Yerucham Estreicher was interviewed by Moti Lavi on chareidi radio as the chasm between the “new” and “old” chareidim as they are referred to in Eretz Yisrael gains momentum.
Estreicher is a resident of Ramat Beit Shemesh and he works in public relations and marketing for small business. He is a leading figure in the Tov Party, affiliated with Rav Chanoch Werdiger and Poalei Agudas Yisrael which is working to gain momentum and restore what Werdiger believes is the life of authentic chareidim in Eretz Yisrael as he saw in his home and community.
Estreicher boasts being among the founders of the party in the city, and explains they see a need to assist, including a child who simply cannot get accepted to a cheider if that is what the call of the hour is. In a recent column released by Estreicher he rejects the notion that Degel HaTorah represents his yiddishkheit, adding Gafne does not represent him any more than Shelly Yacimovich of the Labor Party. A recent meeting between Estreicher and MK Rav Moshe Gafne seems to have prompted the column, in which Estreicher separates himself from Degel and its hashkafa, as much as possible. He had words of praise for Gafne’ status and efforts on behalf of the tzibur, but simultaneously distances himself from Gafne and Degel.
He stresses that when the decision to launch Tov was made they went HaGaon HaRav Aaron Leib Shteinman Shlita. He writes their shaliach explained to the Rosh Yeshiva regarding the problems in Beit Shemesh, adding they wished to start a party that copies the Betar Illit example. He quotes Rav Shteinman as responding “If this is so, then it is good”.
He feels Degel is a wonderful party, “but it does not represent us and they cannot come tomorrow and say they do. Just like there is Shas and others”. He does not feel the time has come to launch another chareidi party in Knesset, but alternatively, the chareidi tzibur is too diverse to have one party, in this case Degel, representing everyone.
Estreicher seeks to defend his position with Lavi, explaining “at the end I learned in Mir”, but admitted while he did attend prominent yeshivos before Mir, they were not the classic chareidi Litvish yeshivos. He rejects that a newspaper decides what is and what is not daas torah, giving the example how he sent a shaliach to receive Rav Shteinman’s bracha to launch their party. He told Lavi he asked the shaliach to record the conversation for proof in an effort to avoid future problems.
He explains that a week before elections a rav from Agudas Yisrael called him and warned “you lost olam haba. How can you do this?” to which he responds that he told the rav he has a recording from Rav Shteinman just for such an occasion, to document Rav Shteinman gave his bracha for the initiative.
Estreicher explains he and the others are shomer torah and mitzvos despite being labeled “new chareidim” and he rejects all efforts to delegitimize him and his colleagues, comparing his situation to Shas in 1984.
Lavi: Do you describe yourself as being chareidi?
Estreicher: Well, permit me to explain how I address this when I speak publically.
Lavi: You already responded by your hesitation, by not immediately saying ‘yes, I am chareidi’.
Estreicher: I cannot say chareidi in the classic sense that you understand today.
Lavi: Do you wear blue shirts?
Estreicher: yes, indeed.
Lavi: Do you want your children to learn in mixed gender classes when they are young?
Estreicher: This is indeed a problematic issue that must be addressed. (He goes into lengthy response).
Estreicher explains that on the one hand people vote for Degel, but then the very same person’s children are not accepted to the mosdos, unable to find a school.
The dispute Estreicher feels pertains to those who feel that are not suited to sit and learn, and if they are labeled as losers or permitted to go out into the working world.
Lavi: If I tell you that your father is listening would you change your tone?
Estreicher: My father would be proud. He was among the founders of Degel and he knows exactly where I stand and what we are trying to do. 60-80 years ago there was a need and after the Holocaust there was nothing left and the world of torah had to be rebuilt. Today things are different.
As we learn in Shulchan Aruch there is a difference between leadership for the tzibur and a private person… today many simply hang around the beis medrash and fear leaving to work or whatever for they will be labeled and blacklisted and this is not acceptable.
I invite everyone to come to Beit Shemesh and see them in the blue shirts, the people that attend shiurim in the morning and at night and work during the day. They are in shul and do the right thing. I am in shul for all minyanim and we learn between mincha and maariv too and I bring my friends along.
Lavi: Who you voting for in the next election?
Estreicher: At present I do not see anyone to vote for.
Lavi: If Aryeh Deri runs?
Estreicher: he laughs
Lavi: I understand people from Tov have been meeting with him.
Estreicher: I am not certain that everyone would run after him with total faith either…
Beis Yaakov is an area school and it must be for everyone… in one case I went to Yerushalayim and personally spoke with Rav Elyashiv Shlita, who said if they do not accept the girl the person is a “Rasha”. Nevertheless she was not accepted, even after calling Rav Efrati to confirm the conversation with the gadol hador took place, which he did, the girl was nevertheless not accepted.
I simply hope moshiach will come and remove these issues and the problems that we face today.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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26 Responses
“Lavi: Do you describe yourself as being chareidi?”
Perhaps Mr. Lavi would like to explain what he means by “charedi”? The term probably has as many definitions as there are people.
“Lavi: Do you wear blue shirts?”
So, shirt color is the first factor that differentiates a charedi from a non charedi? Not shmiras shabbos, kashrus, taharas hamishpacha, or any other of the taryag mitzvos? Shirt color?
“I simply hope moshiach will come and remove these issues and the problems that we face today.”
AMEN (hopefully he knows what color shirt to wear).
Brown shirts in Germany and black shirts in Romania meant membership in the Nazi party. What does wearing blue shirts have to do with anything? What am I missing?
it’s very sad hat good people have to live with such a stigma… no?
My feeling is theat Gafne has nothing against this type of Chareidi and would love to represent them as well, but he can’t change the stigma in the Litvishe Chareidi street… (I’m Israeli. I know all about it…).
This party has long been in the shadows and BH has finally emerged. There are many people who are supporters and were waiting for a “New” Chardei party to evolve.
Hey, I wear blue shirts or white shirtss with blue in them. What does that make me?
Oh, I forgot. I live in the USA & we are allowed to wear colored shirts here.
If you wear a blue shirt, it means you’re different and scary. Ein Derech!
Like the people who at a New York Yankee game who wear NYY clothes show their connection to the Yankees, so to a person who wears a white shirt shows his connection to the Torah world. That’s all it means. Not more and not less. And, that was the question proposed to Estreicher. Its not so complicated and not such a big deal.
He’s drawing neat straight clear lines when the reality is quite fuzzy and irregular.
“That’s all it means. Not more and not less.”
I thought adherence to the torah was the identifier. Silly me. Live and learn. Better go dust off a white shirt.
I live in Beitar and I’m not quite sure what he means by the Beitar Eilit example. Tov got very few votes here, simply because their platform does not represent the general population here in Beitar.
As an aside, Poalei Agudas Yisroel was thrown out of Agudah decades ago because of its split on the giyus nashim (compulsory service in Sherut Leumi)issue, at the urging of such gedolim as the Brisker Rav and more.
The Kohen Gadol did the Avodah in the Bais HaMikdosh wearing a Kutones made of Tcheiless.
A BLUE SHIRT.
If it it’s good for HaShem Yisborach it should surely be good for the holy yeshiva world of Bnei Brak.
Everything seemed fine and this party seems to be on the right path. But what is the business with mix genders in the schools, this is a very serious issue, but nothing was elaborated on the matter. He didn’t answer the question, he averted it like a typical politician.
Since when did yidden start wearing uniforms as a militant expression of ostensible faith? You know what the uniform of a Torah loving Jew is? His entire body. The uniform is a way to splash holiness in the face of everyone who sees.
Its unreal. 9 comments and holier than though Akuperma disagree’s with everyone else! Anyone surprised?
Sounds a lot like….. Lakewood!
Its not so complicated and not such a big deal.
EXCEPT ITS NOT TRUE!!
Recommended reading re Blue Shirt and White Shirt The Sneetches by DR Seuss
I very much empathize with what he is saying and what he wants to do. But, why do people need to run to that stupid parliament which they call “kneset”, in order to make a point or build a group identity?
In any case the “chareidi” thing is way out of proportion in Eretz Yisroel. All we need to try to be is a true authentic “Yehudi” that’s it. And for heaven’s sake don’t defile yourself in the zionist “kneset”.
You can’t ansewer quickly and easily whether or not you want mixed genders in younger schools and yet you call yourself “chareidi”?
zionflag, confess! Do your white shirts have a blue stripe like the Israeli flag? Also, I must know whether your talit has black or blue stripes. Otherwise, I can’t respect you.
What makes him a “new” Chareidi is his willingness to think for himself and not mindlessly accept some inyan because a “gadol” said it must be done this way or that way. Of course, he has respect for the views of gadolim and actively seeks out their views as the article indicates, but he reserves the right to make up his own mind, notwithstanding what some rav might say.
#13 & #20 – The Article was not recording everything he said. He said he want’s to send them to a seperate school, but he can’t find a place to send them, that’s all.
He’s not NEW CHAREDI. He’s CHARDAL!!!!! In my chardal community, the men go to a 6 am shacharis so they can learn before going to work. Then they go to the many daf yomi shiurim available before and after maariv. Compare that with the 7:30 am shacharis in the kollel velt.
#23:
If he can’t find a place to send his kids that isn’t separate, then that means that having separate-gender schools in the younger grades is a preference for him, but not a high priority.
The blue shirt thing should also not get everyone so upset, I think. Just about every segment of society has a wardrobe that signals, “I identify with ‘X’.” There are many modern Orthodox women who cover their hair, but you don’t see them with sheitls covered with the hats that Chassidishe women wear, right? Why? Maybe it would look very cute on some of them. But they’re not chassidish, so they don’t. A spodik is much cheaper and (supposedly) more comfortable than a shtreiml, but you won’t see a Vizhnitzer chassid wearing one even if he likes it better.
It’s the same thing with the blue shirts. It has nothing to do with yiras Shamayim, it has nothing to do with kashrus or with Shabbos. It’s an identity thing. Here in EY, the accepted levush for a chareidi man is a white shirt. It’s true that in the US things are different, and that is why I know of men who wear only white shirts here, but will wear colored shirts when they go back to the US.
The facts on the ground are that the lines of demarcation in EY are much more highly defined than in the US. That’s the nature of Israeli society, be it chiloni, Mizrachi, dati-leumi, chareidi-leumi or chareidi or anything else you can come up with.
#22: “…his willingness to think for himself and not mindlessly accept some inyan because a “gadol” said it must be done this way or that way… he reserves the right to make up his own mind”. In my opinion, your comments sound like a quote straight from the protocols of the reform!!
Coming back to the main story, I think Estreicher sounds too frum for me. Only blue shirts? But does he wear jeans and sometimes pink shirts also? Otherwise I think I will start my own new party and split the vote even further…