In his weekly Motzei Shabbos Drasha, Chacham Yosef said that IDF troops killed in the Second Lebanon War lost their lives because of their lack of religious observance. “Is it a wonder that soldiers who don’t observe the Torah, don’t pray every day and don’t put on tefilin every day are killed in war? It is no wonder.” “Soldiers who are believers and who pray, God helps in wars. They are not killed.”
Sure enough, the outrage started soon after.
Eli Ben-Shem, chairman of the Yad Labanim organization, which represents families of fallen soldiers, called the remarks “shameful” and said that the comments had provoked angry phone calls to the organization, specifically from religious parents who “were hurt very badly.”
Earlier, MK Danny Yatom (Labor) said that he was greatly distressed by the comments which “hurt the bereaved families of those whose dear ones fell while protecting the homeland.” Yatom said that the remarks “only fan the flames of hatred and perpetuate the gaps between haredi Judaism and the rest of the Israeli public. Rabbi Ovadia Yosef would do well to retract his comments.”
Public Security Minister Avi Dichter said that “[The enemy] does not differentiate between the religious and secular members of society,” Dichter told Army Radio. “In my many years of service in the IDF, I witnessed soldiers fall in battle around me; part of whom were religious and observed mitzvoth.”
MK Avshalom Vilan (Meretz) urged him to apologize to the thousands of bereaved families. “A year ago, both religious and secular soldiers were killed in the war while his students were in the tent of Torah without risking their lives. There is a limit to the foolish remarks a rabbi in Israel can make.”
Meretz Chairman Yossi Beilin also expressed his rage at Yosef’s sermon. “Instead of Rabbi Yosef talking nonsense about the links between fulfillment of commandments and falling in battle, it would be better if he were to call those who take his words seriously – the yeshiva students – to join the army.”
MK Zevulun Orlev (NU/NRP) called on religious Zionist rabbis “not to be silent and to voice their disapproval for any attempt to desecrate the sanctity and self-sacrifice of IDF soldiers who fell in the name of God, the people the state and the country.”
Shas Chairman Eli Yishai said that Yosef’s remarks were taken out of context. “The rabbi related to a Gemara, a quote from a time when righteous and God-fearing people used to join the army,” the Shas chairman told Army Radio.
“The rabbi didn’t invent it. He just said that from the Gemara’s point of view, the people of Israel are all responsible for one another. If I sin, it can have an effect on the soldiers,” he added.
Yishai went on to say that Rabbi Ovadia Yosef prayed every day and every Shabbos for the safety of IDF troops.
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32 Responses
Only someone who has heard the entire Drasha (and understood it) should comment on it.
Always keep in mind the zionist press policy of taking any quote out of context to suit their anti-religious agenda.
WHAT??????????????? I can’t believe I’m reading this…To call the Heilig R’ Ovadia Yosef foolish is downright sacrilege…This man is an open Apikoirus…R’ Ovadia is one of the greatest G’dolim today (and I’m not a Sefardi)- he literally is a mouthpiece for Hashem!!!
Also, R’ Ovadia wasn’t saying that every soldier who gets murdered obviously doesn’t davven, put on teffillin, rather that it’s not a surprise that if he doesn’t, he gets killed…
I hope I’ve clarified this matter a bit…
i am sure it was taken out of context. The Satmar Rebbe used to cry when any Israeli soldier was killed. Rav Shach cried when a helicopter went down with Israeli soldiers. To even think that Rav Yosef doesn’t care is foolish. i would likeot see the whole speech.
My lack of doing mitzvos may be the cause that a soldier is hurt. We are all responsible for each other. Just because an individual soldier does mitzvohs,does not GUARANTEE life or safety. Learn T’nach. Before you criticize, fine-tune your own middos and observance.
noitallmr- I think that people need to see or hear the entire drasha before commenting. HOWEVER you commented “To call the Heilig R’ Ovadia Yosef foolish is downright sacrilege…This man is an open Apikoirus…”
Even if you don’t think he should be calling Rav Ovadiah “foolish”, I’m not sure which of the 13 ikarim he violated to make him an apikoreis. I understand that you’re upset, but criticizing a gadol does not make one an apikoreis! Ans that term should be reserved for people who are real apikorsim.
Did you expect any better from meretz?
The gemara in Sanhedren clearly states that one who is mevazeh a Talmid Hochom has a status of an Apikorus and has no portion in Olam Habah.
DRAWKCAB,
according to the gemara in Moed katan, the term apikores is used for those that criticize the gedolim!!!!
An Apikorus, according to Chaza”l includes someone who is Mevazeh a Talmid Chacham. We learn out from : “Ki Dvar Hashem Baza – zeh Hamevazeh Talmidei Chachamim”. If we understand the inextricable link between Torah Shebicsaz and Torah Shebaal Peh and the role of our Talmidei Chachamim in being our interpreters of Torah Shebaal Peh, it follows very clearly.
To: Israeli Yid
You write “There is the well-publicized incident of the officer who jumped on a live grenade to save his soldiers while shouting “Shema Yisrael” – the soldier in question was definitely frum. ”
If someone dies al kidush hashem to save others while saying shma yisrael, does it really matter if he was frum or not? Do you think that his gan eden will be any smaller?
I am sure that R’ Ovadia was reffering to the idea that in a michemes harishus a person should be scared that he may die for his aveirois. I am sure that he cares deeply for every one of the fallen and was not blamimg them
good explanation, Avrumie.
For the record, most Rabonim hold that TODAY there are no TRUE apikorsim, because in these times people are not THAT knowledgable to be able to be DEEMED an apikores!
In previous generations people knew a lot more!
Avrumie: bacha Rebbi v’amar: Yesh kone olamo B’sha’a Achas, v’yesh kone b’shanim rabos.
Check out R’ Chaim Shmuelevitz: What’s to cry about, if you can get your olam so quickly? Answer: There is no question that one is koneh OLAMO, ra’ui for his ma’aseh, b’sha’a achas. But it can in no way compare to the olam acquired by one who works a lifetime on Torah and mitzvos to increase his olam.
So while the kadosh who was moser nefesh to save his comrades is unquestionably mezuman l’chaye olam haba, and a special place yet, a person with a lifetime of kiyum hatorah umitzvos is ablolutely greater. You reap what you sow.
Nameless: to quote an adam gadol, I forget who, I’m sure someone will fill in the name: Nebach an apikorus is oich an apikorus!
As a former member of the IDF i am distressed by this comment as i had frum soldiers under my command that were killed AL Kiddush Hashem (yes)fighting against the cursed terrorists he has made plenty of controversial comments i hope it was out of context as i know many families who must have cried after hearing such statements
On one shabbos someone who was driving got into an accident & was killed. When the Brisker Rov heard about it, he commented that shabbos avenged it’s honor. When questioned about the fact that many people drive on shabbos & don’t drop dead as a result, he replied that many people who smoke don’t die of lung cancer & many who don’t smoke do die as a result of lung cancer. Yet someone who smokes and contracts lung cancer which leads to his death, one can definitely comment that his death was a result of smoking.
Similarly, even people who do keep the torah may get killed in a war & those who don’t may stay alive. Yet one who doesen’t keep the torah & gets killed in battle one can safely say that he died due to his lack of observing the torah.
midwesterner:
compare these two from your words:
“one who works a lifetime on Torah and mitzvos to increase his olam” = dedicated his life to toirah umitzvos shloi lishmah – to increase his olam
“kadosh who was moser nefesh to save his comrades”= gave his life to save other yiden in a war that was to protect eretz yisroel v’ha’am hayoishev oleha. all while saying shma yisroel – the ultimate expression of emunah.
I don’t think that there is anyone who understands cheshboinoi shel mokoim but if I would guess that the second persaon reached a higher level. of course, it could have been, prehaps even higher if inaddition to his mesiras nefesh he would have the benifit of limud hatoirah and mitzvois maasius
I never said al m’nas lekabel pras. That is a whole separate issue. The avoda that one puts in either is or is not with ulterior motives. One can still not compare a lifetime of toil to a momoent, however great that moment is. It is not my words. It is the words of gedolei olam.
A great moment in one person’s life, even if it is greater than any individual moment in another’s, can still not measure up to a lifetime.
(And if you want to get into the sugya of Harugei Lud, that is also related, but deserving of another thread, perhaps.)
dear editor who said that rabbi ovadia said that i dont believe he said that i humbly suggest that you shouldnt print that story w ithout proof one word out of context totaly changes the whole meaning. if it was shabbos who recorded it. The statement doesnt even make sense.rabbi ovadia is a real talmid chacham he would not have said that.
Is it necessary to include
“One MK Calls Him “Foolish””
in the title of this article? It is bad enought that it happened, but putting that in the title only increases the disgrace.
YW Editor: please remove that line from the title.
anyone diagree?
#18 – Yeah, I can see how it is just as obvious that driving on shabbes causes death as much as smoking causes lung cancer. How can anyone deny the validity of that assumption? The Brisker rov said it…how can we argue?
And there is the famous Ness with the Gerrer Rebbe where he was walking with his talmidim on shabbes and the talmidim pointed out people smoking on a balcony…and the Rebbe decreed “The balcony shall collapse”! But then the talmidim said, “But there are ehrlikhe yidden walking to shul under the balcony…so the rebbe said, “ok, the balcony should’nt fall”! And it DIDN’T fall!!
Adar2, Appleguy and Shlome:
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think that we pasken like either of those. (although I’m not aware of the Gemara in Moed Katan) A maamer chazal is according to ONE opinion (the tanna or amora who made the statement) but we don’t pasken like all of them l’maaseh. Therefore if one criticizes a gadol, although it might not be a good idea, I’m pretty sure deeming one an “apikoreis” is wrong.
Remember “Chachamim hizaru b’divreichem”
Please remove number 25. he is being mezalzel b’talmiedie chachomim and by his name he is saying that he is not frum.
though i agree that we should never associate punishment with what a person does. The things that chazal say ralted to those issues is made for a person himself. not for others. How many times do we say that “an ehrliche yungerman died. how can it happen?” do you really think that that yungerman never was nichshal in an aveirah whos oinesh is cories (v”dal) what about when a child dies rachmana litzlan, why dont we say that the father did something that chazal say causes a child to die? would any of us dare to say something like that – chas vsholom. we assume, correctlt that hashem is a chanun vrachum and orgives us and everyoine else. the stastement that chazal said is for everyone to apply to themsleves only.
#16 It was said by R’ Chaim Soloveitzik, the son on the Bais Halevi
drawcab it is brought LIHALACHA in YD158:2 in Bais Yosef, Darkei Moshe, and Shach, and 242:6 in SA. Chachomim hizaharu bidivrechem.
Thank you baki for pointing that out I will look it up later. However, Avrumie, don’t accuse me of being mezalzel talmidei Chachamim. All I said was that to the best of my knowledge, the statements of Chazal were not cited l’halacha. (I will check the mekomos mentioned by Baki.) Not every maamer chazal is brought l’halacha. My point was that before we tag somebody with a label of apikoreis we better be 100% positive that our attribution is warranted.
I’m not sure why people aren’t makpid on that…
Chazal, Aggaditah etc. are never used for halachik decisions.
Drawkab: Avrumie was referring to a comment that has already (thankfully) been deleted by the editor. After that was removed, your comment moved up one notch. It was Mevaze the Brisker Rav, and although I argued with Avrumie further up on this thread, I agree wholeheartedly with his request and thank the editor for removing it.
drawkcab:
I am sorry. I was reffering to post #24
To drawkcab #29 & 25, Avrumie was not making this comment to you, he was reffering to # 26 whose sign on name is listed as Oncefrum, if you would have read the whole paragraph you would have noticed that he was not referring to you but to # 24. Zei Gezunt A Ksiva v’chasima Tova
Point for everyone to know, investigate before assuming someone is accusing you.
All the best.
Avrumie, I apologize. I was unaware. Sorry. Los Angeles Yid thanks for the clarification!