Sources tell Yeshivaworld, that the world-famous Mordechai Ben David has cancelled his plans to sing at two concerts in Eretz Yisroel – scheduled for this coming Sunday and Monday – following a Kol Koreh signed by leading Gedolim.
In addition, there was a concert scheduled for this evening by Bentzion Shenker which cancelled at the last minute as well.
It is interesting to note, that a 10,000 seat concert – starring two major singers – took place this evening despite the Kol Koreh. (Click on Kol Koreh to read)
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85 Responses
I humbly submit to the daas of the Gedolim. However, I would like to know what the issur is based on.
Is it al tismach Yisroel el gil coamim?
Is it ossur leodom lemaleh schok piv beolom hazeh?
To YW Editor,
As I emailed over to you today, the people involved in these concerts are fully torah observant frum people. They wouldnt all act without consent from their Rabbanim. Therefore youre last line “It is interesting…” is Lashon Hara and should be reworded or deleted.
And on a seperate note, im curious, does this mean this singer will never perform another concert or just wont perform at this one in Eretz Yisrael?
also interesting to note is that while there are many gedolim who have signed this kol koreh there are many others who havent notably posek hador maran Ovadia Yosef.
Does anyone know of any rabbis who allow jewish concerts if done in accordance with halachic separation laws?
Is this story accurate?
I don’t think BenTzion Shenker has given concerts for quite awhile now. (Due to health reasons.)
What is really interesting is that these rabonim have been against these concerts from day one and nobody gives a hoot.
I am happy that MBD has finally seen the light and takes to heart what rabonim say. When will the rest follow?
Congratulations to MBD for havng done what is right, despite the predictable contempt for his actions by some.
Daas Torah is first, everything else is secondary.
I also humble myself to the Gedolim and also would like/need to know what is the reasoning behind it.
Also I’d like to know who organized the Kol Korah,why so late etc.
If someone in the know could explain I think we would all be very happy-thanks
Bottom line is Motcha is still the king. Now more than ever.
Yechi 🙂
WHEN I SING THE GEDOLIM ARE QUITE,
To #3 — The Kol Koreh clearly says even when separated.
To #7 — It is not so late. Our Gedolim have said and publicized this before. They are simply repeated it.
Some suggestions as to the reason(s):
1) It is not tznius to perform in that fashion
2) Even if the seating is separate, the function allows for unnecessary and unhealthy mixing before and after the concert
3) The performers become idolized
4) Music after the churban in general especially when not in the context of a simchah shel mitzvah is far from a clear-cut issue.
5) During these days especially — the days of ka’as between the 17th of Tamuz and Rosh Chodesh Elul are arguably not the proper time for such kalus rosh. (I am not talking in the context of a Kiruv Shabbaton / Melave Malka or similar situation.)
6) In light of the far too many recent tragedies, we should be focused on loftier endeavors.
Does anyone have inside information to indicate that this kol koreh is genuine? How do the Gedolim normally put out their announcements?
Lipa – and when you spell (quite) the gedolim are dumbfounded, astounded, flabbergasted and amazed!!!
at least in Lakewood we can listen ‘One Oh Shwekey Point Nine’!! AKA 107.9
Clarification on Shenker. Quote from Ynet:
“The edict took effect as early as Thursday when a concert in honor of 82-year-old cantor Ben-Zion Shenker at the Wohl Center in Ramat Gan was canceled.”
This is an old edict.
New generation has a different mindset, then the babyboomers.
Gee where have I been all these years. If the gedolim have been against it all the time, why have there been concerts going on for decades now? Or is it only in America? Does that mean that in America it is still mutar?
I guess it’s a good thing I don’t like going to concerts anyway.
Well, I spoke to Ben Zion Shenkker’s brother yesterday morning, as well as with the Modzis Chazan from their Shul in Tel Aviv, and I don’t know exactly how accurate your information is here, as they both said that the concert is next Thursday night, not last night.
I’m surprised that they said “here is our Daas, Daas Torah”. That seems a bit forward, when it’s kind of obvious that they are Daas Torah. Why did they need to say that?
Also, why not write the reason? Is this Issur because of Chodesh Av? Is this applicable to Yerushalayim? Eretz Yisrael? The world? During Av? Always?
How come I’ve never seen anything like this in the likes of Yated and Hamodia before if it’s already known that all the gedolim assur it beIssur gamur?
I’m confused.
Kudos to MBD and R’ Shenker, though.
Hakatan, in the first paragraph of the pesak it states that these concerts are taruvos. Even with seperate seating. Thats good enough of a reason to me.
The reason why they continued with the concert and spat in the face of the rabonim is because it is a huge money making machine. The orginizers and the artists make tens of thousands of dollars so they feel that for parnassah anything is permitted no matter who says what. Shame on them.
The problem is in the US, why the rabonim don’t take a stand.
Does this mean that MBD will no longer do concerts? (We can only hope…)
Of did he only listen this one time?
I assume the Issur isn’t only for this week.
In the US the singers have concerts and they tzniusdik. Perhaps there is too much outside bad influence from the goyish modern “artists” (-ugh)There are many concerts that shul choirs also perform,and have been doing so for as much as 60 years or more,attended by respected rabbonim.More correct information should be given. Noisy and shtick stuff may be going too far,but regular singing in a decent way?why?
I can not believe my ears!! You call yourselves frum jews, yirei shamayim?!?! Where is your emunas chachomim?? The gedolei hador say something and you question if they are making a proper judgment? You NEED to know the reason? First do what they say, then ask your questions! NA’ASE V’NISHMA! Listen first, then question, isn’t that the way the follow the torah? O so your not going to follow what the gedolim say because YOU don’t understand? WHO ARE YOU?? I don’t care if your the biggest Rosh Yeshiva in the world, but who are you to oppose R’ Elyashiv and R’ Scheinberg and R’ Shteinman and the many others??? WHO do you think you are?? These are the gedolei hador we’re talking about, it’s not the guy that stands next to you in shul every morning and says Shema when he’s still half asleep!! DO YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?!?!!? #2(&3)- those gedolim are’nt good enough for you? It’s not valid unless R’ Ovadia Yosef is on it also? What are you saying? R’ Elyashiv isnt good enough? R’ Shteinman isn’t good enough? R’ Scheinberg isn’t good enough? Do you know how great these gedolim are? It’s only valid if every single gadol’s name is there, otherwise we don’t have to listen?? And what makes you think that just because the people involved are “fully torah observant frum people”, as you put it, that means that they asked their rabbanim?? I dont know about you but I know PLENTY of frum jews who do a lot of things without asking their rabbi. It’s NOT CONVENIENT for them to ask their rabbi! Their rabbi is going to tell them it’s assur, so why would they ask their rabbi?? You dont know frum jews who do things they shouldnt be doing!?!? Please!! I can give a whole long list of things frum jews do that they should not be doing, so being “FRUM” doenst mean that you are doing the right thing and doesnt mean that you asked your rabbi!! I dont know where you got that from!! #20 seems to have his head in the right direction, they do it because it makes money, they could care less what the gedolim have to say! They only go to gedolim when they need a bracha, then they respect the gedolim, but otherwise, forget it, they rather act as if they dont exist! What is wrong with all of you people?? Your gonna tell me you cant figure out why these concerts would be assur??? Firstly, it’s a shame to even call the music these guys play “Jewish”, i still can’t figure out what is jewsih about them, except that they are full of pesukim and chazals, which is a total bizayon!! How can you take a posuk and sing it to that kind of music? The music is more goyish than ever?? Where is the jewsih part?? And you think gedolim are going to say that is ok?? And the way these people get up there and perform, that’s tznius? Thats the way a frum jew is sappose to behave? They look likes animals! And you think just because it’s seperate seating it’s kosher?? Please!! We ALL know what goes on at these concerts!! Don’t play stupid!! Give me a break!! Last week was tisha b’av, we cried and we mourned the destruction of the 2 batei mikdash as well as all the past tzaros of klal yisroel, and we prayed for moshiach. You think we are ready for moshiach?? We can’t even respect our gedolim!! The gedolim put out a kol korei and then WE decide if we want to listen?? Don’t you want to do the right thing? Don’t you want to be the best eved hashem possible?? Or are you just here to have a good time? Cuz if you are, your in the wrong religion or at least terribly misguided. Do you think these concerts are what Hashem wants? You think Hashem is looking down and smiling, or are their tears rolling down his cheeks? And I’m not saying you have to sit and say tehillim all day, not at all, halivay we should be on that madreiga, everyone needs to relax and everyone needs downtime, but there are boundries and the gedolim have stated that these concerts have crossed the boundries. LISTEN to the gedolim!! They know what they’re talking about! You want moshiach- act like your ready for him to come!! And it shouldn’t be the biggest shock to everyone that some people did listen to the kol korei! THATS WHAT THEY ARE SAPPOSE TO DO!! The gedolim don’t make these kol koreis because they’re bored, or in their free time, they don’t have that!! They act when there is a serious problem going on in the Jewish community and we are meant to listen to them. Why do u think they are here?? So you can go to them for a bracha? Or when you have a sheila? That’s not it!! They are here to guide us and to tell us how to properly live our lives, EVERY asspect of out lives!! I am shocked that I am hearing these kind of comments from “frum” jews!! Klal yisroel is going through a lot of tzaros now, a few days dont pass without hearing about another tragedy, what are we doing because of this?? What are we as a Jewish community doing to try to strengthen ourselves?? Elul is coming up really soon, and then is Rosh Hashana, are we ready? Are you really being the best jew you can be? Ask yourself that question- and make sure you get an honest answer because otherwise only you will suffer. WHERE HAS OUR YIRAS SHOMAYIM GONE????
If before everyone starts jumping with the comments, one will take a minute to actually read the kol koreh, you will see why they assered it! Its nothing new. The rabbonim & yeshivos were always against concerts, but gave some leeway to the non-mixed ones on chol hamoed, etc.
The problem which bothers the Gedolim from what I understand is the mingling before and after the concerts. Therefore concerts may be allowed for a men or women only audience.
Eved26, I think naase v’nishma applies to hashem. If hashem told me to sacrifice my son, I would do it. If one of the gedolim told me to without reason, I would not. Not that we should not listen to them, but we are allowed to want to understand the reasoning behind their decisions.
In terms of mingling: Can’t mingling occur in any public space, like a restaurant, a park, after or before teffila? How is a concert any different?
I know this is “Yeshiva World” news and I applaud those who are being consistent and following the edicts of the gedolim who promulgate their daas Torah. But please be reminded that this is the Daas Torah of those Torah Jews who have submitted themselves to this derech. B”H our Mesorah provides many legitimate paths to Hashem and Kedusha. So while this may well be your Daas Torah it is by no means THE Daas Torah. There are many, many good frum Jews who do not fall into the orbit of the Litvish Israeli Gedolim. I say this because, as is often the case, some more “Zealous” in the Yeshiva World will inevitably use this as a license to attack the actions of those of us who follow another Daas Torah.
The chiddush here is not that G’dolim forbade concerts – the chiddush is that it’s taken this long(decades!) for the G’dolim to give a public p’sak on the very sorry state and lowly status of the “Jewish music industry”. In fact, I’m convinced there was never any heter in the first place.
C’mon, all of you – wake up! Did you really think this was all an experience in ruchnius, or did your neshama do a double take(like mine did) when you witnessed the following:
1. A chasidishe looking man on stage, gyrating his hips in a very suggestive and non-tznius way, while singing some of our most hallowed verses from Tanach.
2. Research that verifies that so many of the catchy nigunim that we all like to sing and to hear at weddings were actually stolen from Greek, German, Italian, and South American performers – some of them so vile and depraved, you just wouldn’t believe it.
3. Jewish tabloids, available just about anywhere where there are Jews, that carry full page ads hawking concerts, albums, DVDs, personal appearances, autograph sessions, and backstage passes to meet – TA DA! – the performer. Aren’t we supposed to reserve that sort of reverance and kovod for our Torah giants? Which leads me to my next point….
4. Except for the Siyum Hashas, I never saw 15,000 Jews willing to line up and pay $50 – $250 per ticket(are you kiddin’ me?) to see a Gadol deliver an inspiring shiur or an enlightening lecture. Yet people are perfectly happy to do this every Chol HaMoed for concerts.
5. It is also widely known that among the performers themselves, there is much deceit, questionable business practices, anymosity, back-stabbing, and some very immoral behavior. I’ll leave it at that.
6. Did you know that there have been certain performers or groups that have actually lip-synced during the past several HASC concerts? Imagine forking over $1800 for a front row seat to hear a recording. HASC is a wonderful program, and this, by no means, should reflect badly on them. But for the performers, is this how an erliche Yid should be?
To Eved26 – Emunas Chachamim means believing in our Gedolim, not believing that every templated letter that comes out is actually what the Gedolim said. Don’t be so naive. I’m not even sure that half these Gedolim knew about this latest “Takana”.
Na’ase Ve’Nishma? We said that to Hashem about the Torah. Please don’t ever equate a Kol Koreh with Ma’ase Har Sinai.
Music is more Goyish than ever? If this is the case, you have never heard a Jewish song in your life. EVERY SINGLE NIGGUN is completely influenced and infused with the outside cultures. Being old or popular for 50 years does not “kasher” it. Do you think that in 50 years people should say that “The Chevra” have a very Yiddeshe Ta’am?
It is great to be an Eved HaShem. Please don’t confuse HaShem with a bunch of posters plastered around town.
See Halachos Tisha B’Av (OH simon 560 sif 3)
Concerts nowadays are large scale mindling.
By the way about 70 years ago Chazon Yosele Rosenblatt made a concert in Yerushulyim. It is told that Reb. Eliashuv felt that her husband was very much worked out learning and needed a break. She knew that he enjoyed Chazaniss and bought him a ticket. As he was planing to go, he decided that he it would for him bitul torah and it wasn’t worth going.
To #27 – the Gerer Rebbe and the Belzer Rebbe, both Shlita, are signed on the Kol Koreh. It is not ONLY a “Litvishe” psak.
>There are many, many good frum Jews who do not >fall into the orbit of the Litvish Israeli >Gedolim.
Can think of any kol korei that Rav Elyashiv Shlita signed that the chassidishe oilam did not follow?
>I say this because, as is often the case, some >more “Zealous” in the Yeshiva World will >inevitably use this as a license to attack the >actions of those of us who follow another Daas >Torah.
Another Daas Torah? The lenient version? the kitzur kitzur shulchan orech? The readers digest condensed Rambam? Those that consistantly try to get out serving Hashem by always seeking the most lenient (and not always unuvesally accepted opinion) Usually are not those people that I would say really give a hoot about Daas Torah. I find no problem with the prohibition and even if the concert was not mixed crowd (seperate seating) I find a concert in Yerushalayim in the shadow of the churban in very bad taste, specifically in light of the what Shulchan Orech says in Orech Chaim siman 560. For some reason when the subject comes up I keep thinking about the mixed dancing to live Music in Jerusalem in the Versailles Hall.
Mkedrezz and eved 26 – Kol Hakavod. About time someone spoke out against these so called “jewish” concerts.
I was involved in organising one of these charity concerts many years ago, and even then I said I would never be involved or go to one again.
And the music and actions of then was mild compared to what goes on today at these concerts.
Boruch Hashem the Gedolim have made an issur – let us listen to our Gedolim and not just to ask for a brocho for parnossoh, children etc. Listen to them always and we will automatically have bricho in our homes
eved26 – CHILL OUT. as msl613 pointed our there are many daas torah. Unless you personally know every singer who sings in these type of concerts then you just spoke lashon hara about every one of them. You think if their Rabbis didnt allow it they wouldnt tell them that its asoor? I know my Rebbe would. Daas Torah includes many many different factions and all must be respected. Sinat chinan is a major reason why we are living in galut today.
Sephardim like myself must eat bet yosef meat. Should I question an ashkenazic jew as to why he doesnt and shamble him saying the bet yosef the gadol olam said you have to eat bet yosef. NO BECAUSE THERE ARE DIFFERENT OPINIONS. Just as some sects feel the need to wear white shirts and black suit, and others dont. shibim panim latorah.
and by the way R Moshe Feinstein was known to allow concerts if separate like the one that just took place if proceeds were for tzedaka. Now im not saying this one was for tzedaka , i dont know if it was or wasnt, but the very fatc that the GADOL allowed it in certain instances should be enough to make you calm down a little bit. and by the way , maybe a frum jew doesnt ask his rebbe when to go to the bathroom and when not to but i dont know too many frum jews who wouldnt be TERRIFIED of defying a kol koreh signed by such gedolim like r elyashiv and r shteinman unless they had heterim from other gedolei torah.
To all those who are so worried about what the gedolim say (and are not at work)…….. The gedolim asured the internet!
Eved26, Yasher Koach. You’ve restored Kavod Hatorah and K’vod shomayim. Everybody else, if you’d like the source, it’s in Shulchan Aruch right after Hilchos Tisha B’av. It’s assur to listen to music anywhere other than at a simcha. The heter to listen on tapes, cds is because it’s not the same thing, and it’s in order to get chizuk.
When Miami Boys Choir was coming to Los Angeles last year and my kids were begging me to go, I asked the 2 biggest rabbonim in the city, and they said it was assur. I asked how then could they make this concert. One posek raised his hands with a look of “what can we do?”, the other posek said that perhaps if there’s chizuk in torah and Yiras Shomayim, there’s a heter. Unfortunately, many songs of Jewish music nowadays don’t leave you feeling inspired afterwards. I didn’t go. You ask your own posek.
By the way, if anybody would pasken that it’s assur, it would be Rav Ovadia Yosef. According to us Sephardim who follow the mechaber, there is a much weaker heter to listen to music even on tape. See what R’ Ovadia writes in Yalkut Yosef by the laws of the 3 weeks.
Yasher koach to MBD for having the gevurah to lose plenty of money to listen to the gedolim.
I’m not sure Eved26 can hear any of you. I believe it will take him at least a week to catch his breath after that amazingly long diatribe, (replete with an amusing number of badly misspelled and misused words). Didn’t all the Gedolim say that it is important to get at least a minimal proper English education while living amongst English-speaking people?
Eved26, why haven’t you listened to your Gedolim?!! Why have you not gotten a proper English education?!! It’s a Shanda, a Cherpa!! 🙂
TO ALL PEOPLE SUBMITTING COMMENTS:AS IS THE POLICY OF THIS WEBSITE SINCE ITS INCEPTION, THERE WILL BE NO COMMENTS POSTED WHICH QUESTION THE P’SAK OF LEADING POSKIM, GEDOLIM & REBBES.
DO NOT SUBMIT THEM, AS THEY ARE INSTANTLY DELETED.
Does the psak also apply in Chutz Laaretz? The kol koireh makes no mention of Yerushalayim, etc.
This comment thread is starting to look like Pinny’s letter to the editors(the ones that he makes up)
What bothers me is that one of the “singers” that went ahead with the concert anyway, is seen in one of his “music videos” with Rav shtainman, Rav Scheinberg shlita and other gedolim. If he has his own daas torah, why then did he go to these rabonim? It seems a little bit of a contradiction to me.
If you look at the names signed, You’ll find the Gerrer Rebbe, Belzer Rebbe and Rav Wosner, none of whom can be accused of being “Israeli Litvishe Gedolim”
To Eved26:(comment23 aka “the big one”)
Regarding your comments of “naaseh v’ nishma”, if you read your own comment then why are you on the internet? Just bec. some gedolim in lakewood said not to use the internet, thats not good enough for you?!?! You should listen and then ask later, so what if they arent “your Gedolim”, they widely respected and accepted talmidei chachamim! So go cut your dsl line right now!
Not to knock you off your pedestal #28 since you do have some very good points, however you write that “research that verifies”
i beg to differ. you cannot come up with more than 5 examples, times that by the countless cds that get released by gosh-knows how many performers each year, and your research is hogwash, if in fact there was any research.
look at the alternative, its either a little up-tempo music for many, or sadly goyish which is a whole diff spectrum.
Eved26
Did you ever learn in Yeshivos? Are you aware of the natural curiosity why they paskened so? In addition to the fact that these Kol Koros were never in America or very quiet at least, one would like to know if this is Meyuchod for Eretz Yisroel or they are allowing for the Rabbonim here to decide
It has never been a secret that the gedolim have never approved of these concerts, both from a Halacha standpoint and from a Hashkafah standpoint. If I am not mistaken all the concerts in EY were always held out of Yerushalyim, usually in Tel Aviv. MBD used to hold concerts in Chevron, Gaza, etc (not exactly Chareidi strongholds).
I imagine that the idea of having a concert for 10,000 in Yerushalyim Ir HaKodesh prompted this strong Kol Koreh.
I think one must realize the severity of this issue just by the ones who signed this Kol Koreh. Not many such Kol Korehs have such a list of the undisputed Gedolei HaDor from both the Litvishe and Chassideshe communities.
Thanks YW for posting it.
i meant #27 sorry
are they goint to Assur those Chol Hamoed in Chevron concerts too?
Whatever the reason the Gedolim gave to assur, one never loses by listening to them. Even if we can’t understand their reasoning – that doesn’t make it right to knock a p’sak. In the z’chus of listening to Gedolim, may Mosiach come & then we’ll hear true music!!!
I remember me growing up 20 years ago my father always telling me ” why are you listening to this rubbish”. Today I am telling my kids, ” why are listening to this garbage, you call this music?”
I dread to think what my grandchildren will be listening to .
Dvorah – I think having women giving concerts, even if only for women, is a tremendous pirtzah in Tznius. A lack of Tznius doesn’t only have to be in front of men.
I would say the same applies to plays and other events.
Kol Kevudah Bas Melech Penimah!
Dvora: That’s an interesting tshuva from Menashe Hakutan. I will, bl’n look it up later. How, though does he allow women to go to shul and hear male Baalei tefila?
The first time I ever heard that there is something wrong with going to Jewish Concerts, was when I was in camp several summers ago and the subject of concerts came up & I remember the “Out of Town” girls were saying something like its so weird that in NY you’re allowed to go concerts and we just didnt understand why not, and they explained in their communities it was “assured” or just not acceptable because of the hangout scene that takes place b4 & after the concerts, which is true, having gone to many concerts -there is a hangout scene b4 & after the concerts & e/o’s scanning the crowd to see who they know …Listen its not the end of the world to have concerts banned…you can arrange a beautiful kumzitz with inspiring slow songs which promotes a feeling of warmth & achdus & maybe that’ll be the new trend for fundraising now-to have tzedaka kumzitzes! have a great shabbos everyone- enjoy the shabbos zemiros!!!
destro613, I would not classify them as “bar songs”. They were tunes that were adapted from the countrys national anthem and patriotic songs. While we are on the discussion of where songs come from, let me let you in on a secret.
Yidden – taken from a German pop group from the 80’s.
The yiddish shabbos song from Just one shabbos- tune composed by Andrew Lloyd Weber
MBD daddy dear- from a TV show from the 1940’s
Michoel Streicher Kol ma deovid- from a famous pop song called rasputin.
Michoel Streicher english Eretz Yisroel- taken from the same German group .
Avraham Fried dont hide from me- dunno but it sure does not sound jewish.
The point is these songs were taken from menuvolim and shkotzim whereas pre war Europe adapted tunes from marches and waltzes that were nationalistic tunes.
If you have any clue what goes at at, during, before, after and outside these concerts, y’all wouldn’t be so bust tummeling if they should e mutter or not. Znus is a pretty big isser.
No religious jew has ny business being there.
Guess what everyone? Visiting day is this Sunday. I’ve been in camps my whole life (a long time) and the hangout situation that takes place then is one of the worst because it’s a WHOLE day.
I have read this Kol Korei in the paper and i didn’t understand it, before i try to understand to read all your comments, it would be great if someone could at least explain it!
I feel like i am not the only one having trouble understanding it, bec. it not written in simple hebrew,
Thank You,
One more thing,
Where are the hand written signitures!?
It’s YODOOAH that a letter w/o a SIGNITURE is WORTHLESS
# 8 you make a very good point
I guess the price of cd’s will be going up another couple of bucks. Ah gutten Shabbos from radio Kol Bramah
To YW EDITOR:
Do you know for sure that both concerts have been cancelled. I heard that the concert is still going on?
If this is what they I say….I will follow & not go to future concerts (even tho’ I have been to maybe 3 concerts in the past 10 years).
My only question….does anyone ever get the sense that for some (many?) folks these concerts are a chizuk….make them feel stronger about being Jewish? Just wondering if there are any positive sides to these concerts.
shmuel99, I get a chizuk when I hear a shiur and I also get a chizuk when i hear beautiful davening on the yomim noraim. To go to these concerts one would only achieve kalus rosh.
mikedrezz – thanks for your reply. I am not really wondering if bnei Torah get chizuk from such concerts…..seems pashut that they can skip these concerts & live just fine.
I was referring to other Jews – less connected to learning, less connected/sensitive to why such a concert could be a problem.
many many years ago I got a hug chizuk out of going to the salute to Israel parade in NY. seeing so many Jews doing something in public etc. Of course, later in life I feel pretty far away from such an event but….I can’t deny that the parade did give me a big chizuk. (and BTW I actually found a flyer at the last one I went to in like 1984 which was advertising a Torah class which I ended up going to for the whole summer!) I became Shomer Shabbos less than 2 years later
Shmuel99 you are right again, concerts can be inspirational, full of geshmuck and a chizuk for many. Just have to adjust the surroundings to fit the spiritual high that it can produce.
I’ve taken many friends, associates and outoftowners to the salute to israel parade, and it helped to heighten their identity, and they were then ready for araachim seminar.
I think I was bit misunderstood- let me try again. I am not saying we shouldn’t find out if the Kol Korei is valid, OF COURSE we need to know if it’s legitimate, of course! And i’m not saying we shouldn’t try to understand what the gedolim’s reasoning is, of course we should seek to understand what they mean and what they want from us, but this attitude that when we hear something and we dont like the sound of it, and it doesn’t fit well with our lifestyle, and it’s not comfortable for us, we dismiss it immediately, and not only that, but we put down the gedolei hador. Thats what my point was. ac123, it’s very nice to see that u are a baki when it comes to the halachos of loshon haara, at least you got one thing straight. What is this about other da’as torahs?? Like matzahlocaol101 put it, which is that, the lenient one? The one that tells you what you want to hear so you can go ahead and do what you want and THINK your following daas torah? Is that what Yidishkeit is all about? Really? And i never said that because a song is old, that makes it ok, azoi iz, no, in 50 yrs The Chevra still wont have a Yiddeshe Ta’am, i agree with you. I was not trying to equate this kol korei with ma’amed har sinai, kas vishalom, my point was that before we jump to say this kol korei is invalid, we should look at it, examine it, try to understand what might have prompted it, try to look at what is going on in society now a days, dont be so quick to say its ridiculous. And yes, there are people that need these concerts, and everyone should ask their own individual shaila, I’m just saying we have to have a liitle more respect for our gedolim and we really have to look within ourselves to see it we are really being the best jew we can actually be. I’m not saying perfection, no one is perfect, but are we really trying out best? Ok, so I cant spell, i went to school for many many yrs and I got a good education, i just never learned how to sepll, what can you do? Who cares anyway, thats what spell check is for. And yes, I did get internet for my work, thats the only reason I have it, and then someone told me abt this site, so i decided to check it out, by thats not the point. I’m not perfect, I can’t say that I follow every single word of the gedolim to the exact degree, I’m not there yet, but I’m reaching for it. That’s what we have to do. We each need to serve Hashem on our own level, as you said, Shivim Panim La’Torah, but we need to stop trying to take the easy way out, stop fooling ourselves that we are frum jews, when in reality, many of us are fakers. Thats all I meant to say. Are you being the best Jew you could possibly be?? Think about it…
I would just like to apologize if i offended anyone, that was not my intention AT ALL, this is just a topic that i feel very stongly about, as you all have seen, so i might have gotten a bit carried away, and I apologize, but I think my point was clear. And yes, we all need to try to end the sinas chinum amoung ourselves, and we need to try to be more accepting of each other, each person on his own level where he is right now. And with that may we be zoche to see the coming of moshiach and the building of the bais hamikdash, along with the singing of the Levim, b’mihara v’yaneinu!!
From: matzahlocaol101
“Another Daas Torah? The lenient version? the kitzur kitzur shulchan orech? The readers digest condensed Rambam? Those that consistantly try to get out serving Hashem by always seeking the most lenient (and not always unuvesally accepted opinion) Usually are not those people that I would say really give a hoot about Daas Torah.”
You clearly have no concept of what Daas Torah is. Daas Torah is guidance from Rabbis in areas that are specifically non-halachic. But even in areas of strict halacha there are legitimate variations among Poskim.
NO DIFFERENT DAAS TORAH DOESNT MEAN A LENIENT ONE. IT MEANS EXACTLY WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE “DIFFERENT” RABBIS. SOME MAY BE STRICT ON SOME AREAS AND LENIENT ON OTHERS AND SOME MAY BE LENIENT ON SOME AND STRICT ON OTHERS.
The bottom line is that many people can get great chizuk from such things. You may not need it but others might. You may not think that chevra sounds yiddishe but to someone less observant than you are it may be the most religious sounding thing he has ever heard.
I am not saying that the rabbis who signed against this are wrong chas veshalom, i am just saying that many religious people were involved with the concert and to shamble people saying we need to pay more attention to our gedolim with an issue like this is outright LASHON HARA because you are inferring that the people in question have not consulted with their own halachic authorities. and once again before you write some dumb answer, that means “different rabbis” not “lenient ones”. unless someone on this site is a serious talmid hacham and gadol then i am going to assume we all know 0 compared to the gedolim. we just have to understand there is more than one and more than one opinion.
and MSL613 you have no clue what you are talking about. anyone who thinks there is only 1 opinion to something is living in a complete bubble. you think all the rebbes who signed this kol koreh agree on all issues? of course not. the next time they disagree on something ill remind you of your post that one who seeks different authorities than you doesnt give a hoot about daas torah.
ac123, as i said in post #71 I agree with you that for some people this what they need to hear and to them this music is Jewish, 100%! But I would not say that every person that goes to these concerts ask their rabbi beforehand. I personally know a nice number of people that went to these concerts and should not have, no, they did not ask their rabbi, those are the people i was talking about, not the people that asked their rabbi and got an ok, for them it’s 100% fine to go, kol hakavod, enjoy youself! I agree with you, there is more than one opinion, but are we looking for an easy way out? Thats my question.
act123,
I’m not sure what you think I said, but of course I agree with you. I’m pointing out davka that there is not only one opinion; whether it’s a straight halachic opinion or a more hashkafic daas Torah opinion. There is not one gadol, nor is there even one group of gedolim that everyone in the orthodox world looks to for halachic and hashkafic guidance.
Kol Hakavod to MBD! May others follow in his footsteps!
If someone is looking for trouble they will do it at a concert they will do it on visting day
eved and msl ,
i am glad we cleared that all up.
its just that im sick and tired of everyone shambling others on this site (im not saying you specifically but in general) , we all do it and its wrong. its asoor to create conflict as it automatically leads to lashon hara. in iggeret harambam the rambam writes to always view others in positive light and in a sense higher than yourself….
eved26: please respond to post 44
my comment was to thevoos
While I respect those of you who are happy about this, I am very saddened by it. People who want to mingle will do so. Kol Korehs can be issued left and right. Take away TV, internet, denim skirts, cell phones, Miami, concerts, etc… That won’t change anything. Those who are determined to behave inappropriately will find a way to do it. We should be reaching out and making following the proper derech appealing.
There are 1000’s of people who are enjoying each of these concerts and getting chizuk from them, there are many, many people learning Torah on the internet, doing Kibud Av V’aim with their cell phones, etc… yet the misbehavior of a few is all that is seen. When will we start adressing individual problems, and not blaming every ill of our society on innanimate objects.
I don’t profess to be holier than or know more than the gedolim by any stretch of the imaginaton, I am just speaking from my heart.
jdg, you forgot to include the heterim for TV, denim skirts and Miami.
I have come to the following conclusion. No one is going to convince the other that he is right and the other is wrong. No matter who is right. Its instilled in us that our opinion is right and the other is wrong. So why waste your time by trying to prove your point? You may feel passionate about an issue and you may be 100% correct but when you encounter another persons different view and try to convince him that your way is right and that his is wrong, he will never be convinced.
Please don’t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong in sharing your view. But when the arguing starts, thats where the time wasting starts.
So from now on I will respectively submit my opinion and if its countered I will B”N never bother refuting it because it will be a waste of my time. Good night to all.
sammy, jdg enlightened us already what the “heter” is for the internet.
Feivy L. I already responded to post #44
eved26
for a man like you who seems fully observant to use the internet is far worse than for someone who is on a lesser level to go to a concert perfromed by a jewish singer with separate seating and entrances , from which they may gain tremendous chizuk. So please look inside of YOURSELF and ask yourself if you are being the best jew that you can be. The internet is far more dangerous than a jewish concert with songs worded from tanach and tefillah.
I am not saying im perfect, but I didnt shamble the people who went to the concert, that was you. And please tell me how using internet for work purposes is less of a heter than going to a jewish concert
No offense ac123, but who are you to judge which is worse? And I did not mean to shamble the people that went to the concert, I don’t know what their cheshbonos are, who are I to judge them?, that wasn’t my point.
One again this has turned into a personal bashing and put-down, aka sinas chinum, from here on in I will no longer be submitting any comments, I think I said what I have to say, I don’t feel the need to defend my point of view, and I dont need to spell out for all of you what my cheshbonos are for having internet…And you know what, maybe your right, maybe I’m not being the best Jew I could be, thank you for that bit of mussar, I guess another cheshbon hanefesh is in order. Thank you. You just fulfilled the mitzvah of Hocheach tochiach as anisecha, congrats!
May Klal Yisroel be zoche to see many yeshuos in the near future!
amen
Its about time! It is clearly assur to sing psukim from the Torah period! How dare these singers claim to “write” a song when all they do is snatch a pasuk from the Torah like is their own personal muse and hum a tune to it and people foam at the mouth! Tznuis is pritzus at these events. Even if these concerts are men or women only they represent a form of entertainment that denegrates the Torah and trivializes ma’amrei chazal. Concerts are GOYISH innovations! Lets be clear about that. Internet and TV under the right circumstances and under proper supervision is a valuble educational tool.