“The chareidim err regarding military service. Little by little this error is ending however”, states Rabbi Shlomo Aviner, a prominent posek in the dati leumi community.
Rabbi Aviner was speaking to students about the Plesner Committee, with the latter being the government committee that is working to legislate the law that will replace the Tal Law, simply defining the new reality for citizens of Israel regarding military or national services, primarily directed at chareidim and Arabs.
“The army is our common denominator and we mustn’t lose this” added the rav.
Rabbi Aviner told his talmidim that the chareidim are good people, people who are moser nefesh in their avodas Hashem, but regarding this particular matter they are not correct.
The rav believes in bringing chareidim into the fold of sharing the burden via IDF or national service. He feels this can be accomplished while providing them an atmosphere in line with their hashkafa as well as inducting them into a military service after their complete their studies, prior to joining the workforce.
“Tzahal is Am Yisrael and it is the single largest common denominator we have. We mustn’t lose this” the rav concluded.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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21 Responses
Actually, if the army stopped discriminating against Jews, most Hareidim would join – but most hilonim would quit since the army would be “too Jewish” for them.
Of course this “rav” is a bit confused, since Torah and Mitsvos are the largest common denominatorwe have – and this confusion explains a lot of what he says.
BH someone spoke up for this!
This zionist rabbi vs. the Chazon Ish?
This zionist rabbi vs. the Briaker Rov?
This zionist rabbi vs. the Satmar Rov?
This zionist rabbi vs. Rav Elchonon Wasserman?
This zionist rabbi vs. Rav Shach?
This zionist rabbi vs. Rav Elyashev?
It’s no contest!
So because he’s a “prominent Posek in the Dati Leumi community” he thinks he actually knows better than Rav Elyashiv…
The Chutzpah is really unbelievable – by now can’t they look back and see clearly?! Who did their system put out of stature?!…
“The army is our common denominator and we mustn’t lose this”
“Tzahal is Am Yisrael and it is the single largest common denominator we have. We mustn’t lose this” the rav concluded.
Wow…
I thought Torah was supposed to be our common denominator. I guess that would make things too complicated. It’s a good thing we have something so inspiring and uplifting as the Tzaha”l to fall back onto. Indeed as nefews of our great uncle Eisov it is very befitting that our national bond should be “Al charbecho tichye”…
In all seriousness, however, didin’t Rav Nissim Karelitz’s Beis din have a psak against this Rabbi not allowing him to pasken in Hilchos Nidda due to certain incidents?
Nebuch
The “dati” people have completely lost all perspective. If the gedolim say to join the army, the charedim will, but so long as they do not say that, charedim will continue doing what Jews for generations have done all along: listen to their rabbonim! If the leumi people would have done the same thing 100 years ago, klal yisroel might be better off as more people would recognize that Torah, mitzvos, yiras shomoyim, and yiras cheit are our common denominators, not funny hashkofos or some quasi-goyish army.
The Tora requires us to join the Army. Certainly those who are wasting their time and the tzibbor’s money by hanging around instead of learning should go in and then go to work.
@chulunt: It’s zionist rabbis vs chareidi rabbis.
Poskim and talmidi chachamim on both sides.
He wants to make the chareidim close their gemaras and draft them into the army and force them to listen to kol isha. And, this is going to help klal Yisrael?
I’d like to see the Dati Leumi “gedolim” fill Citi Field with their followers for an asifa. Can they muster 60,000 bnai Torah on short notice? I highly doubt it.
Seems like all u commenters were brought up in the litvish world. Please do not deny the importance of the work of the tzahal. And understand that what was true at one time doesn’t always carry to another time. Forget zionism- klal yisroel will always be made up of people w different opinions. At wht point will u realize u are no holier than a chiloni who wasn’t given a chance to learn? And u may be held accountable for driving him further away…
He’s not saying anything new. The seemingly complex part is in getting civil service work, (and eventually the military itself) to adjust themselves to be accomodating to chareidish hashkafa, as the rav mentioned.
Aviner worships the army above the Torah. He “paskened” that soldiers must obey orders even if they are against the halacha. With his own hands he assaulted and beat up people who were trying to prevent the expulsion from the Gaza strip. There have also been other allegations against him. In much of the Dati Leumi world he is muktzeh machmas mius.
#3 – Is that a “My Rav is better than your Rav” post?
What about the Lubavitcher Rebbe? Was he not Gadol enough for you?
I don’t agree with R Aviner’s reasoning, as it’s Torah which defines and unites Am Yisrael, but his message isn’t necessarily wrong. Hareidim need to take an active role in fulfilling the mitzvah of pikuach nefesh, even if in such an unfavorable environment as the IDF.
Chulent, would you argue with Rav Kook and Rav J.B. Soloveitchik, who knew kol haTorah kula?
lkwdmama says:
June 1, 2012 at 1:48 am
He wants to make the chareidim close their gemaras and draft them into the army and force them to listen to kol isha. And, this is going to help klal Yisrael?
I’d like to see the Dati Leumi “gedolim” fill Citi Field with their followers for an asifa. Can they muster 60,000 bnai Torah on short notice? I highly doubt it.
A lot more, for example on Yom Yerushalayim, more than that came out in respect and celebration of Yerushalayim and gathered in the streets thanking Hashem for giving ALL of us the opportunity (even those who think the army is the enemy) to take care of our Holy city, instead of letting the Jordanians use it as a bathroom.
If the Torah requires a Jewish Army/zivat Hashem to be made up of Jews who have a true Irat Hashem. Then clearly WHAT is the issue with the Hesder Yshivot system.
Learning combined with army service! Please!
This is about any Jew who refuses army service from the country they live in.
Politics aside. Israel exists and you the charadie live here and easily except money from the government for your institutions and families.
Not Serving endangers Jewish lives. The Torah requires you and everyone to defend ALL Jewish lives that may be at risk from enemy attack. Did not Moshe, Aharon, Dovid Hamelech, etc all fight in battle to defend OUR people.
So WHOM are you not to do the same!!!!!!!
Chulent , yes who are you to put some rabbis over others.and say its no contest.
The army is our common denominator?
This comment is pretty shocking. Hearing that, I don’t think I want to have much in common with him.
Not only that they rulled that you can’t even read his writings until he shows up at the Beit Din
Did not Moshe, Aharon, Dovid Hamelech, etc all fight in battle to defend OUR people.
No, they did not. They sent others to fight, while they sat and learned Torah for their zechus.