Yahadut HaTorah MKs are currently of the opinion that breaking away from the coalition government would not be a wise move since doing so would simply be “giving a prize to Kadima”.
Cabinet Secretary Tzvi Hauser on Monday morning, told Israel Radio’s Reshet Bet that while he cannot say what exactly will be the final draft law impacting the chareidi tzibur, what he can say for certainty is that what existed over the past 64 years will no longer be the reality and the chareidi community must come to terms with the simple fact that there must be an increase in the number of people sharing the national burden. Hauser quoted Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu as saying the injustice must be corrected, and it will, and there will be a gradual increase in the number of chareidim taking part in this national burden.
Ladaat.net quotes a “senior official in Yahadut HaTorah” who spoke on the condition of anonymity as saying that from Kadima’s perspective, the party has to justify its entry into the coalition and its goal is to remain while ousting the chareidim and the party members are now of the opinion that leaving the coalition over the chareidi draft issue would simply reward Kadima.
“We will do just the opposite. We will not leave the government” the source is quoted as saying, explaining the plan is to remain and make Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s life miserable. Simultaneously, they will begin negotiating with opposition leader (Labor) Shelly Yacimovich to evaluate possibly backing a Labor-led coalition in the next government.
The source is quoted as adding “Bibi will pay a high price. He who harms our children and our yeshivos will pay, here and now, and at the end of the day, he will pay the price”.
When asked what they will do if the prime minister decides to oust the chareidim from Yahadut HaTorah, the source feels the prime minister would not have an easy time doing this. The source adds that Yacimovich’s silence of late is quite obvious, and she is paying a heavy political price for opting to remain silence, but for Yahadut HaTorah this is a signal that they may have a viable partner in the new Labor party leader.
The source concludes that despite the opinion of MKs at present, it is entirely possible that the party’s gedolim will not agree and order them to leave the coalition. Should this be the case that is exactly what will happen.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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18 Responses
At issue isn’t Hareidi support for this or that coalition, but Hareidi support for zionism, and the continuation of the medinah in its current form. If the zionists are sucessful if convincing the Hareidim that they would be better off under Islamic rule, then the mainstream of Hareidim rabbanim support (and in practice, take over) Neturei Karta, and we are talking about having an autonomous Jewish community rather than a sovereign state. Indeed, if the Arabs agree that Jews can live anywhere in Eretz Yisrael as long as they pay for the land, they can transform the current “clash of civilizations” into a real estate dispute.
The zionists believe they can “break” the Hareidi community, but unless they are careful, it is them who are likely to end up living in New York, and zionism to be permanently compared by Jewish histography to the Misyavanim and the Sabbateans as deviant movements that failed horribly.
You are very confused….Zionism is not Bibi or Kadima it is the people who care and defend the country and they are not the ones speaking out to draft chareidim, its the “fake” zionist such as Bibi and Kadima.
As much as i hate to speak ill of any and all chareidim… how long is this fight going to last? Honestly if they dont like the laws of the land, which is you GO to the army, then leave Israel. They are being quite accommodating, they say that some talmidei chachamim should stay learning in Yeshiva, but for the most part everyone needs to pay their dues. Those sitting learning in Kollel, taking enormous amounts of money from the ISRAELI government, have no problem accepting the free handouts while thousands of young boys and girls are fighting to keep THEM safe. I would not even classify myself as a zionist, but enough is enough.
#2- Once you define Likud, Kadimah and Labor as “fake” zionists, you no longer have a zionist majority in Eretz Yisrael. What you have left is an occupation government run by elite Euro-American ultra-secularists, ruling over a mixture of Orthodox Jews and non-Ashkenazi Jews (who are mostly at least borderline Orthodox).
The conscription issue will force the Hareidi rabbanim to reassert their leadership role, which they have been avoiding since De Haan was shot 90 years ago. If they negotiate a framework for Orthodox Jews to live anywhere in Eretz Yisrael with peace and security, they will be in a position to surplant the zionists elite, and their dream of a homeland where Jews can live free of the yoke of Torah goes to the dustbin of history.
#3 What law of which land are you talking about?
This is not a fight about the law of the land, do you know 60% of people supposed to go to the army don’t show up?
Also we need Torah in the world, and it will help them, so how can they make a law like this, it doesn’t make sense, but it doesn’t have to make sense, since this is a battle against frumer yidden.
This is a fight against frumer yidden and we have to stand up to it
about the mks not resigning, I think that’s a big mistake, because they have to send a message loud and clear, and that will only happen by resigning! [all other ways are a joke]
#1:
I think it is an excellent idea. Chareidim should start a new movement called the EYLO, or Eretz Yisroel Liberation organization. They should petition the UN for status as a separate state which has ancestral ties to the land as well as practising the ancestral way of life that comes with it. They should demand Jerusalem, Bnei Brak, Beitar, Kiryat Sefer, Tzfas and Chevron as their main cities and demand contiguous territory for starters, although the main objective is to redeem the whole land for Torah.
REALLY number 3. The persons learning in Kollel in Eretz Yisrael bring panasa to all Eretz Yisrael. Let the charedi go lear chutz l’eretz and the medina would collapse immediately
MorahRach Yes, enough is enough. lets forget about the past hundred plus years of history where that same army in whichthey ant the the Chareidim to serve blew up a ship filled with Jews. Lets forget how the leaders of Israel turned their backs on over 1 million Jews who could have been saved from the Nazi War Machine. lets forget about the Yishuv Hayashan who were getting along quite well until the Dastardly Zionists decided that they were going to take over and spit in the face of all Israels citizens because they wanted their own state. Lets ignore EVERY single gadol who spent sleepless nights fighting the exact issue we are discussing now. Enough is Enough. That was then and this is now clearly we must realize that today the society in Israel is much more accepting then they ever were of Judaism and its values. The Chareidim should join the army whose whole purpose is to Spiritually cleanse them of anything decent (I’m sure you know a story of someone who went to the Israeli Army and stayed very frum but the rule is quite the opposite.) Why cant we see through their guise. Its not enough that they have stripped themselves and their country of any semblance of Judaism they need to do it to the chareidim as well because as Kahane stated that through democratic means (chareidim) could become so powerful that at some time the secularists will lose their tight hold on their country and they are making the issue of army service that has many different way to be worked out to create a rift amongst the Jews in Israel.
To #3 MorahRach: I beg to differ with you, but I think you are sorely mistaken. Those who should leave the country if they are unhappy with the current situation are the chilonim. I am haredi AND a military OFFICER, and my son is haredi and is a weapons specialist in the army. We serve because circumstances presented themselves that we needed to. But we also learn as much as we can, too.
The obligation to learn Torah and live according to its tenets is incumbent upon every Jew. Whereas the obligation to serve in the military is only incumbent upon Jewish males age 20 – 60, and only those who are shomrei Torah u’mitzvos. Those who need to “pay their dues” are all the Jews. All Jews need to be osek b’Torah. To define civic obligations as military service, and exclude Torah study is an absolute falsehood.
As long as the military is adamantly secular, and not run according to da’as Torah, you cannot expect the Gedolei Yisrael to sanction the en masse conscription of the yeshiva yungerleit. If all Jews were learning as much as possible — 3, 2, even 1 sedarim a day, even just an hour (each according to his individual circumstance), Klal Yisrael would look immeasurably different.
Who is not living up to their obligations as Jews? The guys sitting in learning, or the ones doing aveiros in the discos on Friday night? Who is more responsible for the suffering of the sword? The bnai Torah involved in learning and propounding hilchos Shabbos, or the people who drive through frum neighborhoods on Shabbos honking their horns to stick it to the haredim? Who are vilifying the Name of Heaven? The people importing and serving pork, or the people learning hilchos kashrus, kashering kitchens, etc.?
Who has to change their ways more to be living consistent with the ways of HaKadosh Baruch Hu? The haredim sitting and learning, or the chilonim who attack them for doing that, and not going into a freier army?
When a chiloni protestor hold up a placard, and scream “We are not suckers!”, you know what? Yes, that’s exactly what such a person is: a sucker for being an ignoramus and not opening his mind to learning about his roots. Such a person derides the bnai Torah for being devoted Torah Jews (which is the essence of Jewish existence), and utterly ignores efforts to get him to open his mind to wisdom of HaShem. There is so much available today in every language, at Jewish book stores, on the internet, at seminars. Nowadays you have to actively seek to avoid learning about our Mesorah (especially in Israel). Willful and aggressive ignorance is the lot of a sucker.
Eretz Yisrael is promised to us on condition of living according to Torah and mitzvos, not on condition of serving in the Army.
RabbiRabin, the demographics in Israel indicate that the chareidim will soon become a hefty minority after which they will become the majority. The Chareidim need to grow up and start taking on additional responsibilities such as becoming self-sufficient and shouldering the defense burden with the rest of the country. Rashi worked. So did Rambam, Ramban, and most of other Rishonim, as well as the Tannaim and Amoraim. If they could do it, today’s Chareidim also can do it. Besides, while we always had partnerships of the Issachar-Zevulun type from the beginning of our national history, in all cases the Issachars were supported willingly by their working partners. This is not the case in Eretz Israel. The majority of the people do not want to support the Chareidim. Chareidim were able to obtain financial support from the state through political pressure. At this point, political pressure will not work because it’s not up to this or that party, or this or that politician. Charedi draft and further government support became a political issue which will determine the results of the next elections. Every Israeli politician is aware of it except for the Charedi politicians who still think pressure on Netanyahu and old political machinations will tilt the balance in their favor.
#6-contingous land means ruling goyim and the goyim tend not to like that — the way we survived for the past few millenea is by having control over our own homes and shuls and institutions and leave it to the goyim to fight their wars without us — the traditional Jewish approach was to give up ruling others and avoid seeming to threaten us, while quietly ruling ourselves. It should be noted that the most serious failure in the history of the golus came at a time when almost none of the Jews had autonomy (in Europe) and instead were participating in the goyim’s political system and often putting outselves in a position as their rulers (with several countries including France, Germany and the Soviet Union having Jews in senior political positions – needless to say, not in accordance with rabbincal opinion). While America is probably different, in most countries, including all Islamic countries, trying to rule the goyim guarantees a war.
So skip the territorial integrity. Insist on a right to have be armed privately for self-defense (but not to flaunt it in their faces), and insist on a right to live anywhere in Eretz Yisrael (even if it requires paying Arabs for land we originally owned and was stolen from us in the past).
The preposterous claims of the Israeli Chareidim’s bakers are mind-bogling. Let me ask you this: which country in the world would put up with a significant part of the population saying:”we’won’t work, we won’t serve in the army, support us for live in kollel”???
to Number 3: They should leave EY????
A News flash for you: the chareidim were there BEFORE zionism, long before Zionism. When zionism reared it’s ugly head in the world, they opposed it with every breath in their body, sometimes even with their lives (e.g. Jacob DeHaan). They opposed zionism before the UN, petitoning against the creation of a “Jewish” state. When it was evident that the UN would in fact create such a state, they petitioned for seperate status, not wanting to be citizens of such a state.
In other words, they were there first. They had lived there for centuries in relative peace with their Arab neighbors, dedicating their lives to the pursuit of Torah. They didn’t want a new state to be created or to have anything to do with it if it was. At every stage the zionists imposed their will upon them and the land. Telling them to leave is sort of like telling Native Americans “hey, if you don’t like the US, you should just leave.”
Idiocy.
to Number 6:
They already tried this in 1947 (see Rav Dushinsky) and were rebuffed. The zionists would not then and will NEVER allow a seperate Jewish voice or existence in EY. They will always seek to impose their will, their voice on anyone who dares defy them.
The Satmar Rebbe was right: in their desire to create a “new Jew” the zionists would one day make it impossible for Torah Jews to live in EY. Even those who adamantly disagreed with Reb Yoelish must now agree that that day is fast approaching.
Lo aleinu, but if this should happen (as number 3 suggests) that Torah Jews are driven from EY, no army, no matter how big, no matter how “advanced,” will protect Jews from the decree that would result R”L
wow, having trouble respecting the chareidi parties who will play politics like this. they will take part in the government that they despise just so they can stick it to a rival party. the labor party and all of the left wing parties are so much more anti chareidi than the likud. but that doesn’t seem to bother them as long as their little pet projects and yeshivas get money from the government. they don’t even care if the government gives away our land (really Hashem’s land) as long as they can pad their pockets. this is NOT what being frum is about.
There is nothing wrong with them not joining the army, but they should have to do some kind of service to the country. volunteer in a hospital/school..The problem is most of them pay no taxes and take 60% of the social budget.
#15, stop pretending to be blind and deaf. How many times do you have to be told that they are doing “some kind of service to the country”? Their learning is national service, of far greater importance than working in a hospital, or whatever they would be doing in the IDF. Do you deny that without their learning the country would fall? Do you not believe that אם ה׳ לא ישמר עיר שוא שקד שומר ? If you are Orthodox then you have to believe that. So why do you prate about doing “some kind of service”?
I think it’s very clear to some of us the importance of studying Torah. But even for those of us who do support it, we don’t see a reason for people who are not learning not to go to the army. But please explain how a person who is raised secular should appreciate the value of studying Torah. Now that a majority of people of draft age are religious, how do you continue to promote not serving? This is the dilemma. Many of us are watching the transition of a group from a small minority to a leadership role. So far the Chareidim have not adjusted to their new role.
#16, um, they could learn with the patients and cheer them up..