YWN-Israel on Wednesday morning reported that a chareidi man was arrested for verbally assaulting and spitting at a female soldier on a number 49 bus.
According to a Kol Chai Radio report, eyewitnesses told police that the events were quite different than reported initially. They stated the female soldier sat among many men and she was asked politely to please sit elsewhere. The avreich who addressed the soldier was not rude, and he most certainly did not curse of spit, the report adds.
Passengers’ report that police arrived on the scene very fast, and the actions of the police at the scene attested to their total lack of objectivity, placing the avreich under arrest, opting to believe the soldier and ignore the statements from eyewitnesses.
Jerusalem Police Commander Niso Shacham released a statement, quoting the avreich as saying “harlot, move to the back!” The senior commander explains this is what was reported to him by Egged.
“We sent a car and the criminal was arrested and he will be facing the full weight of the law”.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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32 Responses
One thought… If I were in the same situation, I think I’d be more likely to move myself, rather than ask this female soldier to move. For me, it seems pretty amazing chutzpah to ask a woman to move so that I can have the seat I want. Is that just an Israeli cultural thing?
I would also believe the soldier & the bus driver. The men on the bus have no chezkas Kashrus.
I suppose the truth here is yet to be determined.
Let’s hope there are kosher witnesses to supply that truth.
He says, she says. why is this article any more believable than the eyewitness accounts of the police. Because all policeman hate Haredim? Because no haredi man whould ever refer to a woman as a zonah? Its an embarrasment to all of us but its not a solution to engage in denial and sweep it under the rug.
welcome to “medinat yisroel” where respect for torah “rains” supreme. not all chareidim act the way they should but how many times have the authorities flagrantly violated tora law not to mention basic human decency. anyone care to remember the autopsy scandal and ” the fanatic old fashioned’ response to this sacrilege. or perhaps the wanton desecration of graves. so you should be at least as willing to suspect the chilonim for making false claims as you are willing to jump on the “chareidim”
There was nothing wrong with the status quo. once the separate buses came along all the problems start happening, its breeding a taliban like mentality Stop separate buses if you want separate busing higher your own private company this behavior of thinking its your way or the highway is deplorable
How he said it is only seconfary – he should not ask her to move at all.
i knew that it is something like that next time people should not be so fast to write agenst there people
#3 it is ironic that the soldier is a member of our people too, yet many cannot recognize that.
The whole story stinks. This eywitness left out what the ‘polite’ avreich said to the lady when she turned down his offer to join the cattle truck at the back of the bus.
Sure he was polite to the policeman, the policeman had a gun.
What if the gentlemen in the bus had politely said ‘shalom’ to the lady, and then minded their own business.
A big chillul Hashem may have been avoided.
Oy Lonu, Ma hoyo lonu.
it looks like all the writers understand how to run the charide kahila (i don’t enjoy mahadrin buses) but the gadolim do want it and why are we sporting the chilonim and not our rabbonim??!
Does anyone realize that the soldiers are there to protect us? That even if this young lady were technically off duty, were something l’alenu to occur, she’d be the one all the others on the bus would turn to.
I would also believe the soldier & the bus driver. The men on the bus have no chezkas Kashrus.
Just the opposite. A non Shomer shabbos witness is not believed.
It is immaterial how polite he was or wasn’t. He is an idiot or worse for walking into a well set trap. The other party is now a heroine and a tool for the anti frum press, and her picture is plastered all over the frei press where truth is not necessary to push an agenda. His community should put him in cherem for being a public menace.
Unless this incident was filmed, I don’t know how anyone can ever really know the truth. The words ‘polite’ and ‘Israeli’ don’t go together, so I can imagine that the guy was less than gentle when asking the soldier to go to the back. Besides, charedim in Israel aren’t exactly known to be pacifists, so it’s not unlikely that he may have reacted the way they described that he did. On the other hand, the chilonim in are so anti-charedi that they would spin an otherwise insignificant event into front page, charedi-bashing news. So no one side is objective here in any case.
Why in the world would someone beleive a policeman when by the police’s own admission they were not there at the time of the incident and only arrived after being summoned?
As for calling it he said-she said.
You are right the soldier says one thing happened, the avreich says another thing happened thats he-said-she said.
Hence we turn to the eye witnesses on the scene who apparently all state that the avreich is the one telling the truth.
In any normal situation the soldier would be laughed at for trying to make up a story.
However those who are desperate to malign chareidim as usual have to twist themselves into a pretzel to try and stand by their accusations.
Its quite laughable.
As I take this bus quite often, I’ve seen situations like this happen many times. Most of the time it’s a women trying to get a reaction and if someone just looks at her she starts screaming how the chareidim are ruining the world.
Something just isn’t right & I am leaning on NOT believing the soldierette totally. I have a feeling he probably said “something” not too complementary but definitely NOT an arrestable offense.
yitB thaks
I don’t know if the soldier or the witnesses have neemanus, What I do know is that the MEDIA has no neemanus.
Chosheve Yidden i am writting you from Switzerland.Our Rosh Yeshiveh Raw Kopelmann zazal was travelling in an airplane long distance with his wife.There was a Talmid in the plane after he saw that at the other side of the Rosh Yeshivah a lady was sitting he offered his place which was also a better place to sit, to the Rosh Yeshivah.The RY answered if you really want to exchange your better place than i would give to my Rebbezen as i have to stay on my place in order not to offend the lady sitting next to me.This is a GODAUL
This story was reported from his Talmid.No comment is needed.The chillul H. caused in Beth Shemesh no matter what happened is a step back in beeing mekarew Jidden to Jiddishkeit .What a shame!!!
I’m going to rely on the חזקה that it happened as reported in the press. I mean, seriously, does anyone REALLY doubt that it happened any differently? I’ve seen enough of the videos, and heard enough first-hand accounts to know that what this woman claims has a ring of truth to it.
Also, remember it was the busdriver who called it into the police. I suppose the “great journalists” at Kol Chai (slogan: no women allowed!) think he’s a liar, too.
At the end of the day its unfortunate but the facts don’t really matter at this point in the game.
It’s like the (apocryphal?) story about the Chofetz Chaim (I think) in court.
A character witness comes in and starts going on and on about how great a man he is and all the great things he does with obvious embellishments (like an Artscroll biography)…
The other side gets up and says come on, you can’t believe everything this man says – its too much.
And the judge responds… you’re right – this all seems over the top, but they don’t they things like that about people like me or you….
V’hamevin yavin. Or to spell it out, these actions may not be true and an investigation may bear out the reality that this guy didn’t do what the soldier claimed he did — but they don’t tell stories like that about the dati leumi
Amazing how far the hate to torah and its observers are obvious in some comments, hate to a frum yid, and love to a freya provocater, what a shame!
And how would people believe the israeli media known for its stance and unlimited haterd towards charedim, they are out right lying, fabricating facts, and ignoring stories that can put down the charedim in a positive light, or put the chilonim in shade..
I doubt. If anyone has ever been on a bus in the situations, they would also doubt the media take.
If she did indeed sit down ammoungst sat two or three guys that were sitting in those seats at the font where two face two, then she wa being very bold, and yes, instead of all the guys moving, they would ask her to please sit elsewhere. Nothing about wanting her seat.
It is horrible how people believe the media. From beggining to end, it is evil, because it is lies. I have over and over and over again, been on buses where things like this happen. And yes, if a girl sits ammongst 3 guys, and refuses the suggestion to take a different seat, things will quickly get to yelling and calling names. When you are an angel and get your wings, come and preach. I dont doubt she was called a zonah, and dont doubt she likely earned her name calling with flying colors.
Even if the man asked her very politely to sit in the back, that is is still rude to her. Imagine getting on a bus in the States and telling a black man, “Excuse me, but Negros are supposed to sit in the back.” Sitting in the back has always been associated with lower status.
The comments calling her a provocateur, with the intent of excusing the conduct of the aggressor, disgust me. How is it “provocative” to sit in the bus?
It reminds me of those, typically those on the right-wing, who blame female victims of assault by saying “she shouldn’t have been wearing that dress”. She shouldn’t have provoked? How about he shouldn’t have been an aggressor?
One of these days all you keyboard judges will be put into a similar position, and you won’t be believed either. . . . .
“Sitting in the back has always been associated with lower status.”
So just have the mehadrin buses have women at the front and men at the back.
Funny how all the hilonim to whom I’ve suggested this have rejected it. It doesn’t satsify their need to persecute haredim.
#11, everybody knows taht gedolim are very often deliberately misquoted. When Rav Moshe was told that someone misquoted the Chatam Sofer he said “I’m still alive and I’m misquoted”. Rav Scheinberg said that if he had a nickel for every time he was misquoted he would be a rich man. Rav Fischer walked around Yerushalayim crossing his name off posters. Once an avereich who was writing a haalcha book for the general public asked Rav Eliashiv a shaila. When Rav Elishiv answered “muttar’ the avereich nudnicked him until he said “if you want it to be assur, don’t do it”. The avereich wrote that Rav Eliashiv told him that it is worthwhile to be machmir.
#15, you are motzi shem ra on every Israeli. In order to get kappara you have to come here and get mechila from each and every one of us.
#21, Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zatzal would get off one stop after his if a woman sat next to him for the same reason.
As someone who takes this bus usually twice a day – I would believe the AVREICH!!! (this is a bus that goes to Neve Yaakov in Yerushalaim – NOT IN BEIT SHEMESH – where I could maybe believe it!!!)
My daughter was on a 49 bus yesterday, and she told me a Chilonit got on “very immodest” and went to sit up front (seemingly provocartive) and NO ONE said a word to her
By the way, it is acceptable to ask someone to move over (nicely, of course) – even if 2 friends want to sit together
For everyone’s information, Egged wanted this Mehadrin buses for strictly economic reasons – a Charedi company wanted to start a Mehadrin bus kine and the Ministry of Transportation wouldn’t allow it! In addition,I know for a fact that the Mehadrin bus from Rechasim (Kfar Chasidim near Haifa) to Yerushalaim (#999) was originally private – and Egged wanted it (I used it!)
It is hard for me to understand how people from overseas have ANY OPINION about what goes on here!! U R welcomed to come on the 49 Aleph bus and see for youselves how tjis bus works (families and couples sitting together, etc)