Kol Chai Radio reported on Monday morning, that there will be no official participation of rabbonim or the recitation of tehillim at the funeral of Israel’s seventh prime minister, Yitzchak Shamir.
The body of the prime minister, who died on shabbos, will lay in state in the Knesset Plaza on Monday and the state funeral in Mount Herzl Military Cemetery will get underway at 18:00.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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24 Responses
He was never frum when in government or the military and the family doesn’t want to change his hashkafah now. He was a great leader of EY and among the last of a generation who secured the land for all of us to have today. I’m sure he will get his chelek of olam haboah in his own way. The desire of the family for a private funeral should be respected.
Isn’t that sad? And he’ll be lying there and wishing there was just one kaddish…
Can some one please tell me what “In his own way means”. You are so so sure that he will get his chelek in Olam Haboah. I didn’t know that Hashem posts on Yeshivah world. He was a Poshe Yisroel, then that’s what he is. If he was a good poshe Yisroel then that’s what he is.
A Story is told from one of the Tzedikim from the previous generation, I think it was Reb Ben Zion of Bobov ZT”L HY”D a German Yid once complained to him, that the Chasidem & the Yiden from Poland when it comes to Yishishkeit they are very frum and erlich, honest etc… But when it comes to worldly things like dealing business etc.. they are not so honest. But us in Germany, when it comes to yidishkeit we are taka not so erlich, maybe we don’t daven, or dont keep shabbos, kosher etc.. but we are so Punktlich, we deal so nice with every one we are so honest etc… We don’t fool people.
So the Bobover Rebbe Zt”L answered him. Emes Emes, Mir zenen Nebech Shlecta Yidan, Oba ir zent feina goyim.
We are unfortunately bad yiden, but you are nebech good goyim.
A true zionist and a true reflection of the zionist state.
Someone who is moser nefesh on behalf of EY and saving the lives of thousands of yidden will get his chelek of oahm haboh even if some think he lived and died like a goy…..its not for us to decide and each of us can project what we think/hope will be his fate…I prefer to be positive
Due to the massive Sinat Yisrael I find in this website I rarely post a comment but in honor of the memory of Yitzchak Shamir z”l I must post a mechaah – anyone can watch his levaya online (or on tv, for those who have one) and see with their own eyes and hear with their own ears that the levaya is standard orthodox. Shame on all of you.
3. Great story. I will check with (real) Bobover relative as to its emes keit and then use it.
Just saw the funeral. Chazan rashi or Tzahal read tehilim and Chief Rav of Tzahal offered special prayer.
I hope that Shamir family will take to the Beit Din for Lashon haRaa ve dibah. At least offer an apology!
Everyone is talking and commenting about things the do not know and cannot know; what he will be thinking, what his olam haba is etc. He was a man who lost his entire family in the Holocaust, who fought for his Jewish brothers against enemies of our people, who stood up for our people, who was proud to be a Jew. I don’t understand how anyone commenting on here knows how he will be judged in Olam HaEmes. We can’t know and we should not speculate. We should wish him the best.
shem rashaim yirkav
#3, “in his own way” means that perhaps he fulfilled his tafkid in this World. Perhaps he performed beautiful deeds and acts of tzedaka. Perhaps his standing as a proud jew in the face of World pressure was a great Kidussh Hshem that resonated in Shamayim. Perhaps when he lost his family to the Nazis he was affected in ways we cannot understand (BH). Perhaps we have no idea whohe was. I wish him the best in Shamayim. I want him to be judged a tzadik. do you R”L want something else?:
The story you have told was saidin a particluar time, place, and situation to a particular person. It is dangerous and wrong to post in a public place to prove some general klal taht you do not know it would be applied to by the tzadik who said it, and posting it is possibly a chilul Hashem.
“his chelek in olam haba in his own way”
means that just as in this world he was separated from the Jewish tradition and went his own way away from the true klal Yisrael – in the other world, for his contribution to the State, he will avoid geihinom, and get a nice air-conditioned room that is sealed from the outside, and look at himself in the mirror every day to eternity, and will be allowd to look down from there into thsi world when Mashiach arrives and brings a different type of “medinas Yisrael” to us forever.
Yagel Libi – You are so right! This site and the commenters are so full of sinas chinam.
The sad fact is that some people think they are so frum that it gives them the right to say loshon hara about others. Why does someone think they have the right to pass judgement on someone else? You think that you have the right to say loshon hara and insult someone who “wasn’t as religious as you”!?!?! He is a Jew who has just passed away – for Heaven’s sake – have some decency! The chutzpah that many have to insult others is just so blatant. It makes me embarrased to read some of these comments!
why should a rabbi say kaddish for him, it is for his children to say it.
lazerc-the most obtuse comment yet.it is customary to say kaddish for soemoen else- whether family or otherwise. the children-if any-p wil lsay kaddish later the whole year.
This is a bunch of nonsense. He had a normal Azhkenazi Levaya, according to the minhag of the Chevra Kedisha of Eretz Yisroel. The Chazan said the first Kadish and his son said the second kaddish. The Chief Rabbi of the Armed Forces said Tehilim and the Chazon made the Moleh.
NOT TRUE!!! Change this Loshon Horah story. I just got back from the funeral and there was rabbis (Rav Amar)and Tehilim (by Tzahal rabbi) and Kel Moleh. It was very Bakovedik!
to comment #8
1) no issur of lashon ha’rah on re’shaim
2) based on the klal (see rambam and others) that one should
be dan re’shaim le’kaf chova, I would assume that the choice to indeed have some kind of tehilim and kaddish was to grab an opportunity to be ma’aveer perople al ha’das by thinking that there was something yiddish about Shamir
To # 18 (glatta_kup) –
You have such rediculous chutzpah to call Shamir (or anyone, for that matter) a rasha!! You have no clue who he was. You don’t like zionism & zionists? woop de doo – don’t be one! But the chutzpah you have to call him a rasha!?!?! This is a man who stood up for the security of the Jewish people around the world. This is a man who helped build a country that you no-doubtedly visit and benefit from.
Not happy about him being “less religious” than you? You think that gives you the right to call him a rasha? You think that gives you the right to say loshon hara about him? Again, I embarrased that this is the way frum people act! Go talk to one of the gedolei hador and ask him (directly, yourself!) if Shamir was a rasha. Ask him if you are allowed to speak loshon hara about him!
#6, you do not write about a rasha z”l. And someone who does aveiros be’meizid is a rasha. For rules regarding Olam ha’Ba, see perek Chelek in Sanhedrin.
Here’s an idea – why don’t we take on ourselves to learn Mishnayos and say Kaddish for him – It seems there is plenty of thought about him – bottom line – he was a Yid – and he now knows the Emes – which most of us only think we know – and so – let’s do something for his Neshama – and who knows – maybe he’ll go before the Kisei HaKavod and be mivakesh rachamim for us. Oh – and for anyone who is uttering a huge ‘jeeez’ – you take 2 mesechtas – it’ll be good for you!
So perfectly well said Furhatone. Every word!
We don’t do tikkunim for reshoim.
#15, “rabbiofberlin”, since when it is customary for someone else to say kaddish at a funeral, when the sons are there?