some should continue learning and the others must serve.

Please understand that regarding those serving, we may not take for granted that they will continue doing so forever. Actually we hear calls to the contrary as they are unwilling to continue shouldering this burden as they do today.

KS

But what good will it do after all; you too have heard what the rabbis say. They prefer that everyone will sit in prison rather than serve so what is going to be accomplished here.

Plesner

I am very glad that you mention prison since in the media, they are all talking about Plesner and how he wants to imprison chareidim. This is simply not the truth. No one will receive this privilege. I am opposed to this. I spoke about cutting economic aid to this people since that is the state’s right. The state is not about to build a network of kollel prisons. I believe that the cutting economic aid is the way to go and I am not seeking to put anyone in prison. Quite the contrary, I am opposed to this.

Some of the chareidi askanim are benefiting from the system but many families are living in poverty. This represents a major portion of Am Yisrael and we must train them and provide them with a profession, the tools to earn a living for if not, we will all suffer, not just the chareidim.

We must implement a system of gradual change towards achieving this goal. We are permitting a deferral until age 22, paying for studies till then, all towards reaching a solution that benefits everyone. Some of the inductees will come after being mechazeik in yeshiva, others when they are married, and we are doing our best to accept them as chareidim, to permit them to live as chareidim, serve as chareidim, and to leave the IDF as chareidim. No one is seeking to change their lives in any way.

KS

They say you hate chareidim. Tell me what you have to say please?

Plesner

Please, ask anyone and everyone who knows me if I ever showed the slightest hate for chareidim or anyone. It simply is not true. I am trying to spearhead a tikun. Better that they direct the fire against Yochanan Plesner and one wishing to be in the public spotlight and spearhead real change must be capable of taking the blows. At the end of the day, I still feel I am serving the growing number of poor chareidi families who don’t have the means to survive. I am for achdus and assisting them and in no way seeking to harm anyone.

KS

Gafne and others on the other hand feel that your seeking to compel to induct people against their will, the gezeiras shmad as he calls it will have a boomerang effect and not only will you not succeed, but those who have been willing to serve today will no longer do so.

Plesner

We return to what I said earlier. The general 18-year-old population is indeed compelled by law to serve in the IDF. This is true of the general population. One who does not report for duty is imprisoned. This is no game and it happens, without giving him the option of waiting four years. To date, even those who arrived at age 22 and then stated they do not wish to serve were permitted to do so, to continue learning.

So they can continue to besmirch and level attacks against me but better to look on the internet and read what I really stand for and what the new plan entails.

The bottom line, after they could not address the issues, the facts, and the plan, they turned the battle against me and my 82-year-old father, who raised a wonderful family, a traditional family. I understand that since I am trying to implement change they will attack me but I remain undeterred.

(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)