(This letter appeared in the Yated) Dear Editor, As an active member of Hatzolah, but not speaking on behalf of any Hatzolah branches or volunteers, I would like to suggest a topic that would benefit many frum communities, especially outside of New York where Hatzolah has expanded to in recent years. These include communities such as Passaic-Clifton, Elizabeth, Baltimore, Waterbury, and other locations overseas as well.
On many of the calls that we respond to on Shabbos, the patient, family members and bystanders often do not know the basic halachos of pikuach nefesh as they apply on Shabbos, nor do they comprehend why we do certain things that may seem to be unnecessary and/or blatant chillul Shabbos, while, in fact, they are in full accordance with the Shulchan Aruch and other seforim that discuss these halachos.
These issues include, but are not limited to, carrying radios on Shabbos; using radios on Shabbos; driving to and from a call (in some places); melachos de’oraysa and derabonon that are transgressed for patient care in cases of sakonas nefashos or sofek sakonas nefashos; dechuyah vs. hutrah; Rav Moshe Feinstein’s teshuvos regarding radios and returning from calls; what is considered sofek pikuach nefesh and what is mamish pikuach nefesh, sakonas eiver or makoh shel chalal; and differences in infants, children, adults and me’uberes with regard to the different levels of choleh b’Shabbos. These are just a few of the topics that could be discussed. Maybe an entire series could be dedicated to this topic.
Another phenomenon that is simply baffling is when people call Hatzolah on Shabbos, with no intention of letting us transport the patient to a hospital, if we deem it to be necessary. They tell us, “We can’t go to the hospital; it’s Shabbos.” Guess what? You called us and it’s Shabbos for us, too. People need to be taught that if, chas veshalom, they need to call Hatzolah on Shabbos (or any other day), they must listen to our advice.
We are trained to recognize problems that may not be as obvious to the untrained family member. If we say that the patient needs to be transported, please don’t fight with us!
There are many well-qualified rabbonim who write halachic articles for the Yated and would be able to write about these topics. Although some Shabbos protocols differ for different branches of Hatzolah, the basic rules are the same.
The Aruch Hashulchan at the beginning of Siman Shin Chof Ches brings the famous halacha that kol hashoel, whoever questions what we are allowed to do with regard to a choleh who may or may not be in a sakana on Shabbos, is ke’ilu shofech domim. If I recall correctly, the Aruch Hashulchan brings a Yerushalmi with a different girsa: The nishal (i.e. the rov who the patient or patient’s family goes to ask) is ke’ilu shofech domim, because he should have taught the proper halachos and avoided the wasting of time.
We see that the rabbonim have a chiyuv to educate the masses regarding these halachos.
What better vehicle can there be to do this than the Yated Ne’eman?
Thank you in advance.
A Hatzolah Member
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18 Responses
This topic is worthwhile to be tackled by community rabbis and spoken about in shuls and in a lecture series.
I think a far better, more effective, and appropriate forum is through Shiurim, where (hopefully) qulaified morei horaah will explain their positions and people can ask the Rav what they don’t understand.
These halacahos are complex and — in the case of Hatzalah members who are responding to calls — based on their training, knowledge, and perception of the situation.
Even within Hatzalah, the poskim of different neighborhhods take sometimes widely divergent positions, even when the two neighborhoods are both supposedly relying on Rav Moshe.
Yes, I am a member. Yes, I know the blatant am haaratzus. But no, the Yated (or this website) are not the place for this.
classic tachlisdik post by yw
i have a family member on hatzolah, and he says how terrible it is, how people use hatzolah as car services on shabbos. they call in that their wife is having a baby -EMERGENCY!- hatzolah comes rushing in on shabbos, and there they sit with their bags packed, and say ‘well her doctor is in xyz hospital and so we want to go there’. well, in that case, why didnt you call a non-Jewish car service which could have done the same thing instead of making a Jew do it?! i think people dont realize that #1 hatzolah guys are frum Jews who like to keeping shabbos just as you do, and #2 they also have a life, and if its not an emergency, dont call them!
Trying to educate eveyone about all the pratim involved in these shailos can be a disaster. Every klutz who listened to a shiur with half an ear will become his own posek and argue about it with hatzolah members creating a problem worse than what they have already. I think people should be taught “listen to the Hatzolah member” and that’s it.
Few of us, if any, have not been directly helped by the tireless efforts and self sacrifices of Hatzolah members. Their outstanding courage and commitment to their community is beyond words. They deserve our support in any way possible as we are obligated to express our gratitude and appreciation for all their work.
Indeed, everyone should be well versed in hilchos Shabbos both to avoid “shfichas domim” and unnecessary chilul Shabbos. When not possessing that knowledgeable, we should / must at lest place our faith in the trained EMT, no less so than the faith we place in our doctor.
It is true many have wrongly hesitated to go to the hospital, call a doctor, 911, or hatzolah, placing their child, spouse, parent, or neighbor in life-threatening danger. (Even some types of fractures can lead to internal bleeding — v’hamaivin yavin.)
On the other hand the sight of three or four (VAS or EMT) cars and one or more “buses” reaching the scene of a simple side-walk fall, where perhaps EMS has already arrived and where the patient is not even Jewish raises a number of issues.
True, we need to be educated to know when to call and when not to call. However, dispatchers and responders also need to be educated to know where sofek pikuach nefesh ends and choleh sh’ein bo sakanah begins or where darkei shalom / eivah ends and where chillul Shabbos begins.
Any program focused on educating the recipients of Hatolah’s tremendous chesed, must include the reeducating of the wonderful Hatzolah volunteers. The “different Shabbos protocols” mentioned in the Yated article, I believe, are based on this very problem of overused, misunderstood, or self-applied heterim for chillul Shabbos.
How come Artscroll doesnt come out with a book on this topic??
just to say also a tremendous yasher koach to all the hatzolah members and all that they do. i was hit by a car when i was a teen (B”H i didnt suffer any long term injuries) and hatzolah was the first one at the scene; before the police, fire, and other medics showed up. they are amazing in what they do, and i dont think they get enough thank yous.
#3. “Even within Hatzalah, the poskim of different neighborhoods take sometimes widely divergent positions, even when the two neighborhoods are both supposedly relying on Rav Moshe.”
These differences in protocol apply to the Hatzolah members as to, what to do or, not do in different neighborhoods. Additionally, members usually are required to take refresher “Shabbos Shiurim” on a somewhat regular basis. This keeps the halachos fresh in their minds & prevents unnecessary chillul shabbos.
I think the letter writer’s primary focus is to educate the PUBLIC which, for the most part, the Halachos of Sakanos Nefashos on Shabbos are universal & don’t change from different Hatzolah areas. Knowing the halachos would prevent instances touched upon by #5.
Al pi Halacha it seems that we need to listen to Hatzolah because they are EMT’s; not because they are poskim.
While we can question (if we must) Hatzalohs organizational policies, they do not seem to have much bearing on acute emergencies.
The point is that bimokom sakana it is not wise to argue with a professional.
shuali – Hatzola protocol usually dictates that only one responder goes on shabbos and calls for backup if necessary.
as pointed out by others, Hatzolah members are well versed and instructed in the halchos that apply to them. The instruction to the public is to call when necessary, don’t call for frivolously, and trust and listen to the Hatzolah member who responds.
As an aside, I was once in a shul that had many doctors of various specialties among its congregants. An older man once collapsed and they were all treating him. When Hatzolah arrived they all, as one, stood back and allowed Hatzolah to take over. I asked one of them, a cardiologist, why he did so seeing as they were EMTs and he was a real doctor. He explained to me that they were trained to deal with emergencies much more effectively than regular doctors.
1. unfortunately, people do tend to usde hatzalah as a car service
2. the record (1-1/2 hours; before the days of hatzolah and before cell phones) for driving from camp (at the far end of the catskills) to ny is held by mw, who drove his wife to maimonides on fri nite to give birth. when i asked why not another hospital, i was told that a: you take your wife to where she is most comfortable, etc, which was maimonides and b: harris hospital is a sakonas nefashot.
3. not all hatzalah’s are emt’s. but they are professionals.
in new jersey, only those in the hospital suv’s are paramedics; hatzalah’s are just well trained med’s. but you still listen to them re: treatment, hospital choices, and halacha.
4. the aruch hashulchan was known as a machmir, yet he seems to be maykil here.
on the other hand, the story of the beis halevi (the brisker, not the berdichever) that spoon fed sick people in the hospital on yom kippur. when asked why is he doing it so fast, not waiting “k’dei achilat pras” he said he is machmir on “hatzalat nefashot”.
This looks like a good forum for thanking Hatzoloh: I called you twice in the past year or so- the first time you showed up within seconds(!!), the second time within minutes. Both times, the volunteers were compassionate, professional, and great with kids!
My father was a Hatzoloh member, and I know those calls don’t come at the most convenient moments: right after Hamotzi at a Shabbos seuda, during your Shabbos nap, on your way home from work, etc.
tzvika – “Hatzola protocol usually dictates that only one responder goes on shabbos and calls for backup if necessary.”
I have only the greatest respect and gratitude for all Hatzolah does. I would not hesitate to call them on Shabbos. However, I have NEVER seen only one responder on a Shabbos call AND I HAVE seen chillul Shabbos for someone who was in no apparent danger when EMS was also on the scene.
This is why I call for a review of hilchos Shabbos for Hatzolah members and, in general, for a hischazkus in the inyan.
I lived in a community (“out of town”) in which the Rov learned hilchos refuah b’shabbos between Kabbolos Shabbos and ma’ariv every Shabbos. When we asked him why he learned such seemingly obscure matters (going through the sefer, we covered such matters as lancing boils), rather than bishul b’shabbos, which most people encounter on a more regular basis. His response: “If someone is injured and worsens on Shabbos because the community did not the halachos of what they could and could not do on Shabbos with regard to medical care, the Rov is held responsible for not having taught them. So, that is why I teach these halachos every week.”
To Shauli
Shame on you.
I know of a case where hatolah was called (on a Tuesday)they insisted the women go to the hospital, over the family’s protests. She turned out to have a leaking stomach. Point is anythng these angels say is at the very least a sofek pikuach nefesh.
On the other hand the sight of three or four (VAS or EMT) cars and one or more “buses” reaching the scene of a simple side-walk fall, where perhaps EMS has already arrived and where the patient is not even Jewish raises a number of issues.
What are you talking about.! Do you think they knew what was on scene before they arrive? Or would you rather whenever there is a shabbos call, someone strolls over to see if it is a real emergency? Have a bit of hakoras hatov for my friend and his gang who jump up from their hot cholent while you sit on Bilam’s donkey.
One last point. don’t assume they care any less about shabbos then you do.
Yated Responds via Halacha Talk.
See this week’s edition on Page 38 for a well-written response to the letter.
Editor- Do you have the e-mail text version of Yated so you can post it on top?