After calls by Maran HaGaon HaRav Ovadia Yosef Shlita to cancel this year’s bein hazmanim and calls to add Avinu Malkeinu to tefilos by Rav Yosef and the Eida Chareidis, the battle against the planned conscription of tens of thousands of avreichim in Eretz Yisrael moves to the United States.
According to a Chadrei Chareidim report, on Tuesday evening Israel time, Eida Chareidis Ravaad HaGaon HaRav Moshe Sternbuch Shlita telephoned the Satmar Rebbe of Williamsburg, Rav Zalman Leib Teitlebaum Shlita. Eida secretary Rav Yaakov Riter who made the call was also on the line.
Rav Sternbuch briefed the rebbe as to the events in Eretz HaKodesh regarding ongoing efforts to draft avreichim. Rav Sternbuch is quoted as saying “It appears the gezeira will happen and you must protest and take action to stop this using all your strength”.
The three spoke towards formulating a plan as how best make the voice of protest audible. At some point, Lakewood Rosh Yeshiva HaRav Malkiel Kotler joined the conversation.
The decision was made to join forces for a unified fight including chareidim in the United States and Eretz Yisrael. This will include statements from rabbonim and roshei yeshiva shlita.
Announcements are expected in the coming days regarding tefilla rallies and other measures.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
Join the official YWN WhatsApp status
19 Responses
When the Israeli yeshivos are shut down, large numbers of Israelis will come to America. Indeed, they can probably request assylum as political refugees since religious persecution is usually a basis for granting assylum requests.
Akuperma – “Religious persecution”?! Other countries, such as Denmark, Norway and Switzerland, have mandatory drafts as well (with far less justification). Do you see the US granting Danish, Norwegian and Swiss draft-dodgers asylum for religious persecution?
Moreover, the Israeli government, which is bending over backwards to accommodate the Charedi bochurs, is offering a National Service alternative for those who wish. Not only will the bochurs be able to serve in chessed organizations, many will be able to serve in Charedi chessed organizations such as Zak”a, Hatzala and Yad Sarah.
If any Jew has the mind-boggling chutzpah to claim that being required to do chessed (while his brethren risk their lives in the army) is “religious persecution”, then may his wish be granted. Few in E”Y will shed a tear over his departure.
But I take heart in my conviction that very few (if any) Jews, even amongst the members of NK, are so lost in sinat yisrael as to raise such a claim.
Get ready for fundraising and grants to new immigrants (which is unlikely will happen – u know the cost of ELAL tickets for a family????!!)for tuition assistance, housing subsidies, vocational training, etc.
Interesting those that come here will end up going for vocational training and begin working (to pay back the loans of plane tickets, a lift with furniture & clothes).
Denmark, Norway and Switzerland do NOT have mandatory drafts.
I would like to know why the chareidi community if fighting the establishment and not coming up with alternatives. Hesder yeshivot are a wonderful way for from boys to learn and do there share in the army. And they do it in segregated divisions. Why is the torah of charedim any mor important than the torah of the datei liumi. If you don’t want to go into the army the is sherut leumi. If you take from the government in anyway you should then pay your fair share. These solutions will still keep boys learning and enhance shalom amongst klal yisrael.
Well, maybe this crisis is really a blessing in disguize.
As Rahm Emanuel famously declared: “You must never let a crisis go to waste!”
Perhaps this crisis will finally force the warring factions within our Orthodox.hasidic community to finally come to their senses and unite.
Then, we will have the merit to deserve Siyata Dishmayo and hatzlochho in our efforts.
Considering that part of the refugee process in the US is signing an oath that the applicant will bear arms on behalf of the country if necessary, and there being virtually no chance that they’d qualify as conscientious objectors (what with their not being opposed to war or other people fighting them on their behalf) there’s basically zero chance of anyone being granted asylum for avoiding the Israeli draft.
The Ikkur problem is that the Chareidim strongly feel that the Chilonim are trying to force them to lose their frumkeit. They’re convinced of it, and they are very, very afraid of it. The army hasn’t exactly done a great job allaying their fears, with the whole kol isha fiasco.
The Rabbonim have been saying this for years – the chilonim are anti-frum and anti-frumkeit. They are out to make us Chilonim. So this is such a devastatingly fearful situation for the Chareidim now. Until the Chilonim prove otherwise, the Rabbonim will continue very strongly with this message, and the army will be seen as a real and dangerous threat to Yiddishkeit.
I spoke with my very Chareidi neighbor about this – she is convinced the Chilonim want to make us Chilonim, she can’t see any view other than this. She has teenage boys, she’s devastated.
In my opinion – which I tried to explain to her, but which she unfortunately could not hear – the Chilonim do not want us to be Chilonim, they want us to be mentschin. What makes them angry is the extremism, when Chareidim do not have Derech Eretz in the name of being frum. They want Chareidi men to answer an old woman who asks a question on the bus, not ignore her. They want the chareidim to contribute, to participate, to concern themselves with the needs of greater society. Maybe when the medinah first started they wanted everyone Chilonim, in my opinion, I don’t think that’s true anymore.
But Chareidim are too scared to hear the other side.
The other very important point is that the Chareidim do not have a framework for flourishing Torah life outside of the Kollel structure. Thus leaving Kollel can mean to them leaving Yiddishkeit. American communities are set up with support structures and organizations that bring the Yidden together and keep them close to Torah throughout their week of work in secular society. Chareidim have nothing aside from kollel.
Why do simple minded people think they know better then the great leaders of this and past generations.
Torah past be learnt purley with no other influnces.
The Dor Hamidbor prior to going into Erez Yisroel were free from any obligation besides learning and serving Hashem.
Every yid must build his life with these ideals. Pure Torah and only after that go out and work.
Shalom is not peace when it goes against Daas Torah.
Look in this weeks Sedrad ‘Pinchs was the Ish Sholam, after uphelding Hashem wish.
So too it is clear that the Isreali Govermant inteniton is to uproot Torah – is it with them that we want to make peace?!
Conscription of religious minorities without accomodation of their religious practices is generally considered to be persecution, and has been for some time.
Since much of the western world would not be displeased if they could find an excuse to be unfriendly towards Israel, my guess is many countries will be anxious to let in hareidi refugees. The spectacle of Jews fleeing Israel due to being persecuted for being “too” Jewish will seriously undermine support for Israel.
Important factors to look for to see which way the wind is blowing: 1) will non-zionist (i.e. ones who don’t accept government money) yeshiovs be affected; 2) will their be any sanctions beyond the government not funding non-veteran yeshiva students; 3) to what extent will yeshiva students be accomodated in the army; 4) will soldiers who refuse to follow orders be imprisoned or merely discharged; 5) will the hareidi response include civil disobedience and sabotage
It could all “blow away” or it could turn into a storm that will endanger the continued existence of Medinat Yisrael.
choppy, I don’t know about Norway and Denmark, but Switzerland absolutely does have a mandatory draft. Ask any Swiss citizen you know.
And Yagel Libi, just because the Swiss, Norwegian and Danish governments don’t practice religious persecution doesn’t mean that Israel also doesn’t. I would think that yeshivaleit would have a case.
1. Chareidim are not “afraid” of the army’s bad influence- they are sure of it. The army does not facilitate the Chareidi soldier’s religous practice, and even when it claims to, it is lying and contemptuously misleading.
2. Gedolei Yisrael want boys of that age to study full time- not Hesder, and not Sheirut Leumi. Doing chesed is not their vocation, and also not needed. It is just an infantile idea to calm the annoyed Israelis.
3. RachelH: your neighbor is unfortunately right. You may be right about yourself and some private friends, but the political Chilonim and press- who are pulling the strings and not the silent majority, are trying to affect the Chareidi lifestyle to be more like their own. And your statement that they want the Chareidim to be “mentchen” is
wrong on mant levels. The average Chareidi is a great “mentch”. Is the average irreligious Israeli considered a “mentch”? Ha!
Akuperma
Most of what you wrote there is ridiculous nonsense (Countries would admit Chareidi refugees just to undermine Israel? You seriously think that? Based on what?) but at least within the realm of opinion. On the other hand, I’m going to bet you can’t find a single example of a grant of asylum in the US based on lack of accommodation for religious belief. In this instance the thing you claim to be generally considered true, is just totally false.
The Dor Hamidbor prior to going into Erez Yisroel were free from any obligation besides learning and serving Hashem.—Guess that was the reason Hakadosh Baruch who wanted Klal Yisroel in Eretz Yisroel and live the life of an oved hashem with learning, working and chesed.
wonder why only the eidah kicking up a storm ? why?,the eidah people never even applied for deferment they always went for ptur they can still do that ?well, this is it, only the edah has got what to lose this law is not about draft its about funding the yeshivos never got funding since they didnt serve now they will get equal funding like every other university ,no bocurim will be drafted they are discussing 23yrs usually married w/ kids (isrealis get married slightly younger20-21yrs)which means no combat just basic training and reserves 6mos on average those work minded avreichim will get training and wont return to yeshiva only the real serious will return with full benefits not to bad a deal only the eidah which does not take funding has got what to lose
It is a total waste of time arguing with the so-called chareidi side on this item, because most were brain- washed. But it is useful to point out one little thing: until the last forty -fifty years, there NEVER was such a situation where tens of thousands of people decide to do nothing and use the pretext of learning Torah. There were always individuals who learned but never awhole zibbur- especially as they have put the burden of feeding them on other people’s shoulders. Let us see what will happen if the Israeli government stops all payments and does NOT insist on army service. I bet you that 80 percent of avreichim will leave to lead a normal life.
Has smart Alec said something not exactly right?
look up cantonists trying to wholesale force the charedim to change their standard of dveikut is cantonism
The fact is the ultra orthodox the bnei tayreh ( with the highest birth rate) is in a virtual and literal imperial city like that of china “only the righteous shall pass” and most of chilonim and alot of pseudo dati’im do not come into contact with them at all! Let alone recieve hAshpa’eh influence or chinuch
What would happen if the staunchly religious had greater access to broader swaths and waves in society could this not be illuminating for the people who know basically nothing?
Has the charedim and ehrlichkeit been corked?
Unfairly to g-d and his tayreh
Soo your both right?
Whos more right
RachelH as a outsider I had the same opinion as you. That was until I satrted reading Ynet Haaretz and Jpost. The articals are terrible and the comments even worse. I suggest you take a look and then rethink what the chilonil think of Chareidim