MK (HaBayit HaYehudi – New National Religious Party) Zevulun Orlev praise the High Court of Justice decision declaring the Tal Law illegal. Orlev stated the end of the Tal Law marks the end of the collective draft evasion and now, the chareidim will also be compelled to share in the national defense burden. “The Tal Law was a colossal failure” he added.
“The IDF’s battles are in the Halachic framework of milchemes mitzvah and therefore everyone must go out to battle, even a chosson during his first year of marriage” Orlev added. Therefore adds Orlev, “there is not a single Halachic source to dismiss one’s obligation from this milchemes mitzvah”.
The veteran MK adds that the dati leumi tzibur is more aware than any other sector in society that one may incorporate “safra v’seifa”, pointing to the hesder and mechina yeshivot. He adds that “IDF service did not prevent a single person from raising talmidei chachamim, gedolei torah, roshei yeshiva, and dayanim, all of whom successfully passing their tests for smicha and dayanus – even more so than the graduates of the chareidi yeshivos”.
When asked to comment on the Tal Law, Orlev called it a colossal failure, explaining it was intended to build a bridge between the chareidi tzibur and the remainder of the country, to gradually introduce larger numbers into the IDF to share in the defense burden, and then into the national workforce, but it failed. “Only 5% of the chareidi tzibur serves in the IDF, accusing the chareidim of crying how the IDF simply fails to accommodate its lifestyle”. He continues that “the IDF does not exactly cater to the dati leumi soldiers either, yet they are aware this is not an excuse for avoiding military service and sharing in the national defense burden”.
“The systematic shirking of responsibility cannot continue indefinitely. Everyone is aware that the Israeli public, including dati leumi, is unwilling to continue this discriminatory policy between blood and blood, while simultaneously financing and funding those who do not share in this burden” he added.
Orlev favors legislating a new law, one that will permit a “limited number” of chareidim to continue learning fulltime, to declare torah study as their profession, and the remainder will have to serve in the IDF as the rest of the country does.
“Israel badly needs chareidi integration in all government areas. We are not dealing with a negligible minority, the narrow margins of Israeli society. Israel cannot give up on the integration of chareidim into the security and economic sectors of the country. This integration will be an added value towards strengthening of the State of Israel as a Jewish state.”
Speaking to Israel Radio on Thursday afternoon, 1 Rosh Chodesh Adar 5772, Knesset Speaker Reuven Rivlin stated he believes most chareidim must serve, while permitting a limited number to learn fulltime. He added however this cannot be achieved by compelling them to serve, but only ‘by reaching an understanding’.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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13 Responses
Its a milchames mitzva? to participate or not?
An MK knows better then the gedolei hador. Aha. And it’s good to know that he can pasken what’s a milchemes mitzva when the gedolim disagree. Rubbish.
now we can understand what goes on in that army. yefas toar.
but chareidim should now be able to exempt themselves from thiat arayos house by claiming yaray virach layvov
We shouldn’t be so harsh about Zevulun Orlev. After all, he’s not a Ben Torah. A Milchemes Mitzvah is one based on Taanach directly. This could reveal the Israel secret weapon. They have a time machine, and the IDF is sending troops back in time to fight the Caananites (the real ones, not the secular Israelis who claim to be Caananites). That could explain some of the miracles in Taanach – there were some time travelling people from the Golani hiding in the background and helping out. Amazing. -:)
Now the real problem, since the IDF does time travelling, can they go back in time to contact the Sanhedrin and consult the Urim v-Tumin in order to declare a milchemos reshus in our time (3000 years after the Beis Din was sitting). They better not mention that the major cause of the war was a desire of some Jews to be free of Torah, since might really get the people back then all upset.
Well “kluger yid” i geuss u’r not so smart that u 4got a simple halacha that hayrai vrach laivov is only by a milchames r’shus,,,,,,,
There is another option, and I heard it long ago in a drash, that milchamos fought today are neither milchemes reshus nor milchemes mitzvah, but a third category or subdivision of milchemes mitzvah discussed in Ramabam Hichos Melucha and elaborated on by the Kesef Mishna, called a Milchemes Chovah, an obligatory war. It is also discussed in meseches Sotah. Rava explains Rav Yehuda’s understanding of a war that needs to be fought, but is neither to destroy amalek, 7 nations, or conquer the land, nor simply to expand the kingdom.
No need for making jokes. There is ample halachic discussion and precedent for describing this kind of service as at least a milchemes chovah.
I have given up long ago to comment upon each of apukerma’s fantasmagoric writings but his comment here is in rather bad taste, considering that we are talking about saving and protecting millions of Jewish lives. He is, of course, totally wrong in what he writes about wars and the tanach. There is a long sugya in sotah (mishne and gemoro) and a very clear rambam that delineate the character of the various wars we must wage,that include protecting Jews and their property. Last time I looked ,the chasmonoim and bar kochva both went to war nd this was without the urim vetumim.
The Satmar Rebbe had his shita.
Rav Elyashiv has his shotos.
Rav Ovadya has his own unique take.
This is also a legitimate shita…
According to an article in the New York Times, every soldier knows that the gender-integrated IDF is a house of ill-fame.
The forced attendance of Hareidi and Dati-leumi soldiers at concerts where there is totally gratuitous and unecessary Kol Isha is just the tip of the secular assimilationist iceberg.
Ve-Day-Lachakema Birmeza.
#7- The Chasmonoim were fighting over a Torah issue. The Helennized Jews who ran Eretz Yisrael for their Greek overlords were trying to surpress Torah. It wasn’t a real estate dispute. The Chasmonoim are a precedent for those who favor acts of violence against those who demand public transportation in Eretz Yisrael on Shabbos, trying to prevent Bnei Torah from learning under the guise of conscription, or stuggling to make Tel Aviv the world center for “sex tourism”.
The Muslims never objected to Jews doing mitsvos in Eretz Yisrael. The problems occured when the zionists took control of the yishuv and started engaging in political and economic warfare on the Muslims, and the Muslims, being good descendants of Yismael, responded militarily. The gedolim of 100 years ago, when these decisions were made, opposed the zionists and warned that this would lead to hostilities.
To akuperuma, the muslims never objected jews doing mitzvot in eretz yisrael but they just want to kill us evry second.the are plain nazis not german nazis but muslim nazis what do you have to say about the 1929 hebron massacare the arabs killed jews because of the 67 borders. Face the fact the arabs hate you, us, and wish your death evry second of their lives they even admit it
Acc.to rav ovadia it is a milchemet mizvah
The one option no one is considering is, the IDF is not a “milchomoh”.
They are an anti-roideif force.
It is quite approriate considering this week’s parshoh. Shoiftim veShoitrim.
The IDF are, in a sense, shoitrim. They are the police for foreign enemies, as opposed to the mishtara who are for domestic.
With this clarified, we can now consider the Halochic implications of this.
Someone who is learning, davening, reciting Shima, or occupied in any other Mitzvoh need not, and should not, interrupt to stop a roideif who is already “sufficiently pursued”.
Is there such a thing as “sufficiently pursued”? Obviously. One need only consider a band of vigilantes chasing the neighborhood drunk away from killing his foe. The Talmid Chochom need not involve himself.
In the case of the IDF: The Government, Army and People of Israel who pursue Chareidi enlistment are citing fairness and integration as the reason to interrupt the Loimdei Toiroh etc. This alone disqualifies their attempt from a Halochic standpoint.
Were they citing a “militarily strategic necessity” for the enlistment of Chareidim, if. Valid, may necessitate “kiyum Toiroh” by enlisting them, however this is not the issue at-hand.
Hashem is keeping the IDF Mighty, Powerful and Intimidating despite the low level of Chareidi enlistment, therefore a claim of strategic necessity would be empty anyway, despite the strategic advantage Chareidim in the army would bring.
In conclusion: Given the military (nevermind political) success of the IDF, al pi Toiroh, Yeshivoh students etc should not interrupt or reduce their Toiroh study to fight, or even train, and most certainly not for general “national service”. On the contrary, the IDF is doing a fine job without many Chareidim.
Lastly: Charedidim are 8% of the Jewish (nevermind Arab etc) population in Israel. If Israel’s enemies were 8% short of overpowering Israel we wouldn’t need Chareidim, we would need Hashem. Israel is thereby better served with Binei Toiroh occupied in Toiroh and Mitzvos, than with them spending their time and diverted focus on military pursuits.
Vda”l