10 Responses

1. Your use of the word Gezeira is misplaced. All Israeli youth are drafted to defend the country that protects them. Pacifism is not an halachic precept, so why should one segment of the population not do their duty?
   I know many frum jews that served in the Israeli army and they continued to be strong in their Yiddishkeit during and after their stint. There can be no peace between countrymen when there are different rules for different people.

2. If Israel had a Jewish army, one in which violations of Shabbos, kashrus, etc. (“etc.” includes things we can’t talk about in YWN) were unthinkable, and in which Torah and Mitsvos were respected rather than tolerated (which by definition means putting up with what you hate) – then the only issue would be is the Arab-Israeli conflict a legitimate war (one faction says it has to do with the Arabs wanting to kill the Jews and uproot Yiddishkeit – the other sides says it it a dispute of real estate and killing people over Dinei Mamonos is obscene).

   There can be no peace in Eretz Yisrael if they have a government that sees irradication of Torah and Mitsvos as a national priority. It appears that “push” has come to “shove”, and most Hareidim will not give up Torah and must now be prepared to “shove” back, even if that results in looking for alternatives to a secular zionist state in Eretz Yisrael.

3. apukerma continues with his irrational, anti-jewish diatribes on this website. Rather than joining all those who have worked incessantly to improve the Yiddishkeit level of all israelis- and, thank G-d, being successful, he continues to wage his sinas chinom war on all jews, thereby endangering- once again- six million jews. Disgraceful.

4. The chatbacks are so silly and full of ignorance… i have tons of FRUM friends in the army… no one was mechalel shab or has eaten trief… those that server in the Hesder or Chariedi units are treated with full respect of their beliefs…
   the concept of not going makes no sense….. NO one USA OR Israel wants to pay taxes… but u do….
   No ONE wants to have/pay insurance but you have it because you need it…
   going to the army is just like paying taxes when living in israel- NO one is forcing ANYONE to live here…if you dont like the rules you are welcome to go anywhere you wish…but if you do want to live here you need to do army- end of story… those that say they are learning and defending EY – they are right – they are – HOWEVER both can be done — LEARN and ARMY- the army is willing and will make units under their supervision that give the liberty to server god while given the privilege of serving our amazing country

5. #3 rabbiofberlin – unless you are a Reform rabbi, I do not see any reason for you to object to akuperma’s statements. He does not say anything that falls outside the hashkafas that the Chareidi have always consistently had and have towards this secular government.

   #1 The law until now has been that those that learn in Yeshiva have a deferment. The fact that they want to change the law in no way affects the legality of what has been until now. In other words, the obligation for all to server w/o deferment that you insinuate is false. Those that receive a deferment have been acting within the law. There is no reason for this law to change other than a political ploy to gain power in the government and also to pacify the chilonim/mizrachi who are jealous of those that receive a deferment. Assuming that you are religious, you must understand that if the Gedolim are stating that this is a horrible attack on Torah and Yiddishkeit, then contradicting them is comparable to objecting to Mordechai’s decree not to go to Achashverosh’s party. Not I good idea!

6. I for one think that akumperman is right on this matter.

7. #1 — There are no “different rules for different people”. The exemption from army service for those dedicating their lives to Torah has been in place since the beginning of the state because even those anti-frum early Zionist understood on a certain level that Torah study is just as important for the continuity of the Jewish people as an army. No segment has different rules — Chareidim who are not exclusively learning are required to go to the army, and a non-Chareidi who dedicates himself to Torah learning can receive the same exemption. There are different roles in the defense of our country, and those learning Torah are also performing a vital service for the safety of this country.

8. #2
   Akuperma, happenes to be right on this issue (not the war on arabs). We (chareidim) are not the one who started this war, and it is a war on chareidim. Don’t fool yourself, our Gedolim are not fools, and they said it’s a Milachomo on the torah.

   So has nothing to do with what Akuperma or any Joe Shmoe says, its what our Gedolim said and continue saying.

   Rabbi of Berlin which side are u on, the Chareidim or the Anti Chareidim (aka. In berlin, reform jews, Haskola)???

9. When America still had the draft, deferments were given to theological students and nobody seemed to mind. Why can’t the Israeli’s do the same thing? Why must the status quo be changed? This is clearly a case of anti-Torahism. They can’t stand us, we haven’t become extinct like they thought we would, so they’re trying to ruin us. Their motto seems to be ‘If you can’t beat ’em, shmad ’em”.

10. i really don’t understand what people don’t get yes initially when the state was started Ben-Gurion gave a couple hundred talmidim who where sitting in yeshivos exemption and now the charedi tzibur thinks they are all entitled to this why in the world is that the exemptions where only intended for the serious people who where sitting and learning are you trying to say that of the thousand of people in israel only a few people where charedi? seriously that is wrong not everyone is cut out for sitting an learning and its high time they share the burden of protecting themselves and everyone else.