HaRav HaGaon Dov Lior Shlita, the chief rabbi of Kiryat Arba and a member of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel Supreme Court, told his talmidim serving in the IDF that they may not take command positions that include female subordinates. The rav also instructed his talmidim to walk out of any and all IDF events that include female vocalists.
The rav opposes the mixed service in the IDF, a reality that has become increasingly problematic as more females opt to become combat soldiers, serving side-by-side with male combatants. The rav’s p’sak halacha was given in his yeshiva, Yeshivat Nir, explaining to talmidim who become commanders that they may not serve with women subordinates under their direct command.
The rav’s p’sak was in the form of a response to a question from a talmid who explained he wishes to accept a command position but there would be females in the unit, asking if this was permissible. The rav explained that from a modesty point of view, commanding women is simply prohibited and contrary to Halacha.
Regarding the need to walk out of events with kol isha, the rav stated “You don’t owe anyone an explanation as to why you must leave”, citing the kol isha is prohibited and there is no alternative but to walk out of such events.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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11 Responses
Note that he didn’t object to his talmidim obeying orders from female commanders, but objected to them giving orders to women under their command (presumably since having a male being in control over a woman creates a situation where she would be exploitable).
#1 He answered the question asked by a talmid (not the one asked by you).
Akuperma-
Incorrect. The reason why the Rav did not have to mention anything about receiving orders from women because his talmidim are hesder boys who do not get drafted to units with women commanding. However when a hesder soldier willfully accepts to be a commander or officer he is not necessarily put in command of a hesder unit.
The rav seems intent on making it impossible for chareidi bachurim to participate in the IDF. There is no reason why a male officer cannot give commands to women and still maintain tzinius. We are not talking about intimate behavior, flirting etc. but only legitimate orders common in every army in the world. On the one hand the Charedim whine that they are not allowed to advance in the army which in turn is essential for getting good jobs. On the other hand, they seem to go out of their way to find reasons why they cannot serve.
#4 They want to serve in male only units. Why is it so difficult for the army to accommodate them? They want them to serve, they whine when they don’t, and then they make it so difficult! They know the charadim have their rules and their going to stick to them!
#4, in ‘every army in the world’ (except for Israel,) there are no women serving side by side with men.
To HaDorah: It never ceases to amaze me. Would you consider second guessing the opinion of your doctor, accountant, lawyer, electrician, or plumber if you don’t have their credentials, education, credentials, or experience? Why then would you question a Rav’s p’sak, one that is clearly in keeping with all poskim – in spirit if not to the letter – that women do not belong in the armed forces, that tzniyus is paramount, that arayus is yeiharaig v’al ya’avor? Do you have any sources for your stated opinion from SHa”S, Rishonim, Achronim, or Poskim? As they say in French, “put up or be quiet.” (Sorry, but it looses something in the translation.)
To no.5.
There are no “male-only” units. The combat and engineering brigades have been integrated for several years . Neither you or Lior have provided a good reason as to why there is an issue for a man to give orders to a woman. There are thousands of frum men who manage businesses and stores with women employees with no problem so why is the army any different?
Gadolhadorah, there is no reason why observant Judaism is not fully 1,000% accommodated in Israel, which is allegedly a Jewish State.
Your post is baffling. Do you really mean to suggest that with all the stories of inappropriate activity that occurs in a simple business-like office, that such activity would not occur in a mixed-gender army unit with life-and-death CH”V stakes and certainly when the man is commanding the woman? And you don’t think this also happens in “every army in the world”?
Do you have something against observant Judaism? Are you, perhaps, so infatuated with Zionism, that like a good post-Jewish Zionist would also do, you have placed this idol worship of Zionism above, lihavdil, our holy Torah?
How is it that a Jew can be against these righteous people trying to hold on to their religion **without compromise**?
If it is assur for women to serve in the IDF it follows that it is assur to give a woman a military command because of lifnei iver. On the other hand, some poskim might want to allow it for pragmatic long-term reasons.
Shuali,
1. Where is there arayot in telling a woman to guard something (for example)?
2. Are you not aware of the fact that there are other poskim who have not yet voiced thir opinions on this specific subject (although Rav Yaakov Ariel stated in general that the IDF Chief Rabbinate is the mara d’atra and therefore its pesakim are what determine the behavior of soldiers in the performance of their duties).
3. As for second-guessing “your doctor, accountant, lawyer, electrician, or plumber “, many people go for second opinions. Of course, if someone asks a rav with the intention of wanting a pesak (as opposed to limud) he cannot do this so for that individual talmid (assuming he wanted a pesak) the matter is closed.
Avi K: They GO for a second opinion, they don’t provide and act on their own opinion. Also, everyone, to the best of my knowledge, accepted the p’sak of the Chazon Ish that the din is yeihareig v’al ya’avor. (The abortion rate in the Israeli army is reported to be the highest in the world. V’hameivin yavin.) What hasn’t been mentioned is that when men and women experience together something as emotional as saving a life (or the death of a comrad), their relationship has changed forever (the real reason, by the way, that Hatzalah does not permit women members). Only a blind or emotionally dead individual would not see the threats to his/her neshamah all around him/her in the military.