155 Responses

1. I think the problem is that we are so busy blaming the “system” for the shidduch crisis (the Yeshivas, the ROshei Yeshivas, the Bais Yaakovs, and on and on), that we forget that much of time the problem lies with the boy and girl (and their parents) and their expectations and mishigasim.

   When you hear stories about 28 year old girls who won’t listen to a shidduch for frivolous reasons (too tall, too short, too old, too young, wants to learn for 5 years instead of 4, or 4 years instead of 5), and you wonder why she’s still not married at 28? Same with the boys (which is in many case worse, how many 30 year olds are still looking for an 18 year old girl straight out of seminary? Face the facts, you are 30 and should marry a girl who is 26-29, even if the shidduch was already redd to you 7 years ago. Grow up!).

   The key is to be REALISTIC with yourselves and your kids.

2. Very well put.

   IMHO, there is a direct correlation between the age of a single and his or her open-mindedness/flexibility.

3. thanks for the post, in the business world, from a hishtadlus point of view, it is said that ‘sales’ is a numbers game – the more ‘feelers’ you put out, the more sales you make. the same would hold true (from hishtadlus point of view) in shidduchim, the more boys-dating-girls that are setup, should produce and show more hashgocha/shidduchim. While some dates are such ‘bombs’ that turn boys or girls off, they should be educated up front not to get turned off or to sterotype any group, type or Yeshiva, and when considering ANY shidduch they should remember another axiom – ‘never say never’

4. May H-shem bless you with Kol Tuv, as your sincere desire to do His will is evident. Would you care to publicize your phone number, so that those that are SERIOUSLY looking for Shidduchim can contact you?

   To Y.W. editor: Great letter! Thanks for printing it. Perhaps you can have a section with listings of Shadchanim and their specialties- Mainstream, Older, Divorced/Widowed, Disabilities… and so on. Many would benefit.

5. Emes, emes. Parents, boy and girls are being overly picky on trivial things like first names, age, if they like fleishigs or milchigs… it’s ridiculous. I have friends and relatives that are in the upper 20’s that say no to a shidduch for, in my opinion, things that are narish. The first mitzvah in the Torah is pru u’revu… you’d think that it being the first it’s probably the easiest, it’s probably the hardest as it’s the gateway to being mekayem kol haTorah kulah and kiyum ha’olam (umulu es ha’aretz). As the author writes, everyone needs to open their eyes and wake up! This is not the movies where slow music plays when “you meet the right one”. You need to figure out what will make you happy and enable to to be mekayam the ratzon HaBoreh Y”S.

   My wife and I have become extremely discouraged when redting shidduchim but we continue to do it as the zechus for making even one shidduch is extremely great.

6. I agree 100%. I have had the same experience when trying to redd shidduchim. Then when a Rosh Yeshiva, Rov, or experienced shadchan redds the same shidduch they listen. Go figure. People should listen on the merit of the match-not the shadchan.

7. I think you bring about some wonderful points. I, myself, feel that sometimes people are just a bit too picky – especially before they even meet someone. If ALMOST everything you hear about a prospective shidduch is good, then it has to be worth at least one date. As far as you being put off by some, remember, many of us are extremely lacking in kovod habriyos and derech eretz (for those of you who plan to argue with me, please spare me; you know exactly how lacking we are). Keep up the good work for those who DO appreciate your efforts. May you have much Mazel in your endeavors. Kesiva Vachasima Tova.

8. my wife and i went to reb chiam brim several years ago and my wife asked for a brocho for a friend and he said without hesitation that she missed her basherte. well maybe she did but she is now married with a family perhaps hes not her basherte (first zivug).

9. Reb Feif Un – Are you suggestng that Rav Shach, zt”l said that marring an older girl means you aren’t marrying your bashert. Who says the Bas Kol mentions only people born already? And further more, is the Bas Kol only by boys and not girls? And even if the Bas Kol is only by boys, when does the Bas kol take place, if it’s right after conception, the baby’s gender isn’t decide yet, until 40 days. Perhaps Rav Shach was simply saying in general as the Steipler was well known to have said, that a person has more then one bashert and if a person is too choosy they can pass up their ideal bashert. Bisoros Tovos!

10. As someone who has made Shidduchim, I understand the writers frustration. I once called to redt a Shidduch to a 25 year old boy. The mother said, unless you can tell me something extra special about the girl I have no interest.

11. people need to be more than just a drop more open minded. parents need to remember that it’s their children getting married, not them, and families don’t necessarily have to be exactly the same.showing some hakaras hatov would be nice as well.

12. Similar [actual] comments when trying to ‘red’ a shiduch:
    -the 21 yr old girl is too old for the 24 yr old boy, he needs an 18 yr old
    -they are ‘stackers’
    -they use plastic dishes
    -she’s waiting for the next godal hadoar!
    -he’s not educated enough

    Are we just being too picky??

13. For every story of the bachur who “passed” on his shidduch, there are more stories of gedolim who said if someone gives a reason, albeit what seems to you a “petty” one, it is okay because obviously there is something off on the shidduch. As someone who is also a frustrated shadchan (made a few, but sometimes get weird no’s from the chevra) and someone who knows the other side of the coin, the single’s mindset, let me explain: singles are the most maligned, least respected and most abused within our community. If someone is an Akara, no one sits next to them at a Chasuna or in a public forum claiming it is their own fault. There are plenty of folks who have emotional, physical or spiritual baggage that they DON’T have to share with you or me as Shadchanim. They know themselves – as long as they have a rav guiding them, it is not our right to judge them for their no’s – or to delve to know the reason why. I know folks who have been abused and therefore need a specific type of guy, but when they ask Shadchanim to only set them up with that type of guy, they get flak. I know folks who can’t have children, who ask to be set up with specific criteria of the other spouse having kids, etc, but who get flak for that. Lo Alecha HaMlacha Ligmor – you are not doing the Shidduchim, Hakadosh Baruch Hu is and sometimes, when you and I are lucky, G-d allows us to be involved in moving His plan along. But we are never to think we are G-d and able to judge!

14. Hi,
    I am what you might a professional shadchan. I work with all age groups but concentrate mainly on singles ages 25-35. My response to the writer is this: ignore the closed minded ones and save your time and energy for the open minded ones. If a girl age 25 says that a 29 year old is too old for her, then she not the person you want to be giving your time and energy to. There are plenty of open minded singles whom I meet every day that I feel are going about it the right way , and those are the ones I choose to work with.
    As for the others, they will have to come around on their own , perhaps by the influence of their friends and families or by the realization that they are not getting younger and they better reconsider they strategy for dating.

    I always say to the singles that have their specific criteria and their individual hang-ups: as long as your system of operation gets you where you are trying to get in life, your fine. and if it isn’t , you might consider changing it.

    But, by no means is there a larger obligation on a shadchan or the community towards a particular single person or their familly just because they decided to label themselves as “picky” or “selective” or “better” or “exclusive”.

    Hope this sheds some light on the matter.

15. Excellent article! So much truth over hear. I hope people will wake up and come to their senses!

16. I have read your remarks and have another comment to make I call the shadchan every week and either get the answering machine or if by some sheer chance I do get to speak to the shadchan they say can you please call back in 10 minutes when I call back I get the answering machine. If you ar willing to help then Help. If you are willing to talk to us mothers please give us your info

17. I have a number of children and have unfortunately been in the shidduch parsha for a far longer time than average. Your efforts are greatly appreciated but you need to be aware of a number of things.

    Item a. Many shidduchim are red without any knowledge of the shaychus of the shidduch and many times without any knowledge of the party being red. Some people make a heikesh of old to old and all other issues are ignored. People who have been in the parsha for a long time are suffering and beaten down. Much of the problem is due to being red shidduchim that on an absolute scale are far below the person’s level on any number of grounds. Pursuing a shidduch that is very likely klutz with boidem can be demeaning. If the shidduchim make some sort of sense then they certainly should be investigated. However, it doesn’t make sense that someone should pursue a shidduch without any reason or logic no less than one would expend time on a business proposition that doesn’t make sense. Otherwise, it is abnormal hishtadlus and a possible lack of bitachon.

    B. Older people in shidduchim are forced to consider shidduchim with qualities they would never have considered in their wildest dreams in normal circumstances (lack of intelligence, lack of accomplishment, divorce, widowed, totally different and incompatible family background, huge age gaps, physical or mental deficiencies) and their ego may be shattered. Although it is true that many are not reasonable in their reason for rejecting shidduchim, it may be due to an overreaction to protecting their self esteem or there may be some of the other factors that they can’t admit to rejecting.

    In general, the priorities for shidduchim that are projected by our society and schools do not represent Torah attitudes. For example, the emphasis on academic accomplishment for girls is overdone. Changes are needed in the Hashkafa for shidduchim at all the educational levels.

    Item C. As indicated above, shidduchim that don’t make any logical sense are counterproductive. Otherwise, it’s a big mitzva and hatzlacha rabba.

18. Great article and very worthy comments, Is it possible for the Shadchonim here to leave an email adress somewhere in case someone abroad is lookinG for a shidduch?

    There are many singles in Europe who want to remain here but dont know much about whats going on
    abroad, it would be of great help for them to have some contact with Shadchonim

19. Himmelstein: Gut gezukt! read your comment twice

20. and a p.s.
    A rebbetzin in Lakewood once explained to a Shadchan this concept: Penina, when she needled Chana, had the best of intentions – she wanted to get Chana to daven for kids. However, because she inflicted pain on one who was suffering, she lost all her children. Being a Shadchan gives no one the right, even for the best of intentions, to cause pain to those already suffering with the Nisayon of being single.

21. In asking around I have heard the same comments as the author from people more into the parsha then myself. One “alter bucher” didn’t have the decency to call me back (for a 2nd time)regarding an idea (a good on at that) I put forth. Won’t call him anymore, tell you that much.

22. Don’t get me wrong, I think most shadchanim are true Gomlei Chassadim, and are totally and selflessly devoted to making the lives of others better. But perhaps some shadchanim should be a little more sensitive to the feelings of older singles. Sure, to you it’s a no-brainer. What’s one date? No big deal, right? So some of you pressure and pressure us for just one date. For those who have dated 200+ girls, it’s not so simple. We are completely burned out and frustrated by the dating system that just does not seem to work for us. It’s mentally and physically exhausting to just go out again and again with the same result. They all sound exactly the same. It’s like they give out a form in seminary telling people what to say about someone else. So no, I don’t think it’s crazy for someone in that position to look for something special, for something that sticks out differently than every other name that comes in. Perhaps the result will be different if it sounds different. Just remember, Al Taadin es chavercha at shatagiya limkomam.

23. Yasher koach to all the the shadchan who wrote as well as many of the commenters.

    I once read a op-ed type piece by an “older single” who decried the frequent suggestion “just go out on one date” or “give a shidduch a chance”. She argued that dates required too much physical and emotional energy to “waste” on anyone who didn’t meet her criteria.

    How many of us are married to someone who didn’t meet our criteria? How many of us are married to someone we even turned down initially? No one wants marriages taking place between completely incompatible people, but to all the singles and their parents who “know” what they need: Many of us who are happily married to individuals whom we “knew” wouldn’t be for us!

24. As someone who is also not a professional shadchan but involved in
    shidduchim for a number of years and B”H very matzliach, I have to agree
    fully with this letter. Many people I know who were amazing “volunteer”
    shadchanim have stopped because they were so burnt out.

    Honestly, most of the “older singles” from FFB homes are older by choice –
    either their choice or their parents. In other words, they are being too
    picky about stupid things. I believe everyone should prioritize, but some
    things are just out of hand. Like a 35 year old girl who went to Bais Yaakov
    and won’t date a boy who is a redhead. I can’t help such girls, and no one
    I know will. And then the parents cry that there is a shidduch crisis. The
    crisis is that kids are being raised with the wrong priorities in
    shidduchim. They expect to marry someone without a flaw. Bottom line – if
    he seems perfect that just means you don’t know everything about him yet.

    Volunteer shadchanim often make dozens of phone calls before they even get
    to a “yes” from a boy, only to call a girl and hear her say, “Hmm, it just
    doesn’t sound matim.” Without any further descriptions. Girls and their
    parents complain that it’s a boy’s market. I have tons of great boys who
    are so frustrated by the girls who turn them down for something irrelevant.
    Sometimes it is reversed. Like a boy who is 31 and wouldn’t date a girl
    because her father didn’t have a beard (“That must mean they are not
    yeshivish enough”). True story.

    Parents should sit down with their single son/daughter once a year and
    review their “must have” list, and determine whether everything on there is
    really a priority or some things really could be taken off the list. It’s
    not compromising – it’s just changing priorities. A 30 year old single girl
    cannot and should not have the same priorities as she did when she was 20
    and single.

25. yes, but there is an element of misusing the shidduch process by pressuring people who are not for each other to go out. Do you know how painful rejection can be? Now take a shlemiel and suggest a gelungene. Shlemiel will be crushed more when rejected. Gelungene will end up feeling rejected by you for even thinking of this. both can be emotionally hurt. besides for which, as one girl so aptly told me, “I hate getting all dressed up and pretty and going out with someone else’s husband.” which is what is happening — if you set up folks who make no sense for each other and ask them to show their best side, which they end up having to do for mentchlikeit, as they know the other one is not for them, it is quite gross, thinking they are sitting having personal conversation with someone who won’t be their spouse.

26. C.W., while there is no doubt that things like that occur, to generalize and lump “most” older singles together into that group is very wrong and offensive.

27. A few points:

    Never forget to give Shadchones. It is the most deserved reward. I know a case where a couple didnt have children for a while, they went to a Rebbe for a Brocho. He asked if they didnt award the Shadchan they shouldd do it instantly. They did and they were helped.

    Its sad that there are so many older singles. As a shadchan once said when someone inquired the age of agirl, she rep;lied’ she can hear music already, she is passed the SHLOSHIM’ lol.
    But seriously, I think the Chassidisher way is the best. The youth get marry young, their parents check out the families, the two people meet, no marathon dates , no constant meeting between the pair before the wedding.
    How many shiduchim RL are broken because of stupid nit picking duringthe engagement? People would never divorce once they are married for ridiculous things. A bit of Seyata Dishmaya and encourgement from parents will solve a lot of problems.

28. Not every ‘shadchan’means well for the young ancouple.There is a lot of personal pride also. People who just put two togeter and don.t think of the efffects a ‘forced’shidduch will have on a couple for the next few years. They have to be able to live together and be a family for the rest of their lives” Some shadchonim are only interested in getting it done,but not caring about the families’individual feelings. Boys today are told that getting a job,which requires a secular education is wrong. When it comes to raising a family,they can’t provide so the young lady is expected to work,besides shop,cook,clean,have babies,and nurture the children. Men are too alloof from that. Attitudes will have to change so boys will get a good secular as well as Torah education.Not all families can afford to raise their grandchildren.and children-in-laws.Not every ben-Torah is a baal middos and not every regular baal habayis is an am ho oretz.

29. nameless – it is not true that the chassidish way works. I have on my list of those who need shidduchim countless boys. no generalizations are good, but the trend seems to be that litvishe girls and chassidish boys have the harder time in the shidduch crisis scene. (my sister opines that it is a sure sign from Heavens that the there should be “intermarriages” between chassidim and non). again, shadchanim who are complaining of the reasons they are getting, perhaps are not understanding that there might be other reasons not stated that are hidden behind the stated one. And again, the judgement is sounding through loud and clear – its all their own fault, these singles. Then, Hakadosh Baruch Hu turns the tables and it is their own family in the same predicament…
    If you are redting a shidduch l’shem Shamayim, you know that with any Mitzva, you don’t have to accomplish it, just try your best to do it.
    and if you all think it is an elementary matter to match folks up, girl meets boy and settles for each other, why then are we told that all Hakadosh Baruch Hu is busy with since Briyas Ha’Olam is making shidduchim? Perhaps you want to tell G-d also that He should make the couples “settle” for each other randomly?

30. I never said there should be no ‘intermarriage’ between litvacks and Chassidim. My point is that their way is more modest and more serious. Theses shleppy dates and constant mingling during engagement periods are just not healthy.

31. People are making a mistake about the concept of Bashert.

    Bashert doesn’t mean that no matter what you do you will ultimately end up with that person. You can miss this person as mentioned above.

    Bashert may not mean gloriously happy. It means the one that Hashem has planned for your benefit which may involve pain and tikkun hamidos and not the most pleasant situation.

    If one bypasses their Bashert does this mean that life is over for them? Just like Hashem does not give up on us if we make mistakes of other kinds, Hakadosh Baruch Hu is always a maitiv and provides other opportunities for marriage and otherwise.

32. # 18, I could have written that myself, same situation. I would also like to add that what a shadchan thinks is a phenomenal idea, may be far from it in the parents’ opinion. I know of an amazing girl from a great wholesome family that was redt to a boy with a severe deformity. And then you wonder why we don’t call back etc. How many insults can one person take? There are those shadchanim that sit and yell at the mothers that they are being too picky and get all heated up, but when it comes to their own children suddenly they won’t listen to anything other than what they decided their child deserves. Being a shadchan is a tremendous zechus if you do it with the right intentions and proper middos. I know of a shadchan who made an almana cry with her nasty comments and the same shadchan told another mother that her son did a nice shidduch only because the girl was short so they were willing to take her son. Shadchanim, just think before you shoot things out of your mouth. They can be daggers at an already broken heart.

33. Years ago I had a roommate who was a BT. He had grown up frei and when he turned 30 he found himself in a yeshiva in Israel where he stayed for ten years catching up on his heritage. He returned to the US at 40+ and began looking for wife. He spent several years following ‘leads’ but to no avail. His issue was he wanted a fresh-from-the-seminar girl (18-22). He would not accept the fact he was 20 years their senior and they were not interested. He drove shadchans absolutely nuts. I married and moved way and lost touch but I still wonder sometimes if he ever found his basherte. As people mention above, sometime one must set a realistic goal in life. No one wants to ‘settle’ for less then perfect but the reality is we all have some flaws and we must remember that our ultimate goal is to create a bayis ne’eman b’yisrael and THAT is what should be at the forefront of our thoughts as we consider the latest ‘offer’ from the shadchan.

34. TO GEMARAHKOP
    WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY OF MATERIALISTIC SO INORDER
    TO BE REALISTIC(materialistic comes before alphabetically) u got to go down that road

35. I think that the parents should let their daughters/sons go out even if they think that the shidduch isn’t so ‘tzugepast’. You really never know where the shidduch can come from. These parents arent agreeing to the shidduch because of silly reasons (most of the time!)If people would be a little more open about taking a daughter/son in law who is from a different backround (i.e. haimish, litvish…)than they are, then i think it wouldnt be such a problem.

36. here’s a story about the problem, you can print it if you want. It was published in my book, Bridging the Golden Gate:

    A Lost Chance

    I once heard of an older bachur who asked a leading rabbi, “Rabbi, when will I find my bashert, my destined one?”

    The rabbi’s answer was sharp and very much to the point. “You found her, but you rejected her.”

    The following story, sadly enough, is true.

    When Shmuel showed up at our door Friday afternoon, I realized that something was wrong. Shmuel is an old family friend. He lost his wife several years ago and often spends Shabbos with us. Although he was putting on a brave act, we had been friends too many years to be fooled. He was upset about something.

    It wasn’t until much later, after the children were in bed and the table cleared, that we finally had a chance to really talk. I knew how lonely Shmuel was; he often spoken to us about that. Although his children visited several times a week, most of the time he was alone, desperately searching for ways to fill the endless, empty hours.

    Retired, he spent most of the day studying with a chavrusa in a nearby beis medrash. But he dreaded returning at the end of each day to an empty house, where he would somehow have to cook a nutritious meal – for one — in a spotlessly clean, barren kitchen.

    About a year ago, Shmuel told us that he was interested in remarriage, and asked us if we knew of anyone suitable. Shmuel is a kohen, and it is therefore forbidden for him to marry a divorcee. I knew of no unmarried girls or widows that might fit the bill.

    “Any new marriage prospects?” I asked, assuming — and rightly so — that that was what was bothering him tonight.

    “I found the right girl, but it’s not going to work.” Shmuel then proceeded to tell us the following story.

    “About half a year ago,” Shmuel began, “I bumped into an old acquaintance, Lorraine. We were together at Hebrew University, over forty years ago.

    “Of course we started talking, and I mentioned to her that my wife had passed away. She was surprised at how orthodox I had become, but recalled that even then I had had quite a religious bent.

    “While I was studying at the university, I became very close to one particular girl, Chana. We had talked about marriage, and although we were never officially engaged, it was understood that we would eventually become husband and wife. One day, however, Chana just disappeared, and as much as I tried, I was never able to find her. I finally decided to forget about her and got on with my life, thank God.

    “I recalled that Chana and Lorraine were from the same Midwestern town, and was just about to ask about her, when Lorraine asked, ‘Do you remember your old girlfriend, Chana?’

    “’Of course,’ I replied. ‘How is she?’

    “‘I think you should call her. She never married. I really can’t understand why. I am sure that she would be thrilled to speak with you.’

    “The next day I rushed home from the beis medrash to call her. She was flabbergasted to hear from me; so many years had passed. She had also become much more religious, and we spent several hours catching up on the last four decades of our lives. She was living in New York, had an excellent job as a speech therapist, and had worked her way up the professional ladder. Between administrating some type of a program and consulting privately in the evenings, she was extremely busy.

    “But as successful as she had been in her professional life, her private life was a disaster. Several years earlier, she had been diagnosed with cancer and had spent a number of weeks undergoing chemotherapy, followed by radiation treatment.

    “She told me how jealous she had been of the other woman in her room, with her constant stream of visitors. Although Chana’s friends came to visit, most of the time there had been no one there to comfort her. ‘I was petrified of dying without anyone at my side,’ she told me candidly.”

    I listened to the story and wiped away a tear. I had recently spent a few weeks in the hospital, and my family had remained at my side around the clock. I felt grateful for what I had, and pitied Chana for being so alone.

    “We spoke on the phone every day, and our relationship continued to develop. Somehow, the house did not seem so empty anymore.” Shmuel paused for a few moments to gather his thoughts. “One day I received a letter, containing a photo with a short note. ‘Are you still interested in meeting this woman?’ it said.

    “I was shocked. Forty years ago, Chana had been a young, vibrant girl. Today –- well –- the picture she sent me was of a woman with wrinkled skin and crow’s feet around the eyes. If I hadn’t known that it was her, I would have never recognized her. Of course, I’ve also grown a bit older over the years,” he smiled, “but it is shocking to see such a drastic change in another person. But I was still interested in continuing the relationship.

    “We arranged to meet, and I flew to New York to spend a few weeks with her. What can I tell you? We hit it off perfectly. It wasn’t long before we started discussing marriage. After all,” he laughed, “at my age one really can’t afford to wait too long.

    “But I was in for a shock.” Shmuel had to pause for a few moments to organize his thoughts before he could continue.

    “‘Shmuel,’ Chana began, ‘although I feel close to you and enjoy every moment that I am with you, I cannot marry you.’

    “’Why not?’ I asked, dumbfounded. Everything had seemed perfect.

    “’I’m a professional,’ she explained. ‘And I earn a lot of money. I cannot marry a man who earns less than I do.’

    “’But I have enough money put aside for us to live comfortably for the rest of our lives,’ I argued. ‘What difference does it really make?’

    “’I know that I’ll never be able to fully respect a man who earns less than I do. I have a very prestigious job, and I’ve worked my way up the ladder of success. You’re retired after spending years running a yeshiva office. It would be a step down for me to marry a man like that, a man who had never made it in the professional world. I just can’t bring myself to do such a thing.’

    “’But Chana,’ I argued, ‘if you were ill, would I come to visit you in the hospital?’

    “’Shmuel,’ she replied, her eyes filling with tears, ‘of course you would be there for me. I know you well, and you would stay with me day and night. You wouldn’t leave me for a moment.’

    “’Isn’t that worth something?’ I asked. I wanted to show her that marriage is built on devotion, loyalty, love — things far more meaningful than a paycheck and a prestigious job.

    “’Yes, that is worth a lot –- an awful lot, more than I can imagine. But as much as I care for you, and would like to marry you, I can’t. I can’t bring myself to marry a man who earns less than I do.’

    “And that was the last time I saw her. She’s not young. She’s close to sixty. I still care for her –- deeply — and I hope that someday she’ll find that perfect man. I really do. I want her to find happiness, although it is already much too late for her to build a family. But for some reason, I doubt if she ever will.

    “Anyway, that’s why I came here this Shabbos. I just couldn’t face the emptiness; the loneliness. I had to be with friends.”

    After hearing Shmuel’s story, there was really little that either my husband or I could say. I quickly finished cleaning up and retired for the night.

    The next morning, my children were surprised at how hard I hugged them.

37. I have many single friends and I feel it is wrong to blame them for not being married, they live with enough guilt. Some of the commnets that were written are true and honest, but some are nasty. It is wrong to jugde someone who is single, instead if you were lucky enough to find a spouse at a young age, or was lucky enough to marry your children quickly and not go through the heartache of shiduchim, then thank hashem each day-becuase you are so lucky.

38. Reb Feif Un – Please be moichel me, I misread your first comment. I thought you wrote about a person who married someone older. I didn’t read it correctly. Based on what you did write my comment makes no sence. Sorry!

39. You all know the famous 2 mashelim, but it’s worth writing it here:

    Mashel #1 – The Hurricane

    A man was listing to the news, when he heard three was a hurricane coming! Everyone evacuate!
    HE SAID TO HIMSELF….I’M NOT WORRIED, HASHEM WILL HELP

    It started raining hard… the calls from the police knocking on doors was to evacuate.
    HE SAID TO HIMSELF….I’M NOT WORRIED, HASHEM WILL HELP

    The water reached the first floor, the man heard the police on their loudspeakers: come out!! Were here with a rescue boat!! Save your life!!
    HE SAID TO HIMSELF….I’M NOT WORRIED, HASHEM WILL HELP

    The water came to the second floor, forcing the man onto the roof, police helicopters’ came by screaming on their loudspeakers: were here to save you!! grab the rope!! Save your life!!
    HE SAID TO HIMSELF….I’M NOT WORRIED, HASHEM WILL HELP

    HE DROWNED, AND CAME TO THE NEXT WORLD ASKING “HASHEM I PUT ALL MY BITACHON IN YOU, WHY DIDN’T YOU SAVE ME!!??

    THE ANSWER WAS IDIOT!! I SENT THE NEWS REPORT, I SENT THE POLICE KNOCKING ON YOUR DOOR, I SENT THEM IN A RESCUE BOAT, I SENT THEM IN A HELICOPTER.. I GAVE YOU 4 OPPORTUNITIES TO LIVE!!!!

    Mashel #2 – The Dress

    A girl needs a dress for yom tov, she goes to the local dress shop in town 1 month before yom-tov, the FIRST day they got in their yom-tov selection. She goes through 100’s of dresses and turns to the lady, sorry I don’t like any of them.
    Its 2 weeks before yom-tov, she realizes she still has no dress for yom-tov, so she goes back to the towns dress shop and again looks through the dress selection – this time only 90 dresses are left, turns to the lady and says sorry this ones too long, too short, too this and too that. None are good enough for me.
    EREV yom-tov she still has no dress!! she MUST get a dress for yom tov!!! She goes back to the local shop to find 3 dresses….. you get the picture my friends!!

40. I think the parents (in most cases) are the ones to blame and not the kids!!

41. Interesting to hear all these comments coming from either the hamon am or so called professionals!

    As a single guy myself I see it as a two way street, what do I mean by that!

    typical phone call from a shadchan that doesnt know me, ummm well shes amaizing im telling you its perfect you know what, read the chofets chaim thru and thru before you read a shidduch it hurts people…… i know hundreds of single guys some have their priorty’s straight some dont.

    an educated shadchan will know what a priorty is or means..

    age definitly does matter for most I dont want a girl whos more then 2 years my age we happen to be on a diffrent lever no matter where it goes..

    height doesnt matter but it does matter when someone feels uncomfy about someone much smaller in height.

    now those shadchanim who dont like it then hey its your choice not to dea lwith these boys.

42. a rabbi once gave me a bit insight about a shidduchim. dont look for the 100% look for the 50% together your 50% and her 50% will make 100%

43. as long as we are putting up stories about how the singles did it to themselves, thought I’d share another one that made its email rounds.

    The Segula Saga

    Our nation is called “Am Segula” a nation that is a treasure. I don’t know how the word Segula got hijacked for use to mean a remedy for troublesome situations. Perhaps it is because many believe the Segula will unlock their treasure chamber up in Heavens, causing blessings to rain down on them. Whatever the case might be, I can attest to the fact that we have become an “Am Segula” a nation with a whole litany of things to be done to access good fortune.

    When you really, really need something, the desire for that thing, the longing, the pining, the wondering if it’ll arrive, becomes like a huge, festering, blistering, sweltering itch. Have you ever had a bad case of poison ivy where you paced, you jumped, you took forks and scratched away, sat in tubs and slathered everything from milk to toothpaste on your body? If you remember what that feeling was like, you can know how I feel about being single.

    When year passed year and no Prince Charming arrived in his white Porsche, no questing knight scaled my emotional glass mountain to rescue me from spinsterhood, the case became dire. I became the subject of the scrutiny of others who decided I must be doing something wrong to hex and vex my marriage status and that I had to be saved somehow. Thus began my Segula Saga.

    The first Segula I was told about was the broken plate one. You were to collect seven pieces of broken plates from friends’ or relatives’ weddings, and voila, you would be engaged and out to break your own. I had bits of every pattern of fine china lining my shelves. Seven sets of seven adorned my room. The only thing this Segula did for me was, perhaps, enabling me to continue to date, breaking my heart like the china, seven times seven.

    Next I was told to nibble on the Challah and sip on the wine from wedding feasts. I did that, too. These Segulos were quite easy. A nibble and a sip does not impose much time. However, when that didn’t work, folks thought it was time to call in the heavy artillery. Suggestions for Segulas poured in from every person who knew me. One well meaning person told me to ask my parents whether or not they had ever thrown a party celebrating my birth in a synagogue. Seems that people’s wishes for a baby can impact her marriage prospects years later, according to some opinions. When I asked my parents about this, they told me they assumed they had thrown such party as they were wont to do so for all my siblings and nieces. However, since they couldn’t remember who had attended (and whether or not some ill-tempered fairy had given me some curse at that time), they decided to schedule another one. That is how I came to be standing in synagogue, in my twenties, quite a tall baby, listening to folks chuckle and congratulate my father on my birth. No husband was forthcoming in the weeks that followed, although every single person in synagogue had wished me well…and had a good time with the sly comments.

    It was off to Amuka. Then off to the Kotel. Rounds for blessings by Kabbalists, rabbis and ordinary folks. Then off to the Evil Eye lady. That was an experience. She poured boiling lead into a pot over my head. And I prayed as never before, that she not miss the aim of the pot and douse me with lead. The woman showed me that the lead had hardened in the form of eyeballs, a sure sign that someone was hexing me with the Evil Eye. She dispersed those forces and pronounced me “Evil-Eye Free.” I walked out of there, a paranoid-neurotic. I refused to go to social events, stopped putting on makeup and swaddled myself in layers of clothing so that I appeared to be bulky. Anything so that no one would ever be jealous of me! No siree. Not off to show anything off.

    Walking around like an unshapely, makeup free, retiring wall flower did not actually help my marriage prospects. Now I began to get suggestions how to “jazz up” my appearance, along with the daily suggestions of Segulas. I was told to put on braces. I did. No Shidduch arrived. Instead, the dentist asked me if I could find a Shidduch for his daughter.

    A friend of mine is currently childless. She, too, receives suggestions of every Segula imaginable. When I began complaining of the many tricks I have tried to no avail, she told me the most beautiful insight. She showed me a door. Some doors, she pointed out, have only one lock. Therefore, all who want to enter must only open one lock. Some doors, however, have multiple locks. Therefore, each Segula might be a key to one of the many locks. To give up mid-way, before having used every key to every lock, would be sad. We, she said to me, must continue our Segalas and open lock after lock that blocks us from our treasures. I began to feel better about pursuing Segulas, feeling that each one was clicking open another lock between me and my soul mate.

    Which led me on the marathon run of Segulas. Excuse me, please, you had a Shidduch for me? Sorry, couldn’t talk about it. I just didn’t have time. I said Song of Songs, Song of the Sea, Nishmas, and the Song of the Universe. I learned two laws of pure speech and two laws of Shabbos. I went to weddings for my sip and nibble. I doused my Evil Eye with bread and water, contributed charity to organizations that promised me a quick fix to my single-hood, wound red string round and round my wrist, and put Protection Hands on my front door. And I put my fingers into my ears anytime anyone says the word Segula. I didn’t want to hear any more. No thank you. No time for additional ones.

    At one point last year, I called Rabbi Green, Rosh Yeshiva of Bircas HaTorah in Jersualem. “Rabbi, “ I wailed, completely overwrought with the do’s and do’s and do’s of single-hood, “what do I have to do as my effort to get married?” Rabbi Green, ever to the point, ever practical, ever spiritual had this pithy saying, “try some faith.” Oh Heavens, way too hard for me. To believe with perfect faith that G-d, my Father in Heaven, would send me my spouse at the perfect time? Can I sit back and just believe? Oooh, the agony of the itch that shouldn’t be scratched! Can I? Dare I? I think I might. My friends, keep your Segulas. I’m working on keeping my faith.

    ###

    Chevrah, what you are all saying is just not true. Most singles who are single are not electing to be so. In fact, many of whom folks had nasty things to say (one 40-yr-old I was told just wasn’t interested in getting married) subsequently got married when Hashem willed it for them & it was clear that it was the right time and right guy, which couldn’t have happened any sooner. If everyone is sure they will not suffer with an “alter bochur” or a spinster daughter, then let them sling these insults. If not, “shvieg” because someday you will regret the injury you are doing to the singles who are hurting by these ill-spirited mayselech

44. lady’s and gentelman please stop with all the nonsense……become single again and see were it takes you!!!!!!!!!!

    how about stop becoming shadchanim who are trying to sell even if your doing it without making money, all we here shes good and thats good how about listen to the guy or girl to see what she wants stop trying to change the world.

45. Lets not blame anyone! Just listen to the advice of openmindedness! and to all those complaining about heartless shadchanim that dont care about the feelings of singles 1st of all get real! thats not the majority of them and 2nd of all the author hardly sounds like that type and he still claims to be met with lack of hakaros hatov! (and much more) If i may add – call the shadchan back!!!!!!! why must he chase after you ??? (very few of them have ” machines and never are available”)

46. rabbosi,

    the problem iz that the girlz go to ceminary (mispelled on perpose).

    Stay home get a job and skip the RAMBAN on Chumash.

47. some girlz even stay 2 years in sem. like schem it makes no sense.

48. comment to debbie – your story is sad, because Chana should have jumped at the opportunity to marry Shmuel. I know quite a few families where the wife earns more than the husband. That is not a good enough reason to forgo a shidduch.He was willing to marry her despite how her looks changed with age and the risk of her becoming ill again, and she rejected him. What a shame.
    I once had a mother turn down a prospective shidduch for her son, because the girl wore too “big” of a size. She was not fat mind you, just not less than a size 8. A person is not a size, but a personality. I have had a mother turn down a boy for her daughter because the Yeshiva he was going to wasn’t Lakewood. I think these people are missing the boat.

49. Too often shiduchim are being put off because of outside reasons. IMO if the children are old and mature enough to get married they should be in on the shiduch. Nothing should be said about a proposal without their knowledge. The shadchun should work with parents and children at the same time (conference calling). Often a shidduch is like playing that old child game telephone where each step of the way the information is further distorted.

50. Ideas-from a Shadchan
    1)Have toll free numbers to all your phones, mobile, summer home etc.
    2)Have a printout ready with all details and phone numbers of references, keep a few copies with your personally– have it ready to fax or on your computer to email without delay (picture? your discretion)
    3)Details on above should be thorough.

51. girls mom- maybe dont call the shadchan every week! that would make you a nag and thus they might not want to spk to you. hishtadlus is one thing nagging is quite another

52. You make very valid points.
    “BUT” sounds like you are a Hypocrite were’nt u the same b-4 u got married?

53. I am a male single that could arguably be included in the ABC (Alter Bachur Club). With complete humble apreciation to HaKadosh Baruch Hu, I get many phone calls every day. Although, I am still looking for the “One”, I have yet to lack girls to date.

    I have taken my long dating period and scrutinized myself from all angles. I know that it just hasn’t been my time yet, but the process still definitely demands serious introspection.

    I’ll be the first to admit that I have made some serious mistake in my approach to dating over the years, some of them repetatively until I well over exhausted them. I may have ended potential matchs prematurely. I undoubtedly slighted many people along the way – yes, Shadchonim included. And of course, I am truly sorry to all those hurt by my learning curve.

    But I think that there is something beyond all that that is part of this shidduch crisis. In today’s accessible media filled world, and whatever other possible negative influences that we are bombarded with – many people have lost (or never had) the skill to date effectively. To some extent, whether we like it or not, this process is a game of sorts. And it is usually a game that demands respect. When two people who are otherwise suited for each other do not skillfully play out this game, one could easily walk away and not even realize that s/he left the table only because the other person didn’t play it right.

    Now, many have married and connected by not playing the rules of this “game” – and that does not disprove my theory. Rather, there are many ways around this game such as being young and more naive, i.e., when less of the dating process is being analyzed by each other. (Sometimes, I wish I would have married that way, but it poses a serious risk that I personally could not have taken.)

    Singles should either should learn the skill of effective dating or perhaps we should be conscious of this notion. Or both. That is to say, if you are dating someone and s/he says or does something that would raise an immediate flag, before you just discard the shidduch, do more research. And if you think you just didn’t click after one date when otherwise everything so far matches up, give the person another chance – you may have not clicked because the other person is not an effective dater and may need more time from you to showcase who s/he is.

    In sum, if you are single, you are most likely not going to learn effective dating skills. So that really leaves us with the second alternative; forgive the “game”, give the normal people you date, the people who are well within the realm of your consideration as your life partner some space to make the small mistakes. And of course do your research when a red flag comes up, but please do not just walk away.

    And of course, always be nice to the Shadchan… 😀

54. Great blog!!!!! we can shmooze this over Cholent (from 14th ave that is) at Sloatsburg this evening!!!!

55. basmelech
    you have a very good point there!! sizes and yeshivos are all that matters to some parents and that’s what’s hindering their children from getting married!!! People dont realize how foolish they sound when they say ‘oh he’s not learning in lakewood’??!!my daughter only wants a lakewood boy!! can someone explain to me the definition of LAKEWOOD BOY!!!!????? why is lakewood better than any other yeshiva in the NY/ NJ area!!!!

56. As a single I just want to say that if some (in my opinion the majority) of the shadchanim (some amateur, some professional) would be a bit more sensitive and spend more time listening to the single they are trying to help and show a real interest in the person as an individual as opposed to seeing them as another name in the pink book to be matched with a name in the blue book then the singles might be a bit more open to listening and trusting shadchanim.

    Try validating a singles concerns in a non-judgmental, understanding way and asking them how they feel about going out on one more date, or calling one more person for a fresh or different opinion before making a final decision- not just making them feel small and worthless and completely patronized.

    We actually have some experience with dating, believe it or not, a single that has dated 100-200 people more than once will likely have a very good idea of what s/he is looking for and what will work for him/her not to mention a deeper understanding of dating, the way relationships develop and the dynamics involved, – You just might not understand the subtleties and therefore label us as picky!

    Remember- an older single has spent most of the last 5-10 years thinking deeply about most of the relationships s/he was in and what s/he is looking for.

    The way to solve the shidduch crisis (I hate that term) is not just by blindly redding shidduchim (even if the ideas are good ones) it is also about showing Kavod habriyos, and showing singles the respect that they deserve not only for being a human being like everyone else, but for the fact that carry on functioning day after day, the fact that they haven’t given up and are even talking to you, the fact that they walk around with a very very hard peckel on their shoulders, to me that alone deserves an enormous amount of respect!

    Once a single sees that a shadchan REALLY wants them to be happy, and doesn’t just want to marry them off to solve their problem and wont hurt them or put them down or make them feel even worse than they already feel about the whole thing then the single might feel like wanting to work with a shadchan and listen to their ideas.

57. deer grose,

    you are not married b/c u r 2 bizzy gettin’ dizzy from all d segulos,

    the only segula 4 gettin married is going on dates…. and eating figs….

58. I agree very much with the article as well as with many comments. I have one thing to add that I hope will cause some people out there to stop and think. Going back some years, at the age of 16 I b’h red a successful shidduch. The couple involved were both above the age of thirty. My point is not to brag, boast, or beg to be applauded. All I want to point out is that a persons shidduch could come from anywhere and we never know from who or where. Our job is to do our Hishtadlus without the ridiculous shtuyot (stack or scrape, china or plastic, 19 or 20, and my all time favorite “does she wear a seatbelt on a date cuz it’s ‘not tzniyus’. Oy!) and with a little seichel…

59. Ok, its time to start putting character limits on posts.

    Perhaps there is a happy medium. I understand a parent’s desire to weed out the undesirables and I understand the problem of being too picky and how it must surely be adding to the crises.

    Would it be so bad to have a standard where first dates arranged by sadchanim (professional or dabblers) are completely non-committal.

    I watched a young lady who is a friend of the family say no so arbitrarily because of the type of job the boy had. This from a 27 year old! I said “go out, worst comes to worst stop after 1 date”. She wouldn’t hear of it!

    Well once we’re on stories……

    Grump: Can you PLEASE speak up?

60. drdrekop:
    You are SO on the money. But don’t ghet me started……
    (Grump???????????????????)

61. to brumfin post # 10 Check out Tosfos Sanhedrin 21a and the Chiddushei HaRan there that deals with your questions.

62. Ideas -from a ShadChan
    1)Put toll free numbers on all your phones-make sure you have a clear voice mail message
    2)Have ready an information sheet nicely formatted ready for faxing, emailing and hard copies to hand out at the correct opportunities. Included on the sheet –
    schools, camps attended
    where you Daven now
    contact numbers for references re above

    Some friends contact information – roommates are good
    2 line blurb what you are doing now
    2 line blurb what you are looking for (optional)

    Mechutonim names and contact information if applicable
    Some friends of the parents
    3)Keep an open mind

63. FYI: NOT EVERY EXCUSE THAT PEOPLE TELL A SHADCHAN IS THE REAL REASON THAT THEY ARE SAYING NO. TAHY MAY HAVE ALL READY LOOKED INTO IT AND DECIDED THAT IT’S NOT FOR THEM.
    BUT PEOPLE SHOULD DEFINITELY TAKE PEOPLE WHO CALL THEM WITH A SHIDDUCH VERY SERIOUSLY.

64. shisho- there is s/t behind the concept of a lkwd boy.That does not mean to say that there arent fine boys from other yeshivos but (until recently) most of the mainstream long term learning boys went to Lkwd.So if that is what a girl is looking for then her parents may question why a boy did choose another yeshiva.In the past few yrs several fine “lkwd alternatives ” opened up and I believe pp are becoming more openminded to that fact..

65. comment 63,

    you said the magic word in another context though,
    Yes, UNFORTUNATLEY the Avodah Zoroh of our times,,,MONEY, OR lack there of is also an issue in todays shidduchim world, sadly sadly!

    I knwo of a case where a shidduch went back vdery close to the day of the wedding because one party couldnt fulfill what the other side wanted. Its so unfortunate that the young people didnt ignore the problem and marry anyways

66. So if that is the case that caling every week is being a nudge than lets hear from the shadchunim wgat do you think?We are not trying to be a nudge just trying to help our kids and want the shadcunim to remember us

67. 65. non kollelman
    couldnt have been put better
    thats the ONLY reason theres a shidduch crisis.

68. i agree with you 100 percent!i recently red a shiduch to a 25 year old friend of mine who wouldnt hear of it for some really vague reasons.people need to realize what an achrayis it takes to say no before even meeting a boy!!

69. There exists another crisis within the Shidduch crisis. Most busy Shadchanim prefer to deal with big name/big money clients. Most people with children in Shidduchim know exactly who I am referring to. There ought to be a place where Shadchanim who don’t reserve the bulk of their time for big name/big money clients, publicize themselves.

    Rabbosai, what’s the solution? There might be very fine and genuine Shadchanim out there, but how does one get to know of them?

70. To Yiddishekop: Great Ideas -from a ShadChan
    1)Put toll free numbers on all your phones-make sure you have a clear voice mail message
    2)Have ready an information sheet nicely formatted ready for faxing, emailing and hard copies to hand out at the correct opportunities. Included on the sheet –
    schools, camps attended
    where you Daven now………..
    AND WHAT DO WE DO WITH THE ABOVE?

71. You wanna talk about money and girls’. What would Yeshivah personel prefer their Bochurim marry? Which way do they steer them? Bochurim alone are guided by gut feeling, instinct and hormones, the $ pressure is externally generated.. enough said

72. We have another problem with this crisis.
    Good friends who you ask information about a prospect think that on top of “genuine” information they have to give you their advice too by saying ” Oh, this not for you”

73. Another tip, from experience.
    Nevr make the mistake of redding someone a shidduch if you have a son or daughter of your own that would be pontentially suitable. The reaction is excitment and defensiveness as to why you have the ‘nerve to offer something to me which is obviously not good enough for you’

74. plp, I second that!!! It is a big problem that friend pasul up shidduchim for their friends. People should just give info and let the boy or girl decide if it is for them.

75. This thread is maddening. Every genius knows whats wrong and how to fix it. I propose that those that are on the outside looking in please keep your opinions to yourself because most of the time you are so offbase, it’s scary. Those that are in the parshah, meaning actual shadchanim (not the “oh I know a single guy and a single girl why-would-one-date-hurt type), singles, parent of older singles, etc. know what I mean.

76. #46 goose

    My heart goes out to you, and i hope that you find your bashert soon.
    I dont want to put down all of your segulas, im sure there could be something to some of them.

    But i thought i would comment, my Mashgiach once told a group of us bochrim, that people are prepared to go to the ends of the earth doing segulas “they will hang upside down on a tree by one leg at midnight”[not a real segulah]…..but the true segulas are simple and that is being and Ehrlicheh yid, not talking Loshon Horah, Bein Odom LeChaveirah Mamish!!! Tefilah!!!! Tzedakah!!!! just the basics that Hashem wants us to do. I heard Rav Zev Leff say, that you dont become a big Talmid Chacham from getting a brocha (sure it helps) but you become one from………… you guessed it HARD WORK.

    Lets all just try to love each other and love Hashem and the world will be much better.

    I wish everyone Haztlacha Raba in finding a shiduch and everything they are looking for.

77. From reading some of the comments here from the “singles” it continues to prove that people are being picky on the wrong things. You need to be picky – ON THE RIGHT THINGS FOR YOU! Being picky about things that don’t make a difference once you are married is what’s making you an ‘alter single’. Bottom line: Anyone who WANTS to get married does.

78. what about cases where boy meets and likes girl only to find out during dating he wont be getting the support he expected, or what his friend who isnt a TOP bochur like him get, or even his parents telling him to drop the girl if her parents wont support??!!

79. I asked 3 major Shadchonim to compare the ‘shidduch lives’ of post-seminary girls likely to marry learning boys that have $$ versus those that don’t have $$ and they all said that those with $$ are likely to get 3 or 4 times more ‘yeses’ than those that don’t. This is simply one of the Nisyonos of out times.

80. Another Hot topic on YW -shidduchim crisis! seems like the frum community is keeping busy by buzzing abt either kids at risk,shidduchim,etc…but anyway sticking to the current topic let me add to the inside scoop -being single myself (BH not older but not 19 either) let me 1st say that the comments made about us singles being too picky makes no sense. How do u define being too picky anyway ?? Yeah its true that some people have their priorites messed up-but then say it like that , being picky is ALLOWED – u have to be selective & picky to know the right one to choose from all those available The goal is not just to marry a/o -we want 2 marry s/o who WE feel is right 4 us, s/o WE can be happy with-whatever it is that makes me happy may not make s/o else etc…you get the drift
    every single seems 2 b labeled as picky until they get married …because in essence thar are being choosy till the right one comes along ..if s/o’s looking for a pair of shoes ( mashal for girls) or a car (mashal for boys 🙂 & u have in mind some type of idea of what ur looking 4 – ur going to eliminate the other shoes/cars & be picky abt what meets ur needs & what u feel most comf. with..were these good comparisons?
    Also Its a good idea 4 singles 2 make a list of NEEDS & WANTS itll help clarify things of what 2 b looking 4 ( yes I did this & it has helped be nix or go ahead with shidduchim). Also it def. is a good idea 2 stay open-minded from my dating experience a lot of the “hot boys” who sound good on paper & sound exactly what ur looking 4..after going out end up being off & many times what sounds a little off or not exactly what ur looking 4 ends up being closest to the target..so stay open minded & know whats really impt to you & then u gotta daven,do some histadlus & hang in there & enjoy ur single years !! Anyway this topic can go on 4eva but bottom line is that yeah singles should be more open minded & more people should red shidduchim & those redding shidduchim should do so with sensitivity & respect !!

81. himmelstein-lets face it.if a boy is red 2 girls that really seem equal…both top seminarys, one was chessed head, the other won the middos award, both are pretty and come from wonderful homes and have superb persoanlitys just that one happens to have a yerusha that will make that her husband will be able to sit and learn for as long as possible without any worries…and will be able to live wthout any money tirdos …does it seem so boggling that he will go out with the wealthy girl 1st? I agree that it makes no sense to give up on values for money but Im talking in instances where all else seems equal (which is very often).and dont give drashos that the girl with money is spoiled and dependent etc b/c there are pleanty of wealthy and still very capable young ladies !! So if all else is equal then yes – he will “Pick” the girl with money.unfair? 1000% but it definetely is understandable

82. tek – I agree with your situation, unfortunately, too often, its pressure from rebeiim, their parents, Brisk, that cause this unfair statistic

83. I HAVEN’T READ ONE REPLY TO MY POST ABOUT MOST SHADCHONIM BEING ANXIOUS TO WORK FOR HIGH SOCIETY CLIENTS AND A REQUEST TO POST NAMES OF SHADCHONIM WHO ARE LOOKING TO HELP OUT THOSE OTHER THAN HIGH SOCIETY FOLK.

84. As a shadchan, I couldn’t agree more with the author. Very much on target!

    As for those who disagree – try getting a boy’s mom to say yes to a shidduch that doesn’t meet all 4,000 of her criteria. Or, try getting a 29 year girl to agree to something other than what she has in mind. GOOD LUCK!!

    Yes, it’s a huge issue, but, there’s plenty of blame to go around & if perhaps people would start listening to the message that the writer is expressing – they might be helping themselves.

85. As an older single, I must say that some of the posters here wouldn’t post such strongly worded posts & be so quick to blame singles for their predicament….if they knew more about the stories behind many singles etc.

    No normal person would ever choose to stay single late into life. I can’t even begin to tell you how difficult it can be at times. There is no guide book about how to get through this nisayon with your sanity. It is rough.

    But believe it or not…I wasted a lot of time on being open minded, trying to be reasonable or to at least appear reasonable so….no one could say I was “being too picky”. What a shame. I have been brow beaten by way too many shadchanim. I hope Hashem will forgive me for all the time wasted.

    Anyway….I have no great big solutions or answers. But I must say: folks, you are talking about people. Have you ever asked an older single (try 30 +) how they feel? how their life is on a daily basis? how they celebrate yom tovim? what do they do each & every Shabbos? how self conscious they feel in shul, at simchas….in other places?

    Just ask.

    I am sure there many people out there saying many stupid things – rejecting shidduchim for apparently no good reason. But…..1) maybe you can help them a bit? talk to them?

    2) maybe you can help someone else?

    3) maybe you can just invite a single person over for a Shabbos meal with NO agenda except….including them?

    4) maybe you can go up to a single person in shul & just say hi. and invite them for a meal….if not that Shabbos….then another time?

    Hello people. Hello? Try to see yourself in the actual shoes of the other person. Be a Jew.

86. Hi,
    to all the shadchanim and well meaning people.

    I am 35 years old with a yeshiva background and I have been in the business world for 8 years now. I am well dressed and well groomed and put together for the corporate world. I have built myself up successfully and I have much sincere care and security to give to a deserving and nice girl. I have been previously married for two years about 7 years ago and have been single since.

    Most girls in the high 20s and low 30s due to my marital history of many years ago thus denying themselves an opportunity for the life and happiness that most girls claim to want and dream for . As such , I’m guessing then that the older single girl situation is not nearly as dire as is complained about in magazine and newspaper articles and letters and by people in general.

    However , if there are in fact many thousands of girls who are single in the 25-35 age range who are crying for a shidduch, well here I am to marry one of them. So lets see who cares most about their single friend/relative , by getting back to me the quickest.
    My email can be obtained from the YW webmaster.

    Thanks , and my best to all.
    Class act

87. I don’t think which seminary a girl went to, or if she didn’t even go to seminary at all, should be an issue in shidduchim either. |think one should judge a girl by her midos, her tznius, etc., her other qualities, not her having gone to the top seminary or any seminary. I never inquired what seminaries my daughters in law went to and they didn’t all go the “best” one, and they all great girls.

88. smartgal, we might have believed your screen name if you talked a bit less.

89. Class act, maybe you are overrating yourself?

    And if not, why limit yourself to only one?

90. Perhaps people are looking for the wrong things, hence our “Shidduch Crisis.”

    Put “looks” last on your list, not first.
    Put tzinius first.

91. Does anyone have any medical knowledge, perhaps that can help explain. What are they feeding the boys ( it must be in the food) in the centers of higher learning. Do they not have Tivos,(urges) Is it natural that young men remain celibate, be bereft of companionship, waiting for the size 2 heiress.

92. The priorities in finding a shidduch are the person’s values, midos, human qualities, hashkofos [views], ne’emonus [honesty/trustworthiness], yoshrus [integrity], gentleness, mentshlachkeit, rachus [softness and flexibility], ne’eemus [sweetness, ability to blend well with others], mesiras nefesh [ability to sacrifice and extend oneself], acharayus [responsibility], bechira [the ability to choose to obey Torah, especially when put to a test] and koach-hanesinah [generosity, the ability to give unconditionally and steadily].

    Everything else on the list is secondary. Attraction should definitely not be the #1.

93. Have people forgotten the Mishna in Pirkei Avos?

    Shemona Esrei L’Chupa…

    18 is a very practical age – by then a person has had an opportunity to learn a large amount of Torah. The Gemorah (Kiddushin 29b) says that from a perspective of guarding against aveiros, 16 is better and 14 is better yet. The Shulchan Aruch (Even HaEzer 1:3) says that the best way to perform the mitzvah of marriage is to get married at age 13.

    The halachic deadline is age 20. If a man has not gotten married by age 20, the Gemorah says that all of his days he will have improper thoughts.

94. re:83 and 85

    as a teacher of high school and post high school students I am often confronted with the question of why do girls with money have 3 or 4 times the amount of shidduchim as those with less money. It seems that the idea of how one must live in kollel these days is way out of line with what is needed inorder to be in kollel. NEEDS and WANTS are two different ideas that have unfortunately become confused in our world. Money is here one day and gone the next. It is a turning wheel. One does not find that those who marry for money necessarily stay in kollel longer than those who learn because that is what they really want to do. Yes, money is important, but no, money should not be the be all in deciding which girl a guy should go out with and neither should the sem. they have gone to make as much as a difference as it does because believe me from one who is in the know, there are many girls in the so called ivy league sems. that got there the way things have always gone for them $$$$$ and you have no clue what they are really all about. So perhaps looking at the quality of the home, and the girl should really be the indicator and the $$$$ aspect should be left to the One who is in charge.

95. “Mazel, mazel, mazel” — always the key in being a shadchan and being the single man/woman in question.

    I’m not of yeshivish background, and I did marry seemingly late in life (age 32). When people would
    say, “Soon by you” and then ask “why aren’t you married yet?” I’d say “He hasn’t found me yet!”

    Being modern Orthodox, I’m still fascinated by the perimeters of shidduchim, and honestly I’m also disappointed. There are too many needs, too many wants. I really like the commenter who quoted their rav who said that one should seek 50%, not 100%. That is a brilliant theory — not that one should “settle,” but it is much more realistic, much more feasible to work on such a relationship where together you make up that 100%.

    I met my husband through a “set-up”/an acquaintance, but not a shadchan. And happily, nearly 14 years and three children later, I say, “Hashem saved the best for last!”

    I wish you all hatzlacha in finding your bashert, or having him/her find you. It is all about being open-minded, giving someone a chance. You never know the treasure you might find in a realm where you were not seeking!

96. why don’t the gedolem say anything about this issue?

97. AS I SEE IT IT’S MORE OF A PERSONAL ISSUE FOR ONE TO DECIDE THEN THE GEDOLEM. GREAT POST PENINA.

98. note to 100. see report of levaya of one of the telshe roshei yeshiva’s son’s nebech who died young. The father beseached that his son be a meletz yosher for all the sinle people needing shiducchim

99. Joseph-iM AFRAID THAT IS UTTER NONSENSE! Attraction is a very important element! Ask even the most far frumt yeshivish expert and they will tel you so

100. Jospeh,

     I strongly disagree with your last point. Ofcourse all those things you listed are of utmost importance. But if there is no attraction, it will never work. There are so many unfortunely who divorce straight away after the marriage because of lack of appeal.
     ‘Put looks last on your list’
     Volvi, thats a bit of an exaggaration!

101. #25 did u say TWO HUNDRED girls u went out with? Where in the torah did u eveer see aprecedent for THAT?? 200 girls & no one special enough for u?? Who exactly do you think you are? As a shadchanis who has made 30 shiduchim, I simply do not buy that u could not find a compatible girl after meeting 200, this simply smacks of tremendous “gayus” to me! This has nothing to do with Al Tadin es Chavercha, this has to do with not being able to make a decision..good luck to you

102. Besides, it is a Brocho to be beautiful. Our Imohos were beautiful along with theri middos as well. They were ‘Yifas Toar’.

103. #97 (Ed)

     I think I once heard that the 18 of the Mishna is somewhere in the 20’s nowadays. Most boys are not mature enough to be married at 18 and are therefore allowed (probably obligated) to wait until they are older and ready.

     If someone gets married too young, there is a higher chance of divorce which could make them single for much longer afterwards R”L so yatza scharo bihefsedo. If you are worried about “all of his days he will have improper thoughts” then consider this scenario: A boy gets married at 18 and divorced at 20. Then doesn’t get married again until 30. The days between 19 and 30 are much more numerous (10 years) then if he would have just waited until lets say 23 (5 years) when he is more mature and more likely to have a lasting marriage.

     Everyone is different and should consult their own Rebbe and listen to Daas Torah about when to start dating.

104. what do you know?

     I have met tens of singles some are too picky however most of them just didn’t find the right one bec. that’s what Hashem decided would be there nissoyon! Dumb comment anyone who wants to get married does. Do you believe in hashgochas haboreh that not everything you think is so easy to accomplish you can do?

     If I am allowed my two cents (or more)about boys looking for money I have heard from many Choshuve people that if the boy really deserves to be in Kollel i.e. a shtarke guy, there is no reason to compromise, whatever the reason is but lemaase its a boys world out there and as long as they are not too old they are offered shidduchim left and right, so a pur tuller would defenitily push things along.

     thank you for listening and enjoy the chulent.

105. there are b”h 5 girls on my family. we are all hapilly married. how did it happen? my parents believe in “young and dumb”. not that we got married before we were ready, just the younger a person is, the easier it is for them to change and mold. once a person has been an elligble single for 2, 5, 10, or 15 years, they are set in their ways and have no intention of changing for someone as unimportant as a prospective husband. they think it is below their dignity to adapt themselves, or work on give and take.
     i am not saying that this is a solution for everyone, but these highly educated girls with prestigous jobs who know exactly what they want from life would have been a lot more flexible when they were younger. not to say that you have to compromise on things when you are 19, just that you don’t know enough to be picky about stupid things, like if his father has a beard or not.

106. Reading this article and comments has brought tears to my eyes. Perhaps I’m just overly emotional because someone very close to me, hasn’t found anyone yet. Is she too picky? No she is NOT. You should hear the shidduchim that people come up with. And she truly is perfect. Uh except she’s “OLD” (25)! She has the best middos, she is beautiful, she is emotionally stable (yes that’s important!) and really smart, she’s fun and not at all depressed (most of the time). Why does she have this Tzara? It’s a Nisayon, Hashem has given her. Don’t blame a cancer patient R”L for their illness (unless they smoke), and don’t blame someone without kids for not trying, and don’t blame our singles for things that are beyond their control.

     Most singles are willing to compromise just not on everything. Not on things that are SUPER important (to them). That doesn’t mean that they won’t compromise, just that they have standards, which they’ve lowered, due to age, but haven’t completely given up. Please Shadchanim respect a girls standards. Girls are not idiots. They want to get married more than anything else. They spend their nights crying and their days thinking of nothing else. If something won’t work for them, they’ve thought long and hard about it and know it won’t work for them. It might work for you and/or your child (maybe, maybe not, wait till your there), that doesn’t mean it’s okay for everyone. If someone tells you they need someone who is from a “Heimish” family, maybe they do. Really, who are you to judge? I’m not saying that it’s valid, I’m just saying they know what they need. Face it. SO DID YOU. There were certain things that you did not compromise on.

     If you are honestly interested in the person that you are redting a shidduch to that will come through. You will trust them and they will trust you. However my experience has been that unfortunately many people have an ulterior motive. And usually their ulterior motive is very silly, so think hard before you redt a shidduch, are you out to help the single, or help yourself. If you want to help the single, they’ll sense that and you will be successful.

     There are some people who do care, but not enough people.

     Regarding the ideas from a shadchan; have you ever been in the Parsha of marrying off an older child/sibling? Do you know how hard it is for an older single girl to give references? Her best friends are long married and into different inyanim. So they are out of touch with each other. Yes they talk occasionally but it’s naturally somewhat superficial. The single tries to be interested in the antics of her friends 4 kids, and the friend tries hard to find time to concentrate on the single’s issues at work. When the married friend is called for information she can only respond half-heartedly because she really feels out of touch with her friend. So, who does the single spend time with? Well, that’s one of the reasons they hate being single. They have to choose from the girls who are also single, and often they aren’t the same type. And when they give those girls as a reference, people make assumptions. Oh you are friends with so and so, she’s not at all Yeshivish, or she’s so quiet and nebby, or loud and wild. And then they act on the assumptions, no way is this girl for that boy.

     Suggestion: Call the family, don’t they want the best for the girl? Why would they lie to you? Most won’t, of course there are exceptions. Most families wouldn’t try to marry t try to marry her off to someone that’s inappropriate. I’ve spoken to many mothers and siblings of older singles, they are very realistic about their children/sisters. After all what good does it do for them to marry off the child only to have them come back home Chas V’Shalom.

     And regarding, having an information sheet ready to fax off, come on how relevant is it where a 25 year old went to High School or seminary, or where she or her father daven? She probably goes to the shul where the least people will scorn her. Her father davens where he thinks he can find the best shidduch for his daughter.

     I have a better idea. Get to know the girl. Get to really know her. Start to care for her. Then you’ll know what’s an appropriate shidduch. You will be able to WHOLE HEARTEDLY speak for the girl. YOU will become her advocate. Does that take time? Yes it does. So don’t do it for 50 girls do it for 2 or 3. If we each look out for just a few girls we can make a world of difference.

     And to the Dress Store Mashal. Do you think singles don’t know there are only 3 dresses left in the store. Did you ever think that maybe the store with 200 dresses was closed for them? Not everyone got to be old because they were picky. Some people never had all the opportunities, maybe because they weren’t wealthy or maybe because it just wasn’t meant to be easy for them. Why not? I don’t know.

     IF you are truly doing it L’shem Shamayim I’m sure you will be rewarded whether or not you are successful and the girl will feel it and appreciate it.

107. ” I feel that I must mention that some of the reasoning’s behind a “no” are absolutely ridiculous. Now, I understand in some cases I am not being told the real reason, but many times I am. I recently called the father of a 26-year-old old girl and was told that they aren’t interested in the boy because his family “isn’t heimish enough”!”

     WHAT?????????? I’m disagree- if a family is not heimish enough, the shidduch should defiantely not go ahead….There are too many divorces how it is…(I don’t need to say any more…)

108. I had an older sister in her 30s who was unmarried, so when in israel many years ago I went into rav Shach for a bracha.
     Rav Shach listened to my request and declined giving a bracha
     As i recall, these were his exact words “ich geb nisht a bracha far dee zachen, as zee vet velen chasunah huben, vet zee chasunah huben.” ie,its up to her
     A year later she went out with a boy she had been red to years before but had decided he wasnt for herthis time she was tired of dallying and got married (though not the happiest marrage)

109. 81-flatbushid, as a single girl myself, I take offense at your comment. I want more than anything to get married, however people don’t show any interest at all in going out with me because my family and I do not stand out in any way. I have a very hard time getting someone interested in going out with me, and when I did go out, I always had a 100% valid reason for saying no. So please don’t say that anyone who WANTS to get married does. If shadchanim and friends would put their thinking caps on and redt me normal guys with somewhat similar goals as me, maybe I would be married by now (with Hashems help)

110. If i may add it doesnt seem that the author is referring nec. to older girls. Granted more mature singles may be more thought out as to what really is important to them,and what does and doesnt work for them, but many (esp. younger ) singles arent that thought out and therefore when you get a no b/c ” we want younger mechutanim” (which is the parents speaking mind you) it is not because that wont work for the kid necessarily…19 0r 20 yr old gilrs and 22 yr old boys cannot in most cases have such a clear understanding of what wont’t work for them thus are not deserving of respect when they give nonsensical nos

111. 97,do we follow the rest of that mishnah’s guidelines?
     104, I agree that we need to take pressure off the parents. (This may dovetail with the tuition crisis.) But if the young woman has, say, a problem pregnancy, or wants to stay home with her children, are we giving our young men the confidence and resourcefulness they’ll need to shoulder their responsibilities when the time comes?
     Good Shabbos and kol tuv

112. 111 – shul – thumbs up to you. You said it beautifully.

     106 – principal – What an insenstive comment. How do you know that 200 girls didn’t say no to him? And does everything need a precedent in the torah? Is there a precedent in the Torah for going out on 10 dates to hotel lobbies etc. before getting engaged? For girls working at professional careers to support their families? no, but we do it anyway.

113. tak & nameless: reread my comment. I said looks should not be NUMBER ONE.

     It is important, yes. But after all of the “real important” stuff (see my list above.)

114. HaQer, statistically the younger someone got married, the less likely of divorce.

     They are too young to have been strongly influenced by all the negative influences in society today.

115. “In fact let’s teach them economics and have the pretend to play house and depending what they what to do and their husband wants to do you can figure how much money they make a month”

     My sister was in high school in Monsey, and they did this project. they had a kollel family and two working families(i don’t remember all the details, but one of the families had income of over 300k(and there were no taxes in the equation)
     Would you believe it?
     The only family that was able to make it was the kollel family.
     Mo income…no tuition…no taxes(paid out that is, there probably were taxes coming in in the form of Medicare, hud, wic etc.)…

116. LOOKS SHOULD DEFINITELY NOT BE NUMERO UNO.

     Anyone who prioritizes beauty, got all their priorities mixed up.

     Beuty is a factor, but not the most important factor.

     First seek out what REALLY COUNTS. After you got all that fulfilled, worry about “beauty.”

     People mixing up these priorities, IS WHY WE HAVE THE SHIDDUCH CRISIS TODAY.

117. HaQer, marrying young is generally the best thing. It is before people become too influenced by all the negative outside influences society unfortunately pushes on us today.

     Statistically, the younger the marriage began, the more likely it is to be successful.

118. Joseph,

     Please! Every married individual knows that if there is a lack of attraction the marriage is doomed from the start. I dont think any one of the other wonderful qualities will compromise if there is no appeal. So in fact , physical beauty (a question of taste of course!) should be amongst the priorities!

119. tzipi (#116): Yes, it would help. And you should always follow a Mishna and Shulchan Aruch anyway.

     The chasidishe marriages, where they marry young (and don’t go through the dating mess/shpiel), have less divorce than others. I think their marrying young, and not shmoozing too much with the kallah before marriage, plays a large part in that.

120. only one comment from me:

     Boruch HaShem that my wife wasn’t(and still isn’t) picky! -neither were/are her parents!

121. nameless, it is well known that prioritizing looks is a leading cause of divorce in both secular and religious societies.

     First you are infatuated, and then over time as the marriage progresses, it all wears off.

     That is why these days we have such a big problem finding shidduchim. Everyone is looking for the best looks. It kills numerous shidduchim and destroys existing marriages nebech.

     It is the worst thing a person can do, to prioritize looks.

122. Md,
     Dont fish for compliments! lol!

     Brisker,

     I dont know whether you are married or not and if you are, I sure hope your wife didnt read your last comment. The point I wanted to make is that NO SHOLOM BAYIS PROBLEM in the world will EVER be solved if there is a problem between a couple due to lack of attraction. I know a case of an amazing, amazing girl who had it all. Impeccable middos, clever, money yichus all of it. After 6 weeks of seeking help through Rabonim and other professionals the marriage ended because her husband didnt find her attractive.

     Its not so simple to say that looks is not a priority. Anyone who is married will understand that!

123. Ladies and gentlemen:
     Looks fade, figures change, money comes and goes – don’t base a life long decision on superficial obsessions. You need to respect your spouse for whom she/he is. We should value a man for his respect for his parents and rebbeim, his enthusiasm to provide for his family. And we should value a woman for her talent, her patience with children, the respect she has for her parents and teachers, her middos and behavior to other people…
     Tuck yourself in, behave appropriately, drive like a mentsch, do your best to gain the worlds respect and they will respect you in return.

124. nameless, you seem to place to high a priority on “looks.” Many more marriages are lost due to focus on this not as important area, as opposed to more vital issues in marriages, than are lost the other way around.

     mdlevine, I sure hope she is picky now!!

     Cheers

125. To all those that think people’s priorities will ever change. It will never happen. Most people will always go for money (especially learning boys with zero income).

     The only way we can ease the Shidduch crisis is limiting the amount of years spent in f/t learning, thereby necessitating less outside help and dependence on outside sources for money, not completely, but somewhat.

     You know the famous saying:

     _ _ _ _ doesn’t pay the rent.

126. Ed, no! – let her remain as she is and not be picky – do you want her to throw me out after all these years???

127. I dunno mdlevine. Who wears the pants in the house?!

     Cheers

128. Joseph,
     I don’t know the statistics (93.6% of statistics are made up on the spot!) but when I said that young marriages are more likely to end up in divorce, I was talking about boys who are VERY young (~18) AND not mature (18) and therefore not ready for the responsibility of marriage. Of course, many of these boys are ready and many of the marriages do work out but, for the rest, it’s better to wait just a few years until you can be sure that they are mature and responsible.

129. HaQer, Every case is individually unique of course. But if anything can be generalized regarding marrying young vs. marrying older, in general marrying young has advantages and many benefits.

130. When I read the comments of the older single girls who didn’t have a big ‘selection’ to choose from when they are young, and now are sitting at home waiting for calls, and are mostly getting unsuitable ones, my heart goes out for them. However, there is one choice, that seems the most obvious, that is not even on these people’s radars. I’m not blaming the individuals, because the system is obviously not set up for this, but I guess I am blaming the system. There is no reason why ‘older’ singles, let’s say from 25 and up, who know what they want, have dated many people and are simply looking to get married should have to wait around for others to remember them! Why can’t they go out and have single’s events and meet others in their situation? Why can’t the weddings of their friends who get married older have mixed seating so the friends of the chatan and kallah can talk and meet people? The fact that they are sitting home crying and waiting is very sad, but why doesnt the system allow for these girls (and boys!) to take some action of their own? These girls and guys are going to have to actually speak to each other at some point- why can’t there be a setting where they can choose someone to go over to and start a conversation with? Not only will this facilitate many more marriages, especially with older singles who are mature and know how to carry a conversation with a member of the opposite sex, but it will allow the older singles to not have to sit around waiting, and let them take some action of their own.

131. to #117, rebetzin, if u read #25’s comment again about the 200 girls, you’ll see HE is the one looking for SOMETHING SPECIAL, he said it, not I, that all the girls in sem are told to fill out a form and they’re all the SAME, he’s looking for someone to STAND OUT, and I’m insensitive???

132. I’m sure many of you remember reading a book as kids where after every page, the reader would be given a choice of scenarios: Example: Bob and Frank are walking in the forest and they come to a fork in the path; Frank wants to go to the left and Bob to the right. If they deicde to go to the left turn to page 20. So let’s say, they go to the left and after folowing all instruction they don’t get to thier destination-they are back where they started from. Let’s say they do this 3, 4, 5 or even 10 times. Wouldn’t you think they would say “Time to rethink our plan…Let’s go to the right this time”? Well, what do you know-they’re at their destination!

     What’s my point? Simple: You have a list of ‘must haves’ for your spouse. You’re 20 years old, fine. Stick with your list. Go out, meet the 10-40 people. But let’s say you’ve been doing that and now you are 25 or 26 or more. The ‘best boy’ or ‘best girl’ from whereever hasn’t appeared. Maybe it is time to rethink your non-negotiables. Maybe just maybe, the person you are meant to marry has just a few of your specs, s/he has great middos, a nice personality, a decent job and is well liked. S/he just has a few chesroinos, well my friend- SO DO YOU!!!

     I married off 2 children last year. One had been divorced and B”H, he is married. My wonderful daughter-in-law probably wanted the ‘best’ whatever when she was 22. Now she says she got the best of everything. So, he is working instead of learning full time, but he has everything that counts! And he is a wonderful, husband, son, son-in-law, brother, brother-in-law and uncle!

     THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX!!! You will be surprized at how your choices will open up and your future will be brighter that you imagined!!

     I am mispallel that all singles out there will soon be zoche to meet their bashert and build a beautiful bayis ne’eman b’Yisroel, a binyon adei ad, l’shem u’litiferes.

133. A friend of mine was involved in a shidduch, one of the questions asked was which Kah Ribon was sung at the shabbos table, the heimeshe one or the yeshivisha one because that in essence defines the family. Another prospective shidduch wanted to know if the girl was a “scraper” or not.(when she clears off the table does she scrape off the foos at the table) please, parents for whom do you want a shidduch for yourself or your child. – Have Rachmanus

134. As children most of us readthe books in which you choose th ending. For the “less-read” amongst us what basically happens in such a book is that every few pages the reader makes a choice for the characters. Consider the following scenario:

     Moish and Yossi are in a long winding tunnel, when the tunnel forks. Yossi wants to go to the right, Moish to the left. The reader likes Moish because he seems to be a leader, while Yossi is a born loser. As luck will have it, No matter what choices the reader makes from then on he keeps coming back to the same place.

     This is nogeia to most older singles nowadays. We keep going around in circles and getting nowhere because of various preconceived notions.

     Note: The reader finally got his/her act together and followed Yossi.

     THE END

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136. There is no such thing as a yeshivisha Kah Ribon. It’s a Bobover niggun.

     And one more thing the majority of the kalte litvakkes in todays day and age shtam from hungary.

     GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!

137. Did anyone chap what chas/yesh said?

138. The many emotional responses show how this crisis is affecting many in the frum community’s nerves and general health, as parents, and hormones and satisfaction in life, as singles. May H-shem inspire all of us to have the Seichel to do whatever we can to ease the difficulties we are facing.

139. chas/yesh

     Can you please explain your post? What do you mean that most of the ‘Kalte litvacks stem from Hungary’?

     AND IF SO WHY ‘Get over yourselves’. Please , being from a Hungarian background, I am curious!

140. nameless, are you kalt or a litvak?

141. As a former alter bochur (I got married when I was close to 31), I thought I would share my story. I was not picky- my dumper-dumpee ratio was about 10%-90%. There were girls I wasn’t sure about, but didn’t want to say no because I didn’t want to say no to my bashert. I also acted like a mentch on every date even if I though the girl wasn’t for me, since I didn’t want to get a bad rep. Such was the advice given to me by my Rabbeim, and I followed it even though I often felt like I was wasting my time and money by continuing with a girl I was almost certain wasn’t for me.

     One day one of my shadchanim set me up with a girl who was totally not for me (different places religiously and intellectually). I acted like a mentch anyway, and she dumped me but set me up with her friend through the shadchan. After the first date. After the first date with her friend I was almost positive she wasn’t for me, but I continued anyway since I didn’t want to break something up until I was sure.

     After our third date, she wasn’t happy with something I said. She spoke to a friend of the family’s ( a shadchan for older singles who also acts as an advisor). The advisor pointed out to her that her reasons for wanting to dump me were the types of reasons that cause girls to be 35 and single, and that they weren’t deal breakers.

     Bottom line- we’re both happily married with kids.

142. What I mean is. So many “litvishe” girls believe that a “chassidishe” bochur is not for them. What I’m saying is, does it really make a difference if your bashert buys a $200 Borsalino and 2 $400 suits a year or a $2000 dollar shtreimel once every 20 years. Your not a real Litvak!! very few people are!! Why is the chitzoiniyus such a tremendous issue?

     The other half of my comment was to show that there is NO SUCH THING as a “yeshivishe” nigun!

143. Coming from someone who is 25 and single…Can’t we all just commit to trying to make things better? Enough with the complaining that this one’s picky or that one’s picky or pretending to understand why shidduchim are the way they are.

     WE are not Haskodosh Baruch Hu…HE is the only one who knows. Let’s try to think like #111 — think of a couple of singles you know and even if you don’t know anyone for him/her — be his/her’s FRIEND! That’s all they can ask.

144. Jos,

     neither one, read my post . I said I have a Hungarian lineage,

145. nameless

     Get in touch with it!

146. namel, It was asked in jest.

     It seemed so kalt of you to take it so seriously. Are you sure you are no litvak… 😉

147. Joseph,
     Get real! you obviously havent been reading my posts thoroughly enough. Go to the blog about the Satmaree Rebbe in Israel , read my last post and then tell me I’m A litvack!

148. namel, take it easy! Let me spell it out this time:

     I W-A-S- K-I-D-D-I-N-G.

149. I’m cognizant of that Jos’, no prob!

150. DEAR EDITOR:

     Can we perhaps have a permanent section where Shadchanim post their names and numbers? Many would be helped. Thanks.

151. While most of us today do have Chassidish blood, every Chossid was a Litvak before they started following A Rebbe. So we are just being machazir atarah leyoshnah. 🙂

152. Hungarians were never “Litvish”. The Chasam Sofer ZY”A was not at all chassidish but chassidish is alot closer to him than litvish.

     200 years ago we all looked alike. Short suits etc. were allowed to begin with only to protect from the haskala movement.

153. The Chasam Sofer was NOT closer to Chassidish at all. Oiberlender and litvacks had similar Minhagim. For instance, they ate ‘gebrokst’ on Pesach. In fact the Ch’S ate kneidlich on the first seder night. Today , many of his descendants are Chassidish and will NOT eat gebrokst at all!

     The Nodah B’yehudah was also not Chassdish but many of his grandchildren are.

154. I never meant to imply that the Chasam Sofer was chassidish. Oiberlender and Litvisher have NOTHING in common with the exception of Boruch Sheamar and Nekadeish. Not eating gebrokts is no only by chassidim. It’s more of a regional thing like whether to sit or stand by kiddush Shabbos day. Havoro is also a regional thing, not like some amaratzim who believe that the Baal Shem Tov made up a new one. He most likely davened with a litvishe havoro like karlin, slonim and chabad.

155. If and when all the brightest minds among us (and we have many) will combine their talents with those that have the deepest wallets among us (Askonim, and we have many), then we’ll have some Menuchas Hanefesh with this issue. Tougher problems have been solved in the past, or at least eased, than finding Shidduchim.