Yeshivaworld has just been informed by a Misaskim spokesman, that people who have a New York State Drivers License (or ID) should make sure that on the back of their license the “organ doner” boxes are not checked accidentally. Misaskim told Yeshivaworld that people have accidentally checked those boxes and filled out information, and should have that corrected with the DMV as soon as possible.
By having the info written, it becomes extremely unavoidable to prevent organ donation after death R”L.
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30 Responses
Why is it ok to accept an organ but not to donate!!
It is OK to donate an organ while alive to someone who is in immediate need (I know, I got one!).
jewish law is one must have his whole body buried after he passes away, thats why you cant donate an organ.
Mumzer,
Nice of you to try lobbing a grenade.
I don’t think this is the venue for a discussion of the various halachic [and extra-halachic] positions on transplants. Certainly you concede that everyone should consult a qualified, competent and halachically-knowledgable Rav before making a decision on this issue.
In any case, having that box checked without qualification can lead to a situation where non-halcahic criteria can be used to declare death resulting in the halachic murder of the donor[i.e., a person who is alive according to ALL halachic opinions may, in practice, be declared medically dead for the purpose of organ harvesting].
To the editor:
Why is your website putting questions that are are posed in such a wording, that it implies that Torah Sh’baal peh is lo min hashamayim. Questions are good, depending how that they are asked. this is notr the forum to print all of the apikorses in everyone’s mind.
R’ Moshe Tendler has stated that an organ which will save a life may be donated, and even must be donated by the deceased. However, it is not so simple as checking the organ donor box on your drivers’ license. Doing so will, as Art says, permit doctors to ignore halacha in determining death. Further, they will take non-vital organs, which is prohibited by halacha. There is also a chance that one’s organs will go to an organ bank instead of directly to a dying individual, which again, halacha prohibits. Talk to your rav! Organ donation is a great mitzvah if one does it right.
Feivy L.,
You’re right, except that pikuach nefesh means i can (and should) violate anything in the Torah in order to save someone’s life, except GA, SD, and AZ. If a family can donate organs and save someone’s life, does it not follow that kavod hameis is nidcheh??
It is correct that you shouldn’t check your driver’s license so that you can make sure that your organs are donated in a halachic manner, but it is permitted and probably a chiyuv!
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To all those who are not smart enough to understand what this post is referring to:
If someone is god forbid killed in a car accident, they have the right to remove your organs before releaing the body to the Chevra Kadisha.
Get it?
Noone is saying that someone should not donate a kidny to another person in need.
This is talking about after death.
If you donate an organ in New York (as this article is referring too), it is likely to be given to a non-Jew, so there will be no heter of Pikuach Nefesh.
I don’t believe a deceased individual can specify that an organ be donated to a specific person in New York.
Can you take an organ from a non-Jew? Is a goy’s tum’ahdike heart good enough to be in your body? If you don’t donate organs, then there will be less organs to save Jews. If your organ goes to a non-Jew, it will move a Jew up on the list closer to getting an organ. Joseph, you must be one of those people on the street who, when he sees someone on the street having a heart attack on Shabbos, wastes time deciding if it’s a Jew before calling the ambulance. Then, if it turns out if he’s a Jew and he dies, the time you wasted could mean the difference between life and death. I think that any member of Hatzolah could tell you how wrong you are-my understanding is that Hatzolah responds to non-Jewish calls on Shabbos.
Good luck to you if you’re ever the guy on the street having a heart attack chas v’shalom, or in need of an organ transplant chas v’shalom.
Ya! G-d forbid you might save someones life.
If you are gonna post something like this, how about phrasing it a little more respectful? Maybe explain any details or other opinions from various Gedolim.
This is not such a simple halacha and the way this post is written suggests a panic that a possibly life saving thing would be some sort of bad thing.
How about more education and less panic on issues.
ehrlichnotfrum, you are neither ehrlich nor frum. My point is fully backed by Daas Torah. If you have an issue with it, take it up with Daas Torah.
If you are not sure if it may be a Yid, you may be Mechalel Shabbos to save the persons life. You do not need to hesitate to determine if it is or not. If you know it is a shaigetz, you may not be Mechalel Shabbos.
As far as organ donation, you may not donate an organ to a shaigetz. You may accept one though. If you don’t like it, lump it. Azoi huben gepaskened inzer chachomim.
Regarding organ donation, I am referring to a niftar.
15, re 13. Indeed. Even if you know the person is a non-Jew, you are REQUIRED to be Mechalel Shabbos, mishum eivah.
shazam, If you now the victim is non-Jewish, you cannot violate Shabbos Kodesh.
That is halacha. Now, if there are extenuating circumstances, that may change the equation. But by default, that is the law.
#15, I find the original comments very illuminating. They are on the button al pi halacha.
In fact, I find your response troubling. If you don’t agree with halacha, don’t blame it on the messenger.
I’d be very wary of following yu’s shita, especially Rabbi Tendler’s considering his hostile history.
devorah, you seem to be in overdraft, as a Torah opinion (as expressed by the comments you quoted) must be respected, whether you like it or agree with it or not.
Mishum Eivah is not agreed to by all poskim. Many poskim hold if there is no Pekuach Nefesh to Yisroel, there is no heter.
Even when Mishum Eivah applies, it often only applies in a circumstance where they may kill yidden if the yid doesn’t service them on Shabbos.
Mishum Eivah is not a universally agreed heter. It is universally agreed, that it is assur to be Mechalel Shabbos for a goy.
A person. It’s assur, or it’s mutar to be Mechalel Shabbos for a non-Jewish person. Keep calling them shaigetz and goy, so you can pretend that they aren’t human beings created b’tzelem Elokim.
There are many heterim-go read Igros Moshe O.H. IV:79 and tell me again that it’s assur to be mechalel shabbos for a non-Jew.
And you wonder why they hate us.
enotfrum, Eisev Sonah L’Yaakov. You cannot deny or change halacha to make the goyim like you.
Yes there are some heterim, but the basic halacha is still halacha l’maaseh. b’tzelem Elokim is true, but doesn’t change the din.
I don’t think that Dvorah is necessarily arguing with Joseph’s interpretation of the halacha. There is a way of saying something that shows respect for those in which one is engaged in dialogue. That respect is not evident from Joseph’s manner of speaking.
Every day my husband tells me to stop reading the comments on this site! No one talks as a frum person should, with respect and dignity. The controversial topics may help get advertising for theyeshivaworld.com, but they sure don’t help people develop better middos.
I think most of this problem is caused by anonymity, when people think they can say what they want because no one is sure who they are. You wouldn’t talk to your neighbor like this. As you can see, I prefer not to remain anonymous.
I still find the news postings useful, however.
Have a lovely Shabbos.
Eisav Soneh L’Yaakov is not halacha, it’s aggadah.
Sorry that you think that R’ Moshe ztz”l is not good enough daas Torah for you to rely on for halacha l’maaseh. I love how the people on this board think that when R. Moshe assured an eruv in Manhattan, it was l’dorei doros, but when he says you should save a non-Jew’s life on Shabbos you dismiss it as a one-time heter.
enotfrum, you are playing with semantics. You are still just as wrong as before.
No one said Eisav Soneh L’Yaakov is halacha. Listen carefully before talking. And Reb Moshe paskened a heter on a case by case basis. He was never matir Chillul Shabbos on a widespread basis to save a nochri.
Norma, In defense of the Joseph, he was responding to an uncalled for personal attack on him by ehrlichnotfrum who maliciously said that he wouldn’t help a Yid who had a heart attack. (And then continued with “good luck” if a heart attack occurred…) So the problem was ehrlichnotfrum’s smear comment.
enotfrum, so you’re from the Reb Moshe’s psak on the Eruv is batul crowd? What changed since Reb Moshe’s psak? Did Manhattan Island shrink?
Ed,
What is your evidence that R’ Moshe was not paskening for the olam in that teshuva? If he didn’t want to publish the teshuva, he didn’t have to. You must explain to me how, if it is the case that it’s assur to be mechalel shabbos to save a vadai nochri, Haztolah units all over the world, with guidance from gedolim, does so on a weekly basis? Even if it is only mishum eivah, l’maaseh they are mechalel Shabbos to save non-Jews.
Volvie,
You have a strange way of understanding a “personal attack.” Please show me how my comment was personal, and for that matter, what I said that was untrue. If a Jew needs a heart transplant, they will have to wait just like everyone else until one is available. He will not have the luxury of waiting for someone to be in a car accident an hour before he needs it, so that the person’s rav can pasken that this is a mutar situation of pikuach nefesh so that he can have the heart. The fact remains that donating organs directly increases the chances that Jews on waiting lists will receive the organ transplants that they need.
Joseph,
I said no such thing, I was simply pointing out the inconsistency. There are numerous reasons how someone might put up an eruv in manhattan while keeping within R. Moshe’s psak, but this is not the place for that discussion (there is a website called Eruv Online that discusses it). There is also the matter of the other two gedolim of the Lower East Side, R. Henkin ztz”l and R. Oshry ztz”l, who both supported an eruv in Manhattan. R. Moshe was not the only posek in Manhattan, and as was posted on this site regarding the gezera against concerts, people are supposed to follow their Rav, even if a gadol hador paskens otherwise.
sammygol, read the topic carefully. It is about organ donations, not driving licenses (essentially). So the topic is on, and the commentators are correct.
And if you happen to disagree with anyones point, instead of denigrating them as being “semi-ignorant”, give us your point — assuming you have anything useful to add.
ehrlichnotfrum, You’re first comment regarding Reb Moshe indicated you don’t believe the pask applied “l’dorei doros.” So I asked you what changed since the psak that would render Reb Moshe’s psak currently invalid.
If you follow another Daas Torah than Reb Moshe, kol hakoved. (I know Rav Oshry was a big Tzaddik.)
Charlie, halachic conversations (like any conversation) can flow into other areas.
If you aren’t aware of any other posek, obviously no other posek exists, right? Afterall… you are not aware of it.
Halacha takes precedance over any observant doctor’s professional ethics. But aside from that, you are wrong. Because if a doctor is off from work (as he is on Shabbos), he is not required by any ethics to come to work on Shabbos — since it is his day off. AND since there are other Doctor’s (99% of the time) who are capable of doing what the patient needs that day.
Which brings the point; since there are other qualified physicians who can assist the non-Jewish patient, what is the necessity for the Jew to be Mechalel Shabbos Kodesh to do so? Let another non-Jewish physician assist the patient.
Since you state that you probably don’t know what the currently accepted halachah is today, obviously you are applying that same principal to yourself.