As the dispute between Yated Ne’eman (Israel) and Mishpacha Magazine (Israel) in Eretz Yisrael continues, the pashkavilim and chareidi media have attracted the interest of the secular press as well. The daily Yediot Achronot reported on Tuesday, January 10, 2011, that two letters with the signature of Maran Posek HaDor HaGaon HaRav Yosef Sholom Elyashiv Shlita were sent to a graphologist to authenticate the rav’s signature. Journalist Akiva Novak reported the two signatures were identical, too identical to be real.
Galei Tzahal’s (Army Radio) Yael Dan spoke with Avishai Ben-Chaim, Channel 10 News chareidi affairs correspondent as well as with one of the Gadol HaDor’s confidants, Rabbi Chaim Cohen.
DAN:
During the past two weeks there has been a storm in the chareidi community over letters of the rav. What is this about? What is going on?
BEN-CHAIM:
There is the classic chareidi and this stream is at war with the newcomers, those with an independent weekly publication, those who have successfully influenced readers in ways that is not favorable to the classic stream. This is what is taking place. This is what has led to the letters against the weekly publication, which influences a change, an unwanted change in the eyes of the old stream.
The opinion of the weekly has given legitimacy to change, to going out into the workplace and earning a living for example, without embarrassment. Now, the weekly is challenging the holiest of the holies, that the word of the gadol is not final and unquestionable, and this is what is going on today.
Towards achieving this goal they sent letters from the rav for graphology analysis to place a doubt in the minds of supporters, to permit questioning the validity of the letters against the weekly publication. The exam confirmed the signatures are identical, but this is how it works in the chareidi camp, using a rubber stamp or another type of device and signing when approved. The rav himself does not sign, and that is why they are identical.
This is the same with Rav Chaim Amsellem and his actions vis-à-vis Maran HaGaon HaRav Ovadia Yosef Shlita, trying to slowly move the tzibur away from accepting his word without any question. He is placing doubt in the minds of his tzibur.
Something has happened in the chareidi camp regarding the word of the leader. In the time of Rav Shach, his word was final – no discussion.
DAN:
Let’s hear from Rabbi Chaim Cohen, who is close to the rav. I understand the rav is still in the hospital.
RAV COHEN:
Good morning. No he is not. The rav has been released from hospital. Baruch Hashem he has already visited the Kosel.
DAN:
He is totally alert?
RAV COHEN:
Yes indeed, without question. He is quite aware of what is going on.
DAN:
Is he aware of efforts to undermine his authority?
RAV COHEN:
Permit me to address this specific matter. Would you agree that Ben-Chaim is a respectable fellow, one with good judgment? Well then ask him for he had the story too and yet he did not publicize it. Apparently he knows something.
BEN-CHAIM:
Look, we see the advert and I did not go ahead with it, even though we see the signatures are identical since I know how things work in the chareidi world. In my mind this is not the story however. The real story is that there are chareidi elements that decided to bring this to the secular media. That is the real story in my mind, leaking it to the press. The fact that chareidim are working to persuade the public to stop believing in daas Torah – that is the story here.
DAN:
He is basically saying he did not want to play this game.
RAV COHEN:
It is simple. In the past, a journalist would check and verify sources and information prior to publishing. In this case, it is evident that this journalist did not do his homework for if he did, he would have come to the same conclusion as Ben-Chaim.
DAN:
I do not believe the public understands.
RAV COHEN:
Permit me to explain. The rav signed the letter. As a result, the letter was published, appearing in Yated Ne’eman. At the same time the rav signed, an order was given to the newspaper to use the rav’s signature. We don’t send the actual letter that he signed but we authorize Yated to move with the story and use the electronic signature.
BEN-CHAIM:
You must understand this story is small, and it was reported in the correct proportion in Yediot. The big story is what I said, that the rav’s word may be questioned and this is what the report should be about. How can it be that a Gadol HaDor rules on many heavy things and in this case, we can doubt his word. This is the story.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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9 Responses
Which low-life brought this to the secular media?
#1, do you really think that there are no people in the secular press who follow the Chareidi press to pick up stories?
Regarding the word of a gadol, B”H there are many gedolim but unfortunately there is no Sanhedrin (this was tried in the days of the Mahari Bei-Rav but failed because of the opposition of the Ralbach). Thus people choose which gadol they want to follow and when. This is also not new. When Abbaye and Rava disagree we generally follow Rava. However, there are six exceptions. If there are Chareidi job training instittuions and Chareidi streams of general institutions then obviously there is support.
What strikes me is the statement “There is the classic chareidi and this stream is at war with the newcomers …
The opinion of the weekly has given legitimacy to change, to going out into the workplace and earning a living for example, without embarrassment. Now, the weekly is challenging the holiest of the holies, that the word of the gadol is not final and unquestionable, and this is what is going on today.”
Is it “change” to go out and earn a living? How much has been written in Halacha regarding the fact that this is a mitzva. Is it change that there are disagreements in Halacha? Shas and poskim are filled with disagreements. The problem today is that this has become politicized. One is a member of a “stream”. Is there a “Rava stream” and an “Abbaye stream”? Even Bet Hillel and Bet Shammai sometimes were modeh to each other. What happened to “eilu ve’eilu”?
The guilty parties here are the gabbaim and attendants of gedolim that use the name of tzadikim for agendas
@AviK You have to realite that not everyone can argue with everyone. Not anyone can argue with Maran Eliyashiv Shlita, one must be a Bar Plvgta.
@AviK Not everyone can argue with everyone. Not anyone can argue with Maran Eliyashiv Shlita, one must be a Bar Plvgta.
@Avi K – Never thought I would agree with you (based on our CR discussions).
Indeed, I would argue that the ‘newcomers’ with a completely new derech here are the ones who believe everyone should be in kollel eternally.
I’m not saying that’s a bad thing per se – it would be great if we could all learn fulltime and nobody would have to work – but the economic situation clearly does not allow that. And *if* we have to work, then, I do not understand what is wrong with writing about successful chareidim. I *can* understand that writing about people who went into truly controversial things such as the IDF would be a problem. But what’s the problem in writing about people who became successful in the fields of medicine or natural sciences?
It seems the Israeli chareidi leadership wants all chareidim to remain uneducated boors on scientific / secular knowledge – and that is where people do need to earn their money.
They want people to live, but off what? From working in 4000 NIS jobs? From writing tefilin and mezuzos in their basements? How many more people can become sofrei stam? And with the ladies – how many unemployed teachers are there? My wife is a qualified kindergarten teacher from a seminary in Bnei Brak, but she couldn’t find a job in Israel for 4 years. The market is completely saturated with these kinds of ‘chareidi’ jobs.
So what’s the problem in letting people go to university? I most definitely understand the concerns about the Israeli university environment – the Israeli universities in particular are highly politicized and generally strongly anti-religious places.
So what’s wrong with setting up institutions or branches specifically for chareidim? Personally I do think chareidim should still try to study at ‘regular’ universities in mixed environments, simply because, IMHO, I believe the ‘academic’ studies in a 100% chareidi environment will always be of a lower level than the academic studies in a normal, mixed college / university.
Besides, there are plenty of things that are not offered by the chareidi institutions – for example, most health-related subjects. There is a huge shortage of health care workers in Israel; why don’t chareidim fill that gap? What is more appropriate for a Torah Yid to do, than to make people healthy? Caring for the sick – what could possibly be wrong with that? Obviously it’s not all that popular with chareidim since it isn’t an ‘easy’ 9-5 job – it means working night shifts and weekends, including shabbos. But that’s allowed as needed and it’s just something people need to accept and deal with.
This chareidi insulation is one of the reasons I left for chu”l. Here there is no shame on chareidim who do study – granted, few do, especially chassidim, but there *are* normal, mainstream chareidim who do follow academic studies at normal, mixed universities without any issues. At least in chu”l the rabbonim understand that people need to make a living and cannot live from … what?
Sometimes it just seems the Israeli chareidi gedolim have simply lost all sense of what the words “money”, “budget” and “income” are about.
gadlus batorah is not supposed to foible with political flexing but providing leadership and inspiration
History is revealing.
“In the time of Rav Shach, his word was final – no discussion.”
This was the time that the main stream newspaper at that time, “HaModia” which had been set up by the Gedolai HaDoar of the previous generation, was challenged by the ‘newcomer’ Yeted. Rav Shach did not want people expressing concepts that he did not agree with and so Yeted was born to give another view. But there were other viewpoints by other gadolim – gadolim do not agree on everything but they can disagree as gentlemen with respect.
Times have changed and the Israeli frum community is much much larger and view points different from Yeted abound in the street. This is a challenge to Yeted who views itself as THE Torah viewpoint, even though there are many godolim who disagree with their viewpoint, they are being silenced by Yeted who wants to be the standard bearer of frum Jewry which they are definitely not.
I’m more confused now.